Banned!

[njhorseman]

2 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

For whatever good it might do, I think there is an identifier in the passport of convicted sex offenders.  

Correct, although as I dug a little deeper into the applicable law it appears that this may only apply to those convicted of sex offenses against children because of the reference to International Megan's Law and the Angel Watch Center.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/legal-matters/passports-and-international-megans-law.html#:~:text=We will print an identifier,pursuant to 22 USC 212b.

Passports and International Megan's Law

 

When applying for a passport, you must self-identify as a sex offender. 

• We will print an identifier in your passport book. We cannot issue passport cards to covered sex offenders.
• The identifier is a statement printed inside the passport book which reads: “The bearer was convicted of a sex offense against a minor, and is a covered sex offender pursuant to 22 USC 212b. 
• The law allows us to revoke passports issued to sex offenders that do not have the identifier.
• The Angel Watch Center (AWC) in the U.S. Department of Homeland Security certifies an individual is a covered sex offender.

Edited July 10 by njhorseman

[Elaine5715]

People are banned from cruise lines for more than just assaultive behavior, calling it "unruly' sounds like reducing fights to cutting in the buffet line.  People are banned for things like chargebacks to credit cards on cruise fares, failure to pay, posting videos showing themselves resealing water bottles in rooms.   

I did witness a guy get pulled aside who was on a B2B and had had a Protective Order in place against him from a previous relationship (not from his new bride sailing with him). The bride was also questioned about her safety and both did remain onboard. The newlyweds shared the reasons and we were all was surprised the ship had that information.  

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, Elaine5715 said:

People are banned from cruise lines for more than just assaultive behavior, calling it "unruly' sounds like reducing fights to cutting in the buffet line.  People are banned for things like chargebacks to credit cards on cruise fares, failure to pay, posting videos showing themselves resealing water bottles in rooms.   

I did witness a guy get pulled aside who was on a B2B and had had a Protective Order in place against him from a previous relationship (not from his new bride sailing with him). The bride was also questioned about her safety and both did remain onboard. The newlyweds shared the reasons and we were all was surprised the ship had that information.  

 

I am even more surprised someone would voluntarily share that info with strangers.  

[wcook]

On 7/9/2024 at 7:52 PM, BeasleysMom66 said:

when they went on a cruise and his probation officer and family were on the same ship.

Oops!

[Elaine5715]

5 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

I am even more surprised someone would voluntarily share that info with strangers.  

They had gotten married on the first cruise and their bridal party did not remain onboard for the second.  We already had front row seats to one of the bridesmaids who intentionally left her "uglyass" dress in her room and was paged repeatedly to Guest Services.  The bridesmaid didn't see the bride when she told GS to toss that thing overboard.  That was a more interesting discussion. The Protective Order was from the ex-girlfriend so the bride was pretty proud she won the groom.   

[ldubs]

2 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

They had gotten married on the first cruise and their bridal party did not remain onboard for the second.  We already had front row seats to one of the bridesmaids who intentionally left her "uglyass" dress in her room and was paged repeatedly to Guest Services.  The bridesmaid didn't see the bride when she told GS to toss that thing overboard.  That was a more interesting discussion. The Protective Order was from the ex-girlfriend so the bride was pretty proud she won the groom.   

 

Astounding!  Did you see cameras in the background?  Sounds like a real housewives episode!  hahah.  

[Gwendy]

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

 

Astounding!  Did you see cameras in the background?  Sounds like a real housewives episode!  hahah.  

Or Days of our Lives.  After reading these comments I realise I lead a very dull life. Lol

[Elaine5715]

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

 

Astounding!  Did you see cameras in the background?  Sounds like a real housewives episode!  hahah.  

Pre cell phones...FYI  it was an uglyass dress

[MacMadame]

29 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

Pre cell phones...FYI  it was an uglyass dress

Aren't the mostly all though? It's part of the deal of being a bridesmaid.

[momofmeg]

On 7/7/2024 at 6:53 AM, MBP&O2/O said:

I cannot comment on American Law but, under UK legislation ......

 if the fight was onboard, dealt with onboard, and no criminal proceedings followed then the matter would be viewed as a Civil matter and nothing to do with the criminal courts. 

