Passengers service act violations

[glhman52]

My question is regarding the AON Princess Vacation Protection policy. Does anyone know, if one must disembark due to a listed medical condition, and being US citizens, and we disembark in a US port, is the $941.00 one must pay our US Government to disembark as per the VSPA covered under our policy? Have been getting either “Don’t know” “Not sure” etc… Because ALL cruise ships are registered in foreign countries, we, as US citizens HAVE to pay these fees to be “allowed” off the ship. 

[1025cruise]

In most cases, the fine is waived if you are debarking for a medical emergency.

[Arizona Wildcat]

Not sure what constitutes a "listed" medical emergency.  Do know a heart attack patient who was evacuated to the US on a cruise that began in San Pedro (LA).  Never any discussion of violating the act or a bill.

Agree with 1025 if the disembarking was involuntary due to a medical emergency there would be no fine to the passenger

[skynight]

PVSA violations probably waived for medical emergency. Are you being fined because of a violation? If not why even worry about it. U.S. citizen has nothing to do with the act. The act applies to any passenger. While doubtful there would be any fine, $300 is a small amount if there is indeed a medical emergency.

[Essiesmom]

30 minutes ago, skynight said:

PVSA violations probably waived for medical emergency. Are you being fined because of a violation? If not why even worry about it. U.S. citizen has nothing to do with the act. The act applies to any passenger. While doubtful there would be any fine, $300 is a small amount if there is indeed a medical emergency.

The days of the $300pp are long gone.  Last I heard it was upwards of $800pp, or maybe by now it is the $941 that the OP mentions.  EM

[glhman52]

It is indeed $941. US dollars And if not paid, no disembarkment for a US citizen who boarded the ship in US and disembarked in US.  Immigration gets involved. 

[DallasGuy75219]

4 minutes ago, glhman52 said:

It is indeed $941. US dollars And if not paid, no disembarkment for a US citizen who boarded the ship in US and disembarked in US.  Immigration gets involved. 

The fine is levied against the cruise line, not the passenger. 

 

If anyone is preventing a passenger from disembarking until the fine is paid, it's the cruise line doing so either because the passenger was paying their onboard account in cash or because the credit card they were using was denied when the cruise line tried to charge additional pre-authorizations.

[1025cruise]

37 minutes ago, DallasGuy75219 said:

The fine is levied against the cruise line, not the passenger. 

 

If anyone is preventing a passenger from disembarking until the fine is paid, it's the cruise line doing so either because the passenger was paying their onboard account in cash or because the credit card they were using was denied when the cruise line tried to charge additional pre-authorizations.

Yes, but the cruise line will pass the fine on to the passenger. 

Again, in the case of a medical debarkation, it's very possible that immigration will waive the fine.

[DallasGuy75219]

19 minutes ago, 1025cruise said:

Yes, but the cruise line will pass the fine on to the passenger. 

Again, in the case of a medical debarkation, it's very possible that immigration will waive the fine.

My post was abundantly clear.  CBP levies the fines against the cruise line, and the cruise line collects it from the passenger.

[glhman52]

As it worked out for the folks involved in this “hypothetical” It was indeed the immigration team, All wearing flack vests, multiple handguns and multiple officers from immigration which received the payment at the time of the departure.  Along with multiple crew members going through customs, they were also required to be present at the immigration office on board and after all others were processed, they were then questioned, charged $941.00 per person to be enabled to exit ship IN a US port( Hawaii).  

[ontheweb]

11 hours ago, DallasGuy75219 said:

My post was abundantly clear.  CBP levies the fines against the cruise line, and the cruise line collects it from the passenger.

The question then becomes can the cruise line get the fine waived in case of medical emergency. I believe I have read on the cc boards from @chengkp75 that in case of something like a hurricane the cruise line normally applies for and receives a waver of the fine.

[Arizona Wildcat]

1 hour ago, glhman52 said:

As it worked out for the folks involved in this “hypothetical” It was indeed the immigration team, All wearing flack vests, multiple handguns and multiple officers from immigration which received the payment at the time of the departure.  Along with multiple crew members going through customs, they were also required to be present at the immigration office on board and after all others were processed, they were then questioned, charged $941.00 per person to be enabled to exit ship IN a US port( Hawaii).  

