EES and P&O cruisers

[kalos]

I have noted that Europe will be starting the EES (Entry and Exit  System) 

That means UK resident folk will need a €6 for a 3 year visa ? 

 

@molecrochip  Has anyone at  P&O got any updates of how this could affect future cruisers ?

[david63]

All the information that I have read about this would seem to indicate that the EU don't know how to operate it at cruise ports. If every passenger has to be processed off and then back on then with a ship carrying 3,000 passengers it would take (using one terminal at 15 seconds per passenger) 12.5 hours each way!

9 minutes ago, kalos said:

UK resident folk will need a €6 for a 3 year visa

Although free if you are over 70

[Mike Senior]

No mention of any costs associated with EES compliance, are you confusing it with the proposed ETIAS system? https://travel-europe.europa.eu/etias_en

[FangedRose]

2 minutes ago, david63 said:

All the information that I have read about this would seem to indicate that the EU don't know how to operate it at cruise ports. If every passenger has to be processed off and then back on then with a ship carrying 3,000 passengers it would take (using one terminal at 15 seconds per passenger) 12.5 hours each way!

Although free if you are over 70

They do that if visiting USA on a cruise ship.

[kalos]

1 minute ago, david63 said:

All the information that I have read about this would seem to indicate that the EU don't know how to operate it at cruise ports. If every passenger has to be processed off and then back on then with a ship carrying 3,000 passengers it would take (using one terminal at 15 seconds per passenger) 12.5 hours each way!

Although free if you are over 70

 

Nah still classed as a young un for a few years and then most travel insurances will be waiting to up my travel costs anyway .

[david63]

1 minute ago, FangedRose said:

They do that if visiting USA on a cruise ship.

Yes - but only once on the first entry to the USA - and even then it takes nearly all day. Theoretically EES would need to be done at every port.

[kalos]

14 minutes ago, Mike Senior said:

No mention of any costs associated with EES compliance, are you confusing it with the proposed ETIAS system? https://travel-europe.europa.eu/etias_en

 

TBH  no idea ,that's why I hope Moley and P&O can say whats happening with cruisers ?

 

I had a read at this ..

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/more-travel-red-tape-next-105709233.html

[Son of Anarchy]

13 minutes ago, david63 said:

Yes - but only once on the first entry to the USA - and even then it takes nearly all day. Theoretically EES would need to be done at every port.

When we went to Ft Lauderdale and Honolulu on Arcadia we were off the ship in less than an half an hour from when we went started the immigration stuff. At  Ft Lauderdale we ashore before the shuttle bus started to operate

 

Unlike Boston last year.  Nightmare queuing 😠

[Son of Anarchy]

We did Arcadia's worldie this year.  Countries like New Zealand and Oz require visas, but there was no stamping of passports or face to face inspection of passports.  Presumably the manifest containing passengers details is checked by the those countries against their database of valid visas, and hey presto you're in.

 

Don't see why the EU can't do the same.  They currently don't stamp cruise passengers passports who are visiting for only a day.anyway.

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, FangedRose said:

They do that if visiting USA on a cruise ship.

Let's hope the EU agree to allow the current ships passenger passport approval to also approve the Etias entry.

[yorkshirephil]

2 hours ago, kalos said:

I have noted that Europe will be starting the EES (Entry and Exit  System) 

That means UK resident folk will need a €6 for a 3 year visa ? 

 

@molecrochip  Has anyone at  P&O got any updates of how this could affect future cruisers ?

There is no cost to passengers for EES the fee is for the ETIAS which is scheduled to start 2025 after several delays. The EES is supposed to track entry and exit and starts on November 10th 2024 after being put back several times, I have been monitoring the EES as it was supposed to apply to us in October but the French had it delayed until the Olympics were completed. In theory it should work fine but it probably depends how difficult the EU want to make it for us.

[jeanlyon]

This is from P&O website

 

ETIAS Update

In the near future, British nationals travelling to the EU will be required to obtain an ETIAS travel authorisation prior to sailing with P&O Cruises for all itineraries that include an EU port. This travel authorisation is a new EU regulation and will be proactively enforced. As with all visa and passport requirements, applying for the ETIAS travel authorisation is the responsibility of the travelling guest. The current time frame for this new regulation to come into effect is May 2025, and for any guests sailing to the EU in 2025, further information will be communicated in due course as it becomes available.

For more information please visit - https://travel-europe.europa.eu/etias_en

 

However, that link does not appear to work!!

Edited August 25 by jeanlyon

[Eglesbrech]

https://travel-europe.europa.eu/etias/what-etias_en
 

Above is a link to some information, interestingly they say you should not book travel before you have one. Difficult as it’s just being introduced. I suspect that there will be a massive rush of applications in the early days.

 

“Apply for an ETIAS travel authorisation well in advance – before you buy your ticket or book your accommodation”

[Megabear2]

2 hours ago, yorkshirephil said:

There is no cost to passengers for EES the fee is for the ETIAS which is scheduled to start 2025 after several delays. The EES is supposed to track entry and exit and starts on November 10th 2024 after being put back several times, I have been monitoring the EES as it was supposed to apply to us in October but the French had it delayed until the Olympics were completed. In theory it should work fine but it probably depends how difficult the EU want to make it for us.

