Disease warning

[hcat]

On 4/5/2024 at 8:25 PM, 4shines said:

We sailed on the silhoutte in Dec. My husband and I both got very sick. Horrible body aches and respiratory symptoms shortness of breath and coughing.  Came on very fast. I was tested and flu and Covid both negative. I ended up with bacterial pneumonia. I was thinking some new virus. Never had body pain that bad before. 

hmm.. maybe that's what we ended up with after ASCENT..something new.  The body aches were very intense!  We used tylenol flu med..  ...It  lingered but luckily did not progress!

[broberts]

45 minutes ago, cruisestitch said:

Did you even read this?

 

it is NOT the flu, despite your assertion in post #10.

 

 

You must have me confused with someone else.

 

I posted the link because I am tired of reading mis and misleading information. Legionella is a pneumonia. It is a non trivial disease that may be deadly to some.

[cruisestitch]

1 hour ago, broberts said:

 

You must have me confused with someone else.

 

I posted the link because I am tired of reading mis and misleading information. Legionella is a pneumonia. It is a non trivial disease that may be deadly to some.

Sorry I did get the threads mixed up.  I need to stop posting before coffee 

[Georgia_Peaches]

4 hours ago, Cruisegirl6 said:

I am sorry but Legionnaires disease has been around since 1976 and it is from water, bacteria yes and it is not contagious.  Nothing to worry about.

While I agree with your carpe diem sentiment, and further concur that Legionnaires has been around for a while, and that it is not spread person-to-person, it CAN be very worrisome for high risk persons, ie. the elderly and pulmonary challenged.  Enough so that Celebrity saw fit to inform passengers on previous cruises as well as the one OP has posted about. Not sure why you object to other people's concerns about the risk, especially not knowing their individual story.  I pray you are grateful not to have such health worries!  Happy cruising! 😎

Edited April 7 by Georgia_Peaches

[TP Barney]

Just reading the comments on Legionnaires. We cruised on Ascent 18-27 May starting in Athens and disembarking in Barcelona. I have already shared a review.

My wife started to exhibit signs of Legionnaires within 3 days of leaving Ascent. She was admitted to Critical care in our local hospital for 3 days and respiratory ward for a further 2 weeks. She was very seriously ill and 10 weeks later is still struggling with the after effects of the pneumonia it caused. Please be aware this is no flu, 30 % of those who contract Legionnaires will not survive!

I can't prove that it was contracted on Ascent, however bearing in mind the recent history of this ship it is more than likely..

Celebrity don't even want to talk to me about it. The only contact I have had was with a customer relations official from Celebrity who in our conversation accused me of being ''too emotional''

I would like to reach out to other passengers particulary on this cruise, did anyone else experience the symptoms of pneumonis-sickness, delerium, trouble breathing- after the cruise? 

[Georgia_Peaches]

11 hours ago, TP Barney said:

She was admitted to Critical care in our local hospital for 3 days and respiratory ward for a further 2 weeks. She was very seriously ill and 10 weeks later is still struggling with the after effects of the pneumonia it caused

Praying for her continued recovery. 

[hcat]

On 4/5/2024 at 8:25 PM, 4shines said:

We sailed on the silhoutte in Dec. My husband and I both got very sick. Horrible body aches and respiratory symptoms shortness of breath and coughing.  Came on very fast. I was tested and flu and Covid both negative. I ended up with bacterial pneumonia. I was thinking some new virus. Never had body pain that bad before. 

oh boy.. We are booked for 4 days on Slho for this Dec ( 2024).. Hope we do not catch this or anything else..As noted earlier in this thread,  we both were quite sick after we got home from ASCENT.. not Covid, unlikely flu and worst body aches ever. 

 

Of course, there's no way to know what it really was..self treated . And no way to connect it to ASCENT, other than we were on her and came down with this after we got off. 

 

If it's in shower heads, what can cruisers do to avoid???

[hcat]

TP Barney..

Adding our wishes for full recovery!

How rude of a Celeb rep to say you were too emotional! Not very nice and was inprofessional!

Edited August 8 by hcat

[chengkp75]

58 minutes ago, hcat said:

If it's in shower heads, what can cruisers do to avoid???

Shower heads are one of the most common sources of legionella bacteria.  I don't know the EU's ShipSan sanitation program well enough to know what mediation measures they require (since Ascent is in Europe), but the USPH/CDC VSP program requires that all shower heads be taken off and sanitized in bleach every 6 months for 60 minutes.  It sounds like they are now doing this, in response to the known cases.  As for shower use, keep the shower temperature as low as comfortable, to prevent mist forming, and try not to face the shower head directly.

 

Hot tubs, misting stations, and waterfall like features are also areas of concern.  The HVAC system is taken care of by the use of sanitizing pads in the condensate pans, which is where the bacteria would grow, as it requires water to grow, and air flow to become airborne.

[Rick&Jeannie]

On 8/7/2024 at 9:17 AM, TP Barney said:

Just reading the comments on Legionnaires. We cruised on Ascent 18-27 May starting in Athens and disembarking in Barcelona. I have already shared a review.