INS officers uniform usually includes tactical gear.  Nothing special there.  An confused by your post.  Crew members and passengers were disembarking,  but others were charged the $941?  Presume this was the middle of a cruise that had not yet stopped at a BONUS port, but this thread was about emergency/urgent medical situations - not someone saying they are choosing to leave.

On a LA to Hawaii to Ensenada to LA cruise DW was told on death of her Mother that she could disembark in Honolulu Tomales arrangements (not me).

[skynight]

Crew members, entertainers and others employed by the cruise line are not subject to the PVSA. Only passengers. 

[dreaminofcruisin]

19 hours ago, glhman52 said:

My question is regarding the AON Princess Vacation Protection policy. Does anyone know, if one must disembark due to a listed medical condition, and being US citizens, and we disembark in a US port, is the $941.00 one must pay our US Government to disembark as per the VSPA covered under our policy? Have been getting either “Don’t know” “Not sure” etc… Because ALL cruise ships are registered in foreign countries, we, as US citizens HAVE to pay these fees to be “allowed” off the ship. 

 

2 hours ago, glhman52 said:

As it worked out for the folks involved in this “hypothetical” It was indeed the immigration team, All wearing flack vests, multiple handguns and multiple officers from immigration which received the payment at the time of the departure.  Along with multiple crew members going through customs, they were also required to be present at the immigration office on board and after all others were processed, they were then questioned, charged $941.00 per person to be enabled to exit ship IN a US port( Hawaii).  

 

This is pretty confusing. I'm not sure what the "listed medical condition" would be that would require one to leave the ship early. It sounds like it was not considered a medical emergency, but more a decision based on a medical condition? I think there is enough information missing here that it is difficult to understand why they would have been charged unless the ship personnel did not think it required disembarkation. If it truly was an emergency, one would think it would follow logically that the fine would be waived....

 

but then I am making assumptions....

 

[chengkp75]

First off, the OP says it was a "hypothetical", but then said that CBP officers required payment from the passengers.  This is blatantly untrue.  CBP doesn't give a hoot about the passenger, the fine is for the cruise line, and that is where they will get their money.  It is merely the cruise line ticket contract where you give the cruise line permission to pass the fine to you.  And, anyone saying that without paying the fine "no US citizen is disembarking" is also pure rubbish.  As noted by others, the PVSA has nothing to do with the citizenship of the passenger, since the fine is for the cruise line to have transported any passenger in this manner.  And, as noted above, CBP doesn't care about the passenger, and are perfectly willing to let a passenger disembark in violation of the PVSA, since they will simply fine the cruise line.

 

Secondly, there is no legal reason that the cruise line can hold anyone on the ship that wants to leave, for any reason.  The only thing that the cruise line can do is place an "innkeeper's lien" on the passenger who doesn't pay their bill in full (whether normal charges or PVSA fines), and all that means is that the passenger cannot take their luggage with them, the cruise line holds it as collateral for the debt.

 

Thirdly, in most cases of medical evacuation or disembarkation, CBP will levy a fine against the cruise line, and the cruise line will pass it to the passenger, and it will fall to the passenger to obtain a waiver and return of the fine from CBP.  I know of one case where a deceased passenger was fined for "disembarking" early, and the surviving spouse had to apply for waiver.

 

As to whether or not the fine is covered by Princess' insurance, the OP needs to read the policy to see if it mentions fines.  If it does, it's covered, if it doesn't, it's not covered.  Simple.

[cr8tiv1]

As always, @chengkp75 comes to the rescue with an explanation that everyone can understand.  

 

Mahalo Nui Loa

[chengkp75]

I will qualify my last post with regards to restraining a passenger from leaving the ship, by saying that not paying a hotel bill is considered theft in Hawaii, and the amount of the PVSA fine makes it 2nd degree theft, which is a  felony, and as such, ship's security can stop a person from disembarking until local law enforcement arrive.  This is not considered theft, a criminal charge, but a civil one, in many states, and you cannot be detained for a civil crime.

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

First off, the OP says it was a "hypothetical", but then said that CBP officers required payment from the passengers.  This is blatantly untrue.  CBP doesn't give a hoot about the passenger, the fine is for the cruise line, and that is where they will get their money.  It is merely the cruise line ticket contract where you give the cruise line permission to pass the fine to you.  And, anyone saying that without paying the fine "no US citizen is disembarking" is also pure rubbish.  As noted by others, the PVSA has nothing to do with the citizenship of the passenger, since the fine is for the cruise line to have transported any passenger in this manner.  And, as noted above, CBP doesn't care about the passenger, and are perfectly willing to let a passenger disembark in violation of the PVSA, since they will simply fine the cruise line.

