"Stateroom Capacity Advisory" Email - Have you received this notification?

[Wehwalt]

48 minutes ago, ExArkie said:

Based on what I downloaded a few years ago versus what is currently on the HAL Web site, they did (recently?) add language specific to reassigning your cabin based on its occupancy relative to your party size. 
 

And yes, I did read the contract…

They made it explicit recently. There was already language in there that IMO gave them the authority to change your cabin, but they spelled it out. Possibly they read these boards, at least some of it.

[TRLD]

1 hour ago, Wehwalt said:

They made it explicit recently. There was already language in there that IMO gave them the authority to change your cabin, but they spelled it out. Possibly they read these boards, at least some of it.

If i recall correctly  the policy was updated within a few days of the initial policy announcement. On March 20 someone posted  that they had been told about the policy change when they booked.  On Mar 21  the policy did not contain the new language. A few days  later it had been changed. 

Edited August 19 by TRLD

[a.madruga]

15 hours ago, shadow 123 said:

Agreed. Also, it makes you wonder why you even bother to book a room. I spend a lot of time looking for a room. I pay extra to get the room I want. I don't know, to me  just doesn't seem right.

 

If I know upfront there's a possibility you're going to change my room then I have the opportunity to decide if I want to go forward with this booking.  We are all aware when we book a cruise that we may not stop in the ports that are listed when we book the cruise. We know that. We know the cruise line can change ports at anytime ,change  destinations at anytime. We know that going in. And now we know going in that we may not have the room we wanted.

You're 100% right on statement, but still the new burger is RAW in taste ...IMO

[forevercruising1]

8 hours ago, Sebbiesgrammy said:

 My TA confirmed that the right to remove or change cabin assignments to accommodate anything they need has been buried in the fine print that I never read for a long time.

It might very well be there, but I’ve read all of the “fine print” I can find both on the website and in our booking confirmations and I cannot find anything stating that.  For those who have found it, please let me know where to locate the new policy language.  Thanks.

Edited August 19 by forevercruising1
Clarification

[Wehwalt]

10 minutes ago, forevercruising1 said:

It might very well be there, but I’ve read all of the “fine print” I can find both on the website and in our booking confirmations and I cannot find anything stating that.  For those who have found it, please let me know where to locate the new policy language.  Thanks.

It is the second paragraph of Section 8

 

Specific stateroom assignments are not guaranteed. Carrier reserves the right to move Guest(s) to a comparable stateroom for any reason including, but not limited to, instances during which a stateroom is booked with fewer than the maximum number of Guests that the stateroom can accommodate; or when a partial Guest cancellation occurs, and the remaining number of Guests do not match the maximum number of Guests the stateroom can accommodate.

 

 

[c4car]

When I first booked my cruise with the rooms I selected, my TA already told me, that both rooms are for 3 people. I was allowed to select those rooms at that time, but I might be bumped to a different room for one of them as we only have two people in that room. This reminder was given before we book. I booked the rooms anyway. Later, because of change of pricing, I was able to upgrade the two rooms to after view balconies. Same thing happened, both rooms I selected are for 3 people. I wasn't given the option to select the 3 people room for 2 people. I told my TA, I will cancel if I don't get those rooms. She then called into head office and get an approval to book with 2 people in a 3 people room. Now everything is finalized with full payment. I got the rooms I need. I haven't received any email about caution of room change. Hopefully that will not happened to me. 

[atexsix]

1 hour ago, Wehwalt said:

It is the second paragraph of Section 8

 

Specific stateroom assignments are not guaranteed. Carrier reserves the right to move Guest(s) to a comparable stateroom for any reason including, but not limited to, instances during which a stateroom is booked with fewer than the maximum number of Guests that the stateroom can accommodate; or when a partial Guest cancellation occurs, and the remaining number of Guests do not match the maximum number of Guests the stateroom can accommodate.

 

 

Oh I figured they had the legal speak down somewhere.

[TRLD]

58 minutes ago, c4car said:

When I first booked my cruise with the rooms I selected, my TA already told me, that both rooms are for 3 people. I was allowed to select those rooms at that time, but I might be bumped to a different room for one of them as we only have two people in that room. This reminder was given before we book. I booked the rooms anyway. Later, because of change of pricing, I was able to upgrade the two rooms to after view balconies. Same thing happened, both rooms I selected are for 3 people. I wasn't given the option to select the 3 people room for 2 people. I told my TA, I will cancel if I don't get those rooms. She then called into head office and get an approval to book with 2 people in a 3 people room. Now everything is finalized with full payment. I got the rooms I need. I haven't received any email about caution of room change. Hopefully that will not happened to me. 