My wife started to exhibit signs of Legionnaires within 3 days of leaving Ascent. She was admitted to Critical care in our local hospital for 3 days and respiratory ward for a further 2 weeks. She was very seriously ill and 10 weeks later is still struggling with the after effects of the pneumonia it caused. Please be aware this is no flu, 30 % of those who contract Legionnaires will not survive!

I can't prove that it was contracted on Ascent, however bearing in mind the recent history of this ship it is more than likely..

Celebrity don't even want to talk to me about it. The only contact I have had was with a customer relations official from Celebrity who in our conversation accused me of being ''too emotional''

I would like to reach out to other passengers particulary on this cruise, did anyone else experience the symptoms of pneumonis-sickness, delerium, trouble breathing- after the cruise? 

Very sorry to hear of your wife's experience and hope that she will completely recover.  

On a side note...I see that this was your first CC post.  Welcome to Cruise Critic!

[hcat]

7 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Shower heads are one of the most common sources of legionella bacteria.  I don't know the EU's ShipSan sanitation program well enough to know what mediation measures they require (since Ascent is in Europe), but the USPH/CDC VSP program requires that all shower heads be taken off and sanitized in bleach every 6 months for 60 minutes.  It sounds like they are now doing this, in response to the known cases.  As for shower use, keep the shower temperature as low as comfortable, to prevent mist forming, and try not to face the shower head directly.

 

Hot tubs, misting stations, and waterfall like features are also areas of concern.  The HVAC system is taken care of by the use of sanitizing pads in the condensate pans, which is where the bacteria would grow, as it requires water to grow, and air flow to become airborne.

thanks..

.  I will share this info with my husb who likes very hot steamy showers..he will need to adjust for a few days!

 

off topic:  but does mist danger, etc apply to kids' spray park areas..  Water is not usually hot,  &  they must use some type of chlorination ????

[chengkp75]

1 minute ago, hcat said:

thanks..

.  I will share this info with my husb who likes very hot steamy showers..he will need to adjust for a few days!

 

off topic:  but does mist danger, etc apply to kids' spray park areas..  Water is not usually hot,  &  they must use some type of chlorination ????

While legionella grows best at around 110-120*F (which is why it likes hot tubs), it can multiply in luke warm water.  They do use chlorination, but the same goes for the potable water in the showers.  What is dangerous is if the water is allowed to lay stagnant with oxygen, like in the bottom of a shower head where the nozzles are above the bottom (though the splash pad water is chlorinated much higher than the potable water.  Spray nozzles in splash pads may cause some danger if it is turned off for a few hours each day, and then turned back on, but just like with the shower head, allowing it to run for a minute or two will clear any contaminated water out the nozzles.

[hcat]

thank you for generously sharing your expert knowledge.!

[PTC DAWG]

On 8/7/2024 at 9:17 AM, TP Barney said:

Just reading the comments on Legionnaires. We cruised on Ascent 18-27 May starting in Athens and disembarking in Barcelona. I have already shared a review.

My wife started to exhibit signs of Legionnaires within 3 days of leaving Ascent. She was admitted to Critical care in our local hospital for 3 days and respiratory ward for a further 2 weeks. She was very seriously ill and 10 weeks later is still struggling with the after effects of the pneumonia it caused. Please be aware this is no flu, 30 % of those who contract Legionnaires will not survive!

I can't prove that it was contracted on Ascent, however bearing in mind the recent history of this ship it is more than likely..

Celebrity don't even want to talk to me about it. The only contact I have had was with a customer relations official from Celebrity who in our conversation accused me of being ''too emotional''

I would like to reach out to other passengers particulary on this cruise, did anyone else experience the symptoms of pneumonis-sickness, delerium, trouble breathing- after the cruise? 

First off, I hope your Wife makes a full recovery..

 

2ndly, prove she got sick due to Celebrity and go after them. She can’t be the only person on that sailing with these issues..best of luck. 

Edited August 8 by PTC DAWG

[TP Barney]

Thank you all for your best wishes, my wife is recovering slowly and will be off work for at least a further 3 months.

It is comforting that complete strangers on Cruise Critic have offered their best wishes, unfortunately Celebrity cruises have not seen fit to do so!

I have no agenda to litigate against Celebrity.

My only objective is for them to adhere to their responsibilities and publically comment on what further action they have taken to ensure passenger safety on the Ascent as a result of my wife's diagnosis.

As a result of the 2 passengers diagnosis of Legionnaires back in January the US disease control agency (CDC) required Celebrity to issue a public statement indicating that although there was no proof of them contracting the condition on board ship that ''for the abundance of caution'' they were warning future passengers that if they contracted symptoms that they should consult immediate medical assistance.

What I dont understand is why in my wife's case they don't apparently care! I have contacted the CDC in the US for their comments. They have indicated that they will look at the case and have issued a detailed questionnaire to the UK Public Health Authority.

It would be great if Celebrity public relations department read your kind posts on Cruise Critic!

[1Virgo]

1 hour ago, TP Barney said:

Thank you all for your best wishes, my wife is recovering slowly and will be off work for at least a further 3 months.