 

Secondly, there is no legal reason that the cruise line can hold anyone on the ship that wants to leave, for any reason.  The only thing that the cruise line can do is place an "innkeeper's lien" on the passenger who doesn't pay their bill in full (whether normal charges or PVSA fines), and all that means is that the passenger cannot take their luggage with them, the cruise line holds it as collateral for the debt.

 

Thirdly, in most cases of medical evacuation or disembarkation, CBP will levy a fine against the cruise line, and the cruise line will pass it to the passenger, and it will fall to the passenger to obtain a waiver and return of the fine from CBP.  I know of one case where a deceased passenger was fined for "disembarking" early, and the surviving spouse had to apply for waiver.

 

As to whether or not the fine is covered by Princess' insurance, the OP needs to read the policy to see if it mentions fines.  If it does, it's covered, if it doesn't, it's not covered.  Simple.

As always, thank you for sharing your knowledge with the rest of us. One question, do the cruise lines normally give any guidance for passengers to get the waiver of the fine in instances like you mentioned where the deceased passenger "disembarked early" or any other medical emergency disembarkation? Does this vary among the cruise lines?

[chengkp75]

8 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

As always, thank you for sharing your knowledge with the rest of us. One question, do the cruise lines normally give any guidance for passengers to get the waiver of the fine in instances like you mentioned where the deceased passenger "disembarked early" or any other medical emergency disembarkation? Does this vary among the cruise lines?

At NCL, where I witnessed that instance, they will provide all documentation needed to apply for a refund to CBP.  I can't say how other cruise lines handle it.

[ontheweb]

7 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

At NCL, where I witnessed that instance, they will provide all documentation needed to apply for a refund to CBP.  I can't say how other cruise lines handle it.

Thank you once more. I guess it would be too much to ask if lines other than NCL did this. But it is good from your experience to know NCL is helpful in this regard. Hopefully, others are also.

[DallasGuy75219]

5 hours ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

Crew members and passengers were disembarking,  but others were charged the $941? 

PVSA applies to transporting revenue passengers, therefore crew members signing off in a US port (if they happened to have signed on in a different US port without a distant foreign port stop during their contract) wouldn't be subject to a fine.

[cr8tiv1]

I was "stuck" in the MDR on the Grand with other crew being interviewed by Customs Border Patrol before disembarking the ship.  I had to "clear" customs to take some things off the ship to my daughters (story has been told many times).  I saw crew and entertainers waiting to be cleared.  Never considered that they would have been fined for violating PVSA.  Makes sense.

[Arizona Wildcat]

20 minutes ago, DallasGuy75219 said:

PVSA applies to transporting revenue passengers, therefore crew members signing off in a US port (if they happened to have signed on in a different US port without a distant foreign port stop during their contract) wouldn't be subject to a fine.

My post was made as sort of a you have got to be kidding mode.  We both to whom PVSA applies and that there are waivers.  It appears at some ports they do a waiver on the spot and not at others.  That a deceased person was charged is beyond comprehension. 

cr - crew and entertainers are not subject to a PVSA fine, but rather they need the appropriate passports and/or visas to disembark at ports.  

Edited April 26 by Arizona Wildcat

[chengkp75]

24 minutes ago, cr8tiv1 said:

I saw crew and entertainers waiting to be cleared.  Never considered that they would have been fined for violating PVSA.  Makes sense.

No, it doesn't. Crew and entertainers are not "passengers" as defined in the PVSA, and only the transport of "passengers" is controlled by the PVSA.

[TRLD]

50 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

No, it doesn't. Crew and entertainers are not "passengers" as defined in the PVSA, and only the transport of "passengers" is controlled by the PVSA.

An example

 

Was talking with an entertainer on a Oceania ship. He joined the ship in Honolulu to work the at sea days on the way back to LA. He said His fiance could not join him because since he was working PVSA did not apply. But his fiance, even though she was not paying a fare and would have been staying in his cabin, would still have been considered to be a passenger and restricted by PVSA since she was not working on that cruise (she is also an entertainer, just not on that cruise).