In fairness it's not just us. Just every country outside Schengen.

[nosapphire]

5 hours ago, david63 said:

Theoretically EES would need to be done at every port.

Possibly not. My reading is that the EES applies when entering the Schengen zone, so only at the first port of entry.

It seems that for cruise passengers, the "90 days in 180 days" starts at the first Schengen port, includes days at sea when travelling between Schengen ports and ends when departing the last Schengen port to return home/visit a port outside the Zone.

So - probably - (I hope) the same system applies for the EES - register entry once at the first Schengen port, departure recorded when leaving the last Schengen port.

Going to be very very interesting..... although cruise operators may be using more florid terms..😟

 

[Snow Hill]

1 hour ago, nosapphire said:

Possibly not. My reading is that the EES applies when entering the Schengen zone, so only at the first port of entry.

It seems that for cruise passengers, the "90 days in 180 days" starts at the first Schengen port, includes days at sea when travelling between Schengen ports and ends when departing the last Schengen port to return home/visit a port outside the Zone.

So - probably - (I hope) the same system applies for the EES - register entry once at the first Schengen port, departure recorded when leaving the last Schengen port.

Going to be very very interesting..... although cruise operators may be using more florid terms..😟

 

That’s my understanding of it to.

 

The logical place to capture the biometric data would be at checkin, if check in was in a non Schengen country. Whether cruise companies would want to do that is another question. At Dover and Eurotunnel it will be French immigration collecting the information.

 

i sure more will come out in the coming weeks in preparation for its launch and how cruise passengers will be dealt with.

 

 

 

 

[Funboy]

7 hours ago, david63 said:

All the information that I have read about this would seem to indicate that the EU don't know how to operate it at cruise ports. If every passenger has to be processed off and then back on then with a ship carrying 3,000 passengers it would take (using one terminal at 15 seconds per passenger) 12.5 hours each way!

Although free if you are over 70

But you still have to register on arrival and departure.

[terrierjohn]

54 minutes ago, Funboy said:

But you still have to register on arrival and departure.

Passengers already register on arrival at Southampton and your passport is recorded and certainly your Etias data should be attached to your passport. However I have read nothing about how the EU intends to handle the biometric checks for cruise ship passengers to satisfy the EES requirements.

[kalos]

6 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

However I have read nothing about how the EU intends to handle the biometric checks for cruise ship passengers to satisfy the EES requirements.

Yep all seems up in the air at the moment ,come 10th November we may get some answers.

[zoe sproodle]

I’m wondering how this is going to work on our Ventura cruise in November. We are due in La Palma on the 10th when the EES is due to start but having called at Madeira the day before will already be in the Schengen zone. As the scheme seems to be for first entry does this mean it won’t affect us?

[jeanlyon]

It doesn't start until may 2025 at the earliest.

[Snow Hill]

7 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

It doesn't start until may 2025 at the earliest.

That’s ETIAS that starts in May, the visa waiver system, the entry exit system EES starts on 10 November

 

https://schengen.news/eu-confirms-official-entry-exit-system-launch-date/

Edited August 26 by Snow Hill

[9265359]

On 8/25/2024 at 2:09 PM, kalos said:

I have noted that Europe will be starting the EES (Entry and Exit  System) 

That means UK resident folk will need a €6 for a 3 year visa ? 

 

To start with you are confusing EES and ETIAS, which are two different systems.

 

Firstly EES (Entry Exit System), this has an announced start date of the 10th November 2024 and there is no charge for it.

 

With EES, if you are a non-EU citizen then on your first entry to the Schengen Area your fingerprints and a photo will be taken by the border guards at the Schengen Area airport or at Dover (etc.) or St Pancras.

 

The purpose of EES is to monitor the time spent in the Schengen Area and to ensure that the 90/180 day rule is correctly enforced, plus removing the need to 'wet stamp' passports.

 

Unlike now, the border guard won't need to try to look at all the stamps in the passport to try to calculate how long someone has spent in the Schengen Area, the system will simply tell them when they put the passport in the scanner.

 

Individuals will have access to a website so they can see how long they have spent in the Schengen Area and how long they have left in the current rolling 180 day period so they don't inadvertently break the rules.

 

EES is also designed to work with family members of EU citizens and ensure that they time they spend in the Schengen Area with their EU family member does not count towards the 90 day limit (it does if they are there on their own).

 

Turning to the impact of EES for cruise passengers (not ETIAS which is covered below)

 

For round trip cruises starting and ending at non-Schengen ports, e.g. a cruise starting and ending at Southampton, then EES will not be required at port stops in Schengen countries - exactly the same as you don't have to go through passport control now - cruises are a low risk for the Schengen Area because you are scanned on and off the ship and the ship has to report if you have not got back onboard.