When you say head office is that the head office of which ever company the TA works for, or HAL? If HAL did they talk with customer service or the department that actually controls the room inventory?

 

They may have just gotten permission to book you in those rooms, not a guarantee overriding policy.

Edited August 19 by TRLD

[c4car]

.

Edited August 19 by c4car

[c4car]

53 minutes ago, TRLD said:

When you say head office is that the head office of which ever company the TA works for, or HAL? If HAL did they talk with customer service or the department that actually controls the room inventory?

 

They may have just gotten permission to book you in those rooms, not a guarantee overriding policy.

I booked directly from HAL. My TA is from HAL. 

 

I never mentioned I got any guarantee on no room changes. I said I haven't get the notice of room change, and I hope that won't happen to me. 

[ebtrip]

On 8/17/2024 at 4:24 PM, forevercruising1 said:

 

We are angered by HAL’s new policy and livid that those of us who booked long before it was activated are not exempt.  

 

* We booked two cabins for this year’s Christmas cruise on the Koningsdam (12.21.24) with the Future Cruise Consultant onboard the Koningsdam last December, 2023.  
 

* We selected two very specific cabins due to their locations and their verandahs.

 

* As always, our bookings were marked “Do not upgrade.”  We chose those cabins and have no desire for any others.

 

* We have Club Orange for both cabins — paid for at initial booking.

 

* We were NOT provided with the “do you accept the possibility of your cabin changing due to capacity levels” option.  Had we been presented with that, we would not have booked at all.

 

We received the following notice in an email yesterday (again, we booked in December, 2023):

 

We are booked in a quad extended balcony cabin, which we selected specifically for its location and balcony, and we booked the same cabin (on the other side) for our adult son and are paying the single supplement for his.  We were never informed that the cabin capacity might ever become an issue.

 

It is ironic that HAL’s email states that “guest stateroom selection is on a first-come, first-served basis,” as we were clearly the first, yet HAL is choosing to serve other people and take our cabin(s) away from us. 

 

Instead of canceling (which my husband is ready to do), I would like to fight this and try to keep our Christmas cruise cabin selections and vacation plans in tact (we are not interested in changing to any of the few cabins that are still available on that sailing).  Is anyone else currently in this situation and attempting to fight the good fight?  If so, what is your plan?

I have posted under Cabin Reassigned. I am booked with my grown children 3 cabins mine with the extended balcony in January. I received NO NOTIFICATION and for some reason checked our reservation as final is due next week. HAL relocated all 3 cabins. Never knew. My PCC got us together again but not in our same cabins Yes I’m livid, but won’t ruin our family vacation. I have a cruise booked R:T Hawaii for January and I’m concerned they will relocate me again. 

[Windsailer]

All of you might find the following interesting. Note the date. 

 

Sent: Monday, March 25, 2024 at 02:58:35 PM HST

Subject: Chat transcript #84064120

 

2024-03-25T17:39:21-07:00, Carol : Begin Conversation
2024-03-25T17:39:39-07:00, agent: Thank you for visiting Holland America Line Chat. My name is Shaina and I'll be more than happy to look into your inquiries.
2024-03-25T17:41:09-07:00, Carol : Is it true that if I, as a solo, book a cabin that is designated as a triple of quad, I can't be "bumped" from that cabin if, say, a family of 4, wants it?
2024-03-25T17:41:27-07:00, Carol : I mean I can be bumped.
2024-03-25T17:41:58-07:00, agent: Sorry, what do you mean bumped?
2024-03-25T17:42:23-07:00, Carol : HAL can remove me from the cabin and give the cabin to the family of 4.
2024-03-25T17:42:37-07:00, agent: No.
2024-03-25T17:42:59-07:00, Carol : Are you positive? I heard that it's a new HAL policy.
2024-03-25T17:43:13-07:00, agent: If you are assigned to a cabin, that is yours. We don't removed guests to an assigned cabin.
2024-03-25T17:43:17-07:00, agent: No.
2024-03-25T17:43:43-07:00, agent: I mean no that is not the new policy of Holland America Line.
2024-03-25T17:43:50-07:00, agent: If you are assigned to a cabin, that is yours. We don't removed guests to an assigned cabin.
2024-03-25T17:44:20-07:00, Carol : Then why are people who are now booking cabins being told by HAL that is a posibilty?
2024-03-25T17:44:47-07:00, agent: Are you sure that is came from holland America line not to a travel agency?
2024-03-25T17:45:18-07:00, Carol : Yes.
2024-03-25T17:45:25-07:00, Carol : Yes.
2024-03-25T17:45:46-07:00, agent: If you are assigned to a cabin, that is yours. We don't removed guests to an assigned cabin.
 