We are then looking at the old sign at many clubs saying "the management reserve the right to refuse admission"

Keeping a database of trouble makers? Almost certainly the parent company will have a list, but sharing those personal details outside of that domain might be viewed as illegal .... it would be under UK law.

US law does not affect cruise ships except when they are in US ports not in international waters. I assume that is true of all countries. I have read cruise ships have a "brig" where they can put people who are then turned over at the next port for something like murder. Otherwise disembarked and banned to find their way home.

 I read of one I found very sad years ago where the wife had dementia and the husband went on an excursion. He assumed it was okay to tell her to stay in their room until he returned as if the poor woman would remember. She left their stateroom confused and the crew had to care for her. When he returned, they were put off ship to find their way home. This happened on a Australian cruise but they were American.

 

another equally bad was a disabled wheelchair bound man who booked a suite thinking the butler could help him to the bathroom. He was disembarked pretty quickly too. I always wondered how in the world did he get to ship without assistance. I figured that must have been family's idea.

[momofmeg]

On 7/9/2024 at 4:41 PM, chengkp75 said:

So, you're saying that if a registered sex offender goes to a foreign country, then the terms of their parole would apply?  I don't think that would be the case.  It is outside the jurisdiction of the paroling court.   US law does not carry over everywhere on Earth.

 No, it doesn't but you can bet your bottom dollar the authorities in other countries know the person is a sex offender, I imagine their passport is flagged and they would be watching them like a hawk.  Many countries have much stiffer laws too than the USA.   A person can be thrown in prison for years on mere suspicion. Lol though I would not care in that case, I say good riddance for a sex offender. Let them keep them.

[momofmeg]

Just now, momofmeg said:

 No, it doesn't but you can bet your bottom dollar the authorities in other countries know the person is a sex offender, I imagine their passport is flagged and they would be watching them like a hawk.  Many countries have much stiffer laws too than the USA.   A person can be thrown in prison for years on mere suspicion. Lol though I would not care in that case, I say good riddance for a sex offender. Let them keep them.

 and I do know a person accused of molesting a minor many years ago. He claims he was framed that he believed the girl to be 18 (he was 22 at the time) He actually served time. I have no idea if he was really fooled about the girl's age, but his wife believes him. she married him after meeting him a few years after he got out of prison. knowing this. anyway. she takes cruises without him because he can't go with his record.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, momofmeg said:

No, it doesn't but you can bet your bottom dollar the authorities in other countries know the person is a sex offender, I imagine their passport is flagged and they would be watching them like a hawk.

US passport laws require the sex offender to self-identify themselves in order to get an identifier on the passport, as is noted in another post above.  The government can revoke the passport of a sex offender that does not have the identifier, but that requires the government to find out that a sex offender has obtained a passport without the identifier, which could be never.  That would require data sharing between State Department, CBP and Angel Watch both in Homeland.

 

1 hour ago, momofmeg said:

US law does not affect cruise ships except when they are in US ports not in international waters.

This is not quite true.  The US has claimed "extra-territorial jurisdiction" over certain serious crimes that happen on a foreign flag cruise ship, in international waters, but only if it involves a US citizen, and isn't in the territorial waters of another country.  And, even then, not all US laws apply to incidents on the ship while in a US port.

Edited July 12 by chengkp75

[KBS1607]

17 hours ago, MacMadame said:

Aren't the mostly all though? It's part of the deal of being a bridesmaid.

The are mostly uglyass. When my brother got married they asked my daughter to be a flower girl, then also asked me to be a bridesmaid. I didn’t think quickly enough to say no! 

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

On 7/7/2024 at 4:57 PM, Charles4515 said:

I think their lawyers would not allow it to be shared. 

I wish it was ...

[1city@atime]

lol, hilarious you think anyone is banned from Carnival.

[Airbear232]

Can any cruise line effectively enforce a ban over time?  Given the commonality of many people’s names and the fact that passport numbers change.  You are left with an honour system for being banned.  The cruiser after a period of time could presumably register as a new guest.  Hopefully, they’re more mellow by that time.  (Caveat: new tech like facial recognition could aid in effectively banning people for life).