 

For cruises starting at a non-Schengen port and ending at a Schengen port, e.g. a repositioning cruise from Southampton to Barcelona, then EES will be required at Barcelona, because you have simply used a cruise ship as a method of transport from A to B.

 

For cruises starting at a Schengen port then EES will be required but that will be at the airport you fly into (or whatever other means you take to get to that Schengen country.

 

Thus for any P&O passengers doing Southampton to Southampton cruises then they will not be troubled by EES.

 

Now for ETIAS (European Travel Information and Authorisation System) which does not have an announced start date.

 

ETIAS is a 'travel authorisation' and although it isn't a visa or a visa waiver it has pretty much the same effect - you don't have one then you are not getting in!

 

The purpose of ETIAS is so the Schengen Area countries have some control on the type of people entering with a passport as the ETIAS application contains details on your background, employment, criminal convictions etc. 

 

Once in operation then non-EU citizens will need to apply before they travel to the Schengen Area and it has a cost of 7 euros unless you are under 18, over 70, or a family member of an EU citizen.

 

There is no announced start date for ETIAS but the indications are - 

 

- You will be able to apply from May 2025 for an ETIAS but importantly there will be no requirement to have one for another six months, likely to be up to November 2025.

 

- From November 2025 you will be required to have an ETIAS but you will be allowed into the Schengen Area once and once only provided everything else is OK, and this state will last for six months up to May 2026.

 

- From May 2026 you will be required to have an ETIAS and there will be no allowance if you don't.

 

But as before, all those dates are not certain yet and may yet move.

 

Turning to the impact of ETIAS for cruise passengers (not EES which is covered above)

 

For round trip cruises starting and ending at non-Schengen ports, e.g. a cruise starting and ending at Southampton, then an ETIAS will be required if the ship has port stops in Schengen countries.

 

For cruises starting at a non-Schengen port and ending at a Schengen port, e.g. a repositioning cruise from Southampton to Barcelona, then an ETIAS will be required.

 

For cruises starting at a Schengen port then an ETIAS will be required but that will be at the airport you fly into (or whatever other means you take to get to that Schengen country.

 

Thus for any P&O passengers doing Southampton to Southampton cruises then they will need an ETIAS if there are any Schengen Area port stops.

 

In summary, EES will make no difference to almost anyone using P&O, because either it will not apply (Southampton to Southampton) or it will be dealt with at the airport on a fly cruise into Malta or Tenerife.

 

However ETIAS will make a difference and look out for 'sad faced posts' from people denied boarding at Southampton or denied boarding an aircraft for a fly-cruise, when the firm requirement kicks in.

 

And lastly, for those who are fortunate enough to be EU citizens (or dual UK and EU) then neither EES or ETIAS will trouble you if you travel on your EU passport - and importantly, it doesn't matter if you are an Irish citizen as Ireland is a non-Schengen country due to the 'common travel area' with the UK, the same is true and EES and ETIAS is irrelevant.

 

Plus your non-EU spouse (and children under age 21), although they will need to do EES and do ETIAS (unless they have residency in a Schengen Area country) can go with you through the EU passport controls and as mentioned above are not limited to the 90 days if you are somewhere in the Schengen Area (it doesn't need to be the same country) at the same time.

 

Confused - I am not surprised!

 

Edited August 26 by 9265359

[cruising.mark.uk]

21 minutes ago, 9265359 said:

 

To start with you are confusing EES and ETIAS, which are two different systems.

 

 

Thank you.  That is the clearest and most comprehensive explanation I've seen anywhere.

 

Just one question: am I correct in thinking that it is the EES that has the requirement for photos and biometric data collection attached and that, in line with your explanation, those are not therefore going to have any impact on Southampton to Southampton cruise passengers?

Edited August 26 by cruising.mark.uk
Oops - just noticed you answered my question in your post!

[9265359]

Just now, cruising.mark.uk said:

Thank you.  That is the clearest and most comprehensive explanation I've seen anywhere.

 

Happy to help, as there seems to be a lot of confusion on the subject - not just here but in the media generally.

 

1 minute ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

am I correct in thinking that it is the EES that has the requirement for photos and biometric data collection attached and that, in line with your explanation, those are not therefore going to have any impact on Southampton to Southampton cruise passengers?

 

Absolutely correct.

 

EES biometric data can only be captured by an EU border guard, so nothing could be done at Southampton whatever happened.

 

And as the purpose of EES is to know who is in the Schengen Area then if you failed to get back on board then your details would be passed to the authorities on shore so they would know then - plus when you tried to leave the Schengen Area to return back to the UK after failing to get back on board you would be caught by the exit checks not seeing you arrive.

 

EES really isn't going to be an issue, other than for queues at Schengen airport passport / ferry port / Eurotunnel control for the first year as people are scanned onto the system.

 

It is ETIAS that is going to be an issue, particularly for the over 70s (or those with children) where there is highly likely to be misunderstandings that no fee does not mean no requirement to have an ETIAS - or other variations, such as "well I never get off the ship so why do I need one", etc.