 

Yet another example of HAL not being honest with its customers. 

[twincheryl]

22 hours ago, VMax1700 said:

Yes they are on the deck plans but not on the graphic showing available staterooms when you are making an online booking.

Thanks to you both... 

[FlorenceItaly]

9 minutes ago, Windsailer said:

All of you might find the following interesting. Note the date. 

 

Sent: Monday, March 25, 2024 at 02:58:35 PM HST

Subject: Chat transcript #84064120

 

2024-03-25T17:39:21-07:00, Carol : Begin Conversation
2024-03-25T17:39:39-07:00, agent: Thank you for visiting Holland America Line Chat. My name is Shaina and I'll be more than happy to look into your inquiries.
2024-03-25T17:41:09-07:00, Carol : Is it true that if I, as a solo, book a cabin that is designated as a triple of quad, I can't be "bumped" from that cabin if, say, a family of 4, wants it?
2024-03-25T17:41:27-07:00, Carol : I mean I can be bumped.
2024-03-25T17:41:58-07:00, agent: Sorry, what do you mean bumped?
2024-03-25T17:42:23-07:00, Carol : HAL can remove me from the cabin and give the cabin to the family of 4.
2024-03-25T17:42:37-07:00, agent: No.
2024-03-25T17:42:59-07:00, Carol : Are you positive? I heard that it's a new HAL policy.
2024-03-25T17:43:13-07:00, agent: If you are assigned to a cabin, that is yours. We don't removed guests to an assigned cabin.
2024-03-25T17:43:17-07:00, agent: No.
2024-03-25T17:43:43-07:00, agent: I mean no that is not the new policy of Holland America Line.
2024-03-25T17:43:50-07:00, agent: If you are assigned to a cabin, that is yours. We don't removed guests to an assigned cabin.
2024-03-25T17:44:20-07:00, Carol : Then why are people who are now booking cabins being told by HAL that is a posibilty?
2024-03-25T17:44:47-07:00, agent: Are you sure that is came from holland America line not to a travel agency?
2024-03-25T17:45:18-07:00, Carol : Yes.
2024-03-25T17:45:25-07:00, Carol : Yes.
2024-03-25T17:45:46-07:00, agent: If you are assigned to a cabin, that is yours. We don't removed guests to an assigned cabin.
 

 

Yet another example of HAL not being honest with its customers. 

I am not a HAL cheerleader, but I think this is more an example of poor training.  I am not making excuses but sadly HAL is known for inconsistencies.  I do think it is rare people are bumped BUT if it is a holiday sailing a much greater chance, IMO.  It seems people on holiday sailings are receiving notice from HAL this can happen.  If I received such notice, it would be a sign it is probably going to happen.  JMO.

[TRLD]

19 minutes ago, Windsailer said:

All of you might find the following interesting. Note the date. 

 

Sent: Monday, March 25, 2024 at 02:58:35 PM HST

Subject: Chat transcript #84064120

 