It is comforting that complete strangers on Cruise Critic have offered their best wishes, unfortunately Celebrity cruises have not seen fit to do so!

I have no agenda to litigate against Celebrity.

My only objective is for them to adhere to their responsibilities and publically comment on what further action they have taken to ensure passenger safety on the Ascent as a result of my wife's diagnosis.

As a result of the 2 passengers diagnosis of Legionnaires back in January the US disease control agency (CDC) required Celebrity to issue a public statement indicating that although there was no proof of them contracting the condition on board ship that ''for the abundance of caution'' they were warning future passengers that if they contracted symptoms that they should consult immediate medical assistance.

What I dont understand is why in my wife's case they don't apparently care! I have contacted the CDC in the US for their comments. They have indicated that they will look at the case and have issued a detailed questionnaire to the UK Public Health Authority.

It would be great if Celebrity public relations department read your kind posts on Cruise Critic!

 

I hope your wife continues to improve. Certainly a long haul for her and for you.  And, a good eye opener.

 

Unfortunately, IMO, many dont report illness onboard as they dont want the expense of the medical team, nor to be quarantined.  Nor do many Covid test for same reason   Does  CDC only get inolved after a certain percentage is attained of ill passengers?

 

Here s to better days

[chengkp75]

2 minutes ago, 1Virgo said:

Does  CDC only get inolved after a certain percentage is attained of ill passengers?

Are you asking about that poster's cruise?  Because I'm a bit surprised that the CDC got involved at all, as the ship was in the Med.  CDC only has jurisdiction over ships that are calling at US ports.

 

Now, for a cruise calling at US ports, the CDC gets a report from every ship (not just cruise ships) every time the ship enters US waters, that reports the number of illnesses (regardless of what type) have been onboard over IIRC the last month.  So, any cases of Legionella, hanta, yellow fever, or any other contagious disease will be reported before any ship enters US waters, and the USPH/CDC has the right to quarantine a vessel based on these reports.  CDC also requires cruise ships to report on gastro-intestinal cases, even if no cases have been found, every time the ship enters US waters.  The CDC will request a further report, and a report of mediation measures, if GI illness reaches 2% of passengers and crew, and a further report, and an investigation when the number of GI cases reaches 3% (this is the number that many cruisers mistake for when CDC gets notified, but this would be at least the 3rd report for that cruise, and is actually the only time data gets posted on the CDC website).

[TP Barney]

Thanks for your detailed response, this is very helpful.

 

CDC initially indicated that the ship was outside their jurisdiction and suggested I take the matter up with our Public Health Authority.

 

After a few days I received an email from the CDC indicating that their section dealing with Legionnaires had requested further information and was doing this by contacting the UK Public Health Authority who had ultimate jurisdiction. My wife and I were recently contacted by the UK authorities and a detailed questionnaire was completed. My local Health Authority representative who completed the questionnaire indicated that the request for information had come from the CDC and the completed document was to be emailed back to them.

 

Maybe we have not heard the full story of what happened back in January?

[hrhdhd]

On 8/7/2024 at 9:17 AM, TP Barney said:

I would like to reach out to other passengers particulary on this cruise, did anyone else experience the symptoms of pneumonis-sickness, delerium, trouble breathing- after the cruise? 

You could look for the roll call for the cruise and post this question there.

[zitsky]

If this can be passed by hot tubs, are pools safe?  I already have to watch out for babies in diapers in both the hot tub and the pools.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, TP Barney said:

Maybe we have not heard the full story of what happened back in January?

I don't think there is anything sinister here.  Cases of legionella are fairly rare around the world, about 10-15 per million, and cases on cruise ships even more rare, so the CDC is trying to get data points from whenever a case on a cruise ship is reported.

[Georgia_Peaches]

1 minute ago, zitsky said:

If this can be passed by hot tubs, are pools safe?  I already have to watch out for babies in diapers in both the hot tub and the pools.

As I understand it, the bacteria are transferred via steam or vapor where they actively multiply due to increased temps.  I think pools are safe(r).

[chengkp75]

1 minute ago, zitsky said:

If this can be passed by hot tubs, are pools safe?  I already have to watch out for babies in diapers in both the hot tub and the pools.

The difference is that hot tubs are kept at a higher temperature, and the air jets (which many cruise lines have disconnected for this reason) aerosolizes the water making it easier to breathe in the contaminated water.  Legionella is an airborne bacteria, it is not passed by contact with the water, but by breathing water vapor. 

[zitsky]

8 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

The difference is that hot tubs are kept at a higher temperature, and the air jets (which many cruise lines have disconnected for this reason) aerosolizes the water making it easier to breathe in the contaminated water.  Legionella is an airborne bacteria, it is not passed by contact with the water, but by breathing water vapor. 

It sounds like I should stay away from hot tubs AND pools.  What will I do now?  😂

[chengkp75]

5 minutes ago, zitsky said:

It sounds like I should stay away from hot tubs AND pools.  What will I do now?  😂

Don't shower either.