[Charles4515]

20 minutes ago, Airbear232 said:

Can any cruise line effectively enforce a ban over time?  Given the commonality of many people’s names and the fact that passport numbers change.  You are left with an honour system for being banned.  The cruiser after a period of time could presumably register as a new guest.  Hopefully, they’re more mellow by that time.  (Caveat: new tech like facial recognition could aid in effectively banning people for life).

They have names and birthdates. I think they can enforce a ban over time. 

[Airbear232]

14 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

They have names and birthdates. I think they can enforce a ban over time. 

Really, my uncle was one of 16 born on the same day and city with the same name.  If that’s not enough, people can make legal changes to their names (e.g., women getting married).

[Charles4515]

1 hour ago, Airbear232 said:

Really, my uncle was one of 16 born on the same day and city with the same name.  If that’s not enough, people can make legal changes to their names (e.g., women getting married).

They have enough info on passengers bookings that they can enforce a ban. 

[Airbear232]

27 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

They have enough info on passengers bookings that they can enforce a ban. 

I’m going to disagree.  If someone was banned and let time lapse (few years), and had a new passport number and address, I don’t see them being able to enforce the ban.  In the future, if they apply biometrics, then that will be a different story. 

[momofmeg]

On 7/12/2024 at 9:25 AM, chengkp75 said:

US passport laws require the sex offender to self-identify themselves in order to get an identifier on the passport, as is noted in another post above.  The government can revoke the passport of a sex offender that does not have the identifier, but that requires the government to find out that a sex offender has obtained a passport without the identifier, which could be never.  That would require data sharing between State Department, CBP and Angel Watch both in Homeland.

 

This is not quite true.  The US has claimed "extra-territorial jurisdiction" over certain serious crimes that happen on a foreign flag cruise ship, in international waters, but only if it involves a US citizen, and isn't in the territorial waters of another country.  And, even then, not all US laws apply to incidents on the ship while in a US port.

  I don't and never have work in security, I have never studied law and I don't have a record, I indicated I was guessing. My point was, I was pretty sure the passport would be flagged. I knew there had to be some way they were kept track of to protect people across borders in other countries.  You say it is indicated directly on the passport? I did not know that, but I am glad to know. In my mind there is nothing worse than a child molester. It is good to know a person with a record can't go into another country and keep authorities in ignorance

[Charles4515]

35 minutes ago, momofmeg said:

of to protect people across borders in other countries.  You say it is indicated directly on the passport? I did not know that, but I am glad to know. In my mind there is nothing worse than a child molester. It is good to know a person with a record can't go into another country and keep authorities in ignorance

Passports before 2021 are read electronically. Probably a code or extra number. After 2021 Passports have a chip. 

[momofmeg]

3 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

Passports before 2021 are read electronically. Probably a code or extra number. After 2021 Passports have a chip. 

   there had to be a way in this day and age. People think they can get away and won't be recognized if they have a common name like Mary Davis or John Smith etc. but technology is too advanced now. The last time we went to England two years ago, (and the last time I left North America) they put us in this facial recognition thing I have no idea what you call it, but it reminded me of the dentist whole mouth ex-ray machine, lol!  Who would have dreamed they would have technology for that? Very Logan's Run.   I am guessing a person would not be able to steal my passport and get away with using it just because they looked like me. 

[Aquahound]

On 7/12/2024 at 4:25 AM, momofmeg said:

US law does not affect cruise ships except when they are in US ports not in international waters.

 

That is not true.  The Special Maritime and Territorial Jurisdiction (SMTJ) of the United States is extended to US Citizens on foreign flagged ships while on the high seas, and to a wide range of activities, including foreign nationals if the US is the next port of call.  It is under this law that the FBI and the US Coast Guard are able to claim jurisdiction of certain crimes that occur in the SMTJ, such as assaults.  

 

If this fight occurred on the high seas and not within the waters of a foreign state, the US could have charged for the crime of Assault within the SMTJ.  Charges probably weren't filed because it's hard enough getting serious felonies through the US Attorneys Office these days, let alone a fight. 

 

Another interesting fact.  On cruises that both start and end their itineraries in Florida, the state of Florida can charge for certain crimes that occur on the high seas, such as domestic battery.