2024-03-25T17:39:21-07:00, Carol : Begin Conversation
2024-03-25T17:39:39-07:00, agent: Thank you for visiting Holland America Line Chat. My name is Shaina and I'll be more than happy to look into your inquiries.
2024-03-25T17:41:09-07:00, Carol : Is it true that if I, as a solo, book a cabin that is designated as a triple of quad, I can't be "bumped" from that cabin if, say, a family of 4, wants it?
2024-03-25T17:41:27-07:00, Carol : I mean I can be bumped.
2024-03-25T17:41:58-07:00, agent: Sorry, what do you mean bumped?
2024-03-25T17:42:23-07:00, Carol : HAL can remove me from the cabin and give the cabin to the family of 4.
2024-03-25T17:42:37-07:00, agent: No.
2024-03-25T17:42:59-07:00, Carol : Are you positive? I heard that it's a new HAL policy.
2024-03-25T17:43:13-07:00, agent: If you are assigned to a cabin, that is yours. We don't removed guests to an assigned cabin.
2024-03-25T17:43:17-07:00, agent: No.
2024-03-25T17:43:43-07:00, agent: I mean no that is not the new policy of Holland America Line.
2024-03-25T17:43:50-07:00, agent: If you are assigned to a cabin, that is yours. We don't removed guests to an assigned cabin.
2024-03-25T17:44:20-07:00, Carol : Then why are people who are now booking cabins being told by HAL that is a posibilty?
2024-03-25T17:44:47-07:00, agent: Are you sure that is came from holland America line not to a travel agency?
2024-03-25T17:45:18-07:00, Carol : Yes.
2024-03-25T17:45:25-07:00, Carol : Yes.
2024-03-25T17:45:46-07:00, agent: If you are assigned to a cabin, that is yours. We don't removed guests to an assigned cabin.
 

 

Yet another example of HAL not being honest with its customers. 

Actually a case of a customer service rep either not checking current policy or having a system that is not up to date concerning current policy.

 

Not being honest requires intent.

 

Usually it is a question of competence, not intent.

 

Considering the time stamps on the responses not enough time for the person to actually confirm what the policy actually is.

 

When i get a case of a rep giving me information that i believe is incorrect i ask them to please confirm that information.

[*Miss G*]

34 minutes ago, Windsailer said:

Yet another example of HAL not being honest with its customers. 

I don’t think it’s a matter of dishonesty. I think it’s a matter of off-shore workers not knowing, or their lack of training or maybe lack of familiarity with the product. That is not an excuse; merely an observation. 

[NCTribeFan]

I sail in November on N Am, in my lovely J cabin.  Just double checked the deck plan (FTR, I always, always, always have cruisedeckplans dot com open when I talk to my PCC to book so I know just where the cabin is located, what's above and below, and the occupancy).  My cabin is a quad.

 

I have not received notification that I might be bumped.  I'm hoping I won't.  It's the if week before Thanksgiving, which has typically been a fairly quiet week, so, hopefully, they won't need that quad.

 

FTR, there's a lot of talk on the Celebrity board about solos.  It seems that often, they're charged MORE THAN 200%.  Yes, there's the usual talk about how solos aren't spending as much as a couple or family, so they're being gouged on the cabin fares.  Some have also reported that when they go online and put in 1 passenger, that they don't even get the option to book anything other than solo cabins (specific ships and sailings). I think other than the solo cabins, a solo passenger would have to book a suite.  Not cool.  Especially at their prices. 

 

I don't want to be forced into a solo cabin (other than on Virgin; I loved my tiny solo cabin).  Often they're all the way forward and as someone who opts for low, midship cabins due to motion issues, I do NOT want to be all the way forward.

 

Again, I understand the occupancy issues.  Yes, I pay to select the cabin I want.  I don't want an "upgrade" without being told and given my options.  I understand that if the cabin is needed for 3 or 4 people, I'll be bumped, but I won't like it.

 

[Windsailer]

Once this new policy started being discussed - and in spite of the inaccurate answer from the Customer Service agent above - I made sure that when I booked a new cruise I was not in a cabin that was allowed three or four people. 

However, this doesn't help with the problem I have now. I have CO on two of my cruises this year - both were booked in 2023 - and in talking to Ship Inventory i selected a cabin I liked. I wasn't told that the cabin slept more than two people. In March, when this new polcy started being discussed, discovering both cabins were triples, I tried to switch both those cabins to doubles. But was told by my TA and HAL directly that I was only allowed to select my cabin once with CO and since I had already done that I couldn't move. More than a bit frustrating. 

[3rdGenCunarder]

14 minutes ago, Windsailer said:

Once this new policy started being discussed - and in spite of the inaccurate answer from the Customer Service agent above - I made sure that when I booked a new cruise I was not in a cabin that was allowed three or four people. 

However, this doesn't help with the problem I have now. I have CO on two of my cruises this year - both were booked in 2023 - and in talking to Ship Inventory i selected a cabin I liked. I wasn't told that the cabin slept more than two people. In March, when this new polcy started being discussed, discovering both cabins were triples, I tried to switch both those cabins to doubles. But was told by my TA and HAL directly that I was only allowed to select my cabin once with CO and since I had already done that I couldn't move. More than a bit frustrating. 

 

Siting here, shaking my head. I hope they don't move you after you made a good-faith effort to release the triples. 

[forevercruising1]

1 hour ago, Windsailer said:

Once this new policy started being discussed - and in spite of the inaccurate answer from the Customer Service agent above - I made sure that when I booked a new cruise I was not in a cabin that was allowed three or four people. 

However, this doesn't help with the problem I have now. I have CO on two of my cruises this year - both were booked in 2023 - and in talking to Ship Inventory i selected a cabin I liked. I wasn't told that the cabin slept more than two people. In March, when this new polcy started being discussed, discovering both cabins were triples, I tried to switch both those cabins to doubles. But was told by my TA and HAL directly that I was only allowed to select my cabin once with CO and since I had already done that I couldn't move. More than a bit frustrating. 

 

This is incorrect, as we just proactively moved our two cabins "at risk" of being taken from us due to higher capacities to different Verandah cabins that only sleep two.  We had CO on both cabins and, in fact, were told that if we change our minds about the new cabin location, we can call back and choose two different ones.  This was today, with a PCC.

 

What you were told contradicts the "Staterooom Capacity Advisory" email that we received  because it clearly instructed us to call in and select a new cabin if location was important to us.  (FYI: We also booked in 2023, but nothing was done during our phone call today to enable us to keep our original cabins, which were booked with CO; neither our Mariner status nor our booking date made a difference.)

 

We now know that HAL simply doesn't care how that "newly enforced" policy affects us as people, as families, as Mariners, or as future cruisers.

[ontheweb]

9 hours ago, Windsailer said:

Once this new policy started being discussed - and in spite of the inaccurate answer from the Customer Service agent above - I made sure that when I booked a new cruise I was not in a cabin that was allowed three or four people. 

However, this doesn't help with the problem I have now. I have CO on two of my cruises this year - both were booked in 2023 - and in talking to Ship Inventory i selected a cabin I liked. I wasn't told that the cabin slept more than two people. In March, when this new polcy started being discussed, discovering both cabins were triples, I tried to switch both those cabins to doubles. But was told by my TA and HAL directly that I was only allowed to select my cabin once with CO and since I had already done that I couldn't move. More than a bit frustrating. 

What an inconsistent policy. They want to make sure cabins for more than 2 are available for 3 or 4 passengers, but do not allow you to help this process along.

[shadow 123]

14 hours ago, Windsailer said:

All of you might find the following interesting. Note the date. 

 

Sent: Monday, March 25, 2024 at 02:58:35 PM HST

Subject: Chat transcript #84064120

 

2024-03-25T17:39:21-07:00, Carol : Begin Conversation
2024-03-25T17:39:39-07:00, agent: Thank you for visiting Holland America Line Chat. My name is Shaina and I'll be more than happy to look into your inquiries.
2024-03-25T17:41:09-07:00, Carol : Is it true that if I, as a solo, book a cabin that is designated as a triple of quad, I can't be "bumped" from that cabin if, say, a family of 4, wants it?
2024-03-25T17:41:27-07:00, Carol : I mean I can be bumped.
2024-03-25T17:41:58-07:00, agent: Sorry, what do you mean bumped?
2024-03-25T17:42:23-07:00, Carol : HAL can remove me from the cabin and give the cabin to the family of 4.
2024-03-25T17:42:37-07:00, agent: No.
2024-03-25T17:42:59-07:00, Carol : Are you positive? I heard that it's a new HAL policy.
2024-03-25T17:43:13-07:00, agent: If you are assigned to a cabin, that is yours. We don't removed guests to an assigned cabin.
2024-03-25T17:43:17-07:00, agent: No.
2024-03-25T17:43:43-07:00, agent: I mean no that is not the new policy of Holland America Line.
2024-03-25T17:43:50-07:00, agent: If you are assigned to a cabin, that is yours. We don't removed guests to an assigned cabin.
2024-03-25T17:44:20-07:00, Carol : Then why are people who are now booking cabins being told by HAL that is a posibilty?
2024-03-25T17:44:47-07:00, agent: Are you sure that is came from holland America line not to a travel agency?
2024-03-25T17:45:18-07:00, Carol : Yes.
2024-03-25T17:45:25-07:00, Carol : Yes.
2024-03-25T17:45:46-07:00, agent: If you are assigned to a cabin, that is yours. We don't removed guests to an assigned cabin.
 

 

Yet another example of HAL not being honest with its customers. 

Thank you. This about sums that up. I always book a room Because of location. I don't care about the size. Also, I need a room with a shower only. My days of climbing over a tub are over. I would be so disappointed If they change my room....

Edited August 20 by shadow 123

[Wehwalt]

11 hours ago, forevercruising1 said:

We now know that HAL simply doesn't care how that "newly enforced" policy affects us as people, as families, as Mariners, or as future cruisers.

HAL is a sophisticated business that is dependent on its customers and does not go out of its way to offend them. Plainly they have decided that the added revenues from matching cabin capacity to size of party on certain cruises is worth the blowback from a few passengers, whatever their mariner status. Grandfathering would be nice but either it isn't feasible or they don't want to. It's a shame but now we know this is one of the rules of the game and can act accordingly from here on in. Some may choose not to play given the new rules. That's always an option. But it isn't personal.

[SilvertoGold]

16 hours ago, Windsailer said:

All of you might find the following interesting. Note the date. 

 

Sent: Monday, March 25, 2024 at 02:58:35 PM HST

Subject: Chat transcript #84064120

 

2024-03-25T17:39:21-07:00, Carol : Begin Conversation
2024-03-25T17:39:39-07:00, agent: Thank you for visiting Holland America Line Chat. My name is Shaina and I'll be more than happy to look into your inquiries.
2024-03-25T17:41:09-07:00, Carol : Is it true that if I, as a solo, book a cabin that is designated as a triple of quad, I can't be "bumped" from that cabin if, say, a family of 4, wants it?
2024-03-25T17:41:27-07:00, Carol : I mean I can be bumped.
2024-03-25T17:41:58-07:00, agent: Sorry, what do you mean bumped?
2024-03-25T17:42:23-07:00, Carol : HAL can remove me from the cabin and give the cabin to the family of 4.
2024-03-25T17:42:37-07:00, agent: No.
2024-03-25T17:42:59-07:00, Carol : Are you positive? I heard that it's a new HAL policy.
2024-03-25T17:43:13-07:00, agent: If you are assigned to a cabin, that is yours. We don't removed guests to an assigned cabin.
2024-03-25T17:43:17-07:00, agent: No.
2024-03-25T17:43:43-07:00, agent: I mean no that is not the new policy of Holland America Line.
2024-03-25T17:43:50-07:00, agent: If you are assigned to a cabin, that is yours. We don't removed guests to an assigned cabin.
2024-03-25T17:44:20-07:00, Carol : Then why are people who are now booking cabins being told by HAL that is a posibilty?
2024-03-25T17:44:47-07:00, agent: Are you sure that is came from holland America line not to a travel agency?
2024-03-25T17:45:18-07:00, Carol : Yes.
2024-03-25T17:45:25-07:00, Carol : Yes.
2024-03-25T17:45:46-07:00, agent: If you are assigned to a cabin, that is yours. We don't removed guests to an assigned cabin.
 

 

Yet another example of HAL not being honest with its customers. 

I think this could be about the term "assigned cabin" ("If you are assigned to a cabin, that is yours"). Maybe the rep thinks the question is about a Guarentee assignment? I can't imagine HAL making the mistake of assigning a Guarentee solo or couple to a triple or quad in the first place.

Edited August 20 by SilvertoGold

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, Wehwalt said:

HAL is a sophisticated business that is dependent on its customers and does not go out of its way to offend them. Plainly they have decided that the added revenues from matching cabin capacity to size of party on certain cruises is worth the blowback from a few passengers, whatever their mariner status. Grandfathering would be nice but either it isn't feasible or they don't want to. It's a shame but now we know this is one of the rules of the game and can act accordingly from here on in. Some may choose not to play given the new rules. That's always an option. But it isn't personal.

 

I suspect it's feasibility. They've changed the algorithm and don't know how to program in exceptions to grandfather older bookings.