Interesting Comment on new ship.

Just read this on the X board

Originally Posted by luv2cruisecats View Post

Just returned from the canal cruise on 3/29/15 and heard some interesting comments during the passage. Standing on deck in a lock and watched the Azamara Journey slip into the adjacent lock. I commented to the fellow next to me that the Journey looked "well used" and he said that after 2017 the Infinity will be re-branded as an Azamara after undergoing extensive upgrades!

Maybe all 4 M class ships will change? I did not ask anyone on board if the above is true so don't consider this factual. Anyone else hear anything about this?

How does this sound, might make me try AZ as I love the M class ships

Just read this on the X board

 

Originally Posted by luv2cruisecats View Post

Just returned from the canal cruise on 3/29/15 and heard some interesting comments during the passage. Standing on deck in a lock and watched the Azamara Journey slip into the adjacent lock. I commented to the fellow next to me that the Journey looked "well used" and he said that after 2017 the Infinity will be re-branded as an Azamara after undergoing extensive upgrades!

 

Maybe all 4 M class ships will change? I did not ask anyone on board if the above is true so don't consider this factual. Anyone else hear anything about this?

 

How does this sound, might make me try AZ as I love the M class ships

Hi Hypercafe,

As this is now a topic of discussion on this forum, I thought it appropriate to post my reply to the above post, which is also posted on the Celebrity forum :

==========================

Hi Luv2cruisecats,

Azamara graciously invited me onboard Journey for Lunch yesterday in Miami. I enjoyed lunch with Azamara's President, Larry Pimentel, and Journey's Captain (Johannes Tysse) and Hotel Director Heike Berdos who worked for Celebrity several years ago. Here's a link to my onboard report, on the Azamara forum : http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2190563

Responding to your comments :

1. I thought the ship looked absolutely beautiful, and not worn at all. In addition, both ships will be having extensive upgrades. Quest will happen later this year, and in January 2016 on Journey.

2. As for Azamara getting 1 or more of the M-Class ships ? I'd say don't bet on it. Personally ? I'd love to see it happen.... but Azamara has been asked this question on many occasions, and the answer remains that the M-Class ships are too large for what Azamara loves to offer. Could it eventually happen ? I suppose anything is possible - depending on whether Celebrity decides to hold on to the M-Class as the new Edge class of Celebrity ships make their debut in 2018 and 2020. To me, that's the big question - whether Celebrity will keep the M-Class and expand, or, say goodbye to the M-Class, as the Edge class rolls out.

There's a lot of moving pieces to this puzzle, but I'd be surprised if we hear anything for a while.

How can you offer up the same experience on ships that hold 2,000 or more passengers to ships that holds 1/3 of that amount?

Maybe the best bet for expansion is a purchase of the Pacific Princess.

How can you offer up the same experience on ships that hold 2,000 or more passengers to ships that holds 1/3 of that amount?

 

Maybe the best bet for expansion is a purchase of the Pacific Princess.

Is not the ship that Oceania just bought from Princess?

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Is not the ship that Oceania just bought from Princess?

 

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Oceania bought ex R-Ship Ocean Princess. Speculation is that sister Pacific Princess is next to be sold. We really enjoyed our times on Pacific Princess.

Oceania bought ex R-Ship Ocean Princess. Speculation is that sister Pacific Princess is next to be sold. We really enjoyed our times on Pacific Princess.

Speculation is also that Oceania will snap it up. That only leaves one R-ship in the wild: R-8, currently sailing as P&O Adonia (a sister-line to Princess). No rumors on that one yet.

Could extensive upgrades on a M class ship mean re-configuring cabins - combining 2 cabins to create larger cabins...which could reduce the passenger count in half or reduce the count considerably? Sounds like it would be a lot of work but I do agree that the M class ship are elegant and while they are much larger then the current 2 ships...could be interesting option. What about the smaller ports though - could they handle M class ships? WOuld make sense keeping them in the "family".

Could extensive upgrades on a M class ship mean re-configuring cabins - combining 2 cabins to create larger cabins...which could reduce the passenger count in half or reduce the count considerably? Sounds like it would be a lot of work but I do agree that the M class ship are elegant and while they are much larger then the current 2 ships...could be interesting option. What about the smaller ports though - could they handle M class ships? WOuld make sense keeping them in the "family".

The cabins on the M-class are already as large or larger than those on the R-ships Azamara now sails. Inside: R=158, M=170. Oceanview: R and M both = 170. Veranda: R=175+40-64, M=170-191+38-54 (and M also has Concierge @ 191, Aquaclass @ 195 and Family Veranda @ 271) -- before we get to the suites). M-class also has more and larger suites than the R-ships.

The real issue would be bringing the crew up to the right ratio for Azamara. M=class ratio = 2.0, while Azamara = 1.7. My calculations show a need for about 29 more crew cabins, which you could get easily by taking the 12 forward-most oceanview cabins (and corresponding insides) on decks 2 and 3, which are all forward of the forward elevators and could easily be sealed off with a fire door [if you would be OK with the "help" using the passenger corridors to get to work... Not cricket according to Downton Abbey, I know, but this is the 21st Century!].

That would produce 1-4 "new" ships for Azamara with 1,892 passengers and 1,057 crew for a slightly better ratio than the R-ships have now [there's actually room to make the ratio even better by taking another 8 cabins for crew before you get to the forward elevators].

Since the M-class ships are already lovely [the specialty restaurants have classic decor taken from classic ocean liners and the ships are filled with original artwork commissioned during their building], you really wouldn't need much in the way of upgrading. Yes, they are three times the size of the R-ships -- but they can still sail into Venice and lots of other places. I think I'd much rather have that than the Adonis, which is in who-knows-what condition and subject to the same wonky plumbing as all R-ships.

The real problem with this scenario is that Celebrity doesn't have any good reason to get rid of the M-class. They started building the S-class in 2008 and are only now getting rid of the last of the Century class, and they have so far only commissioned 2 Edge-class ships (for 2018 and 2020). They can easily accommodate this new inventory as Century departs. They probably won't think about the M-class until Edge has reached 5 ships, which would be 2025 at the earliest. Azamara needs a solution way before that!

The bigger problem with Infinity's size is that the ship cannot get into many of the smaller places that makes Azamara such a unique itinerary

A Celebrity-sized ship would be a horror for Azamara. Please say no to this. Might as well cruise Celebrity--except, of course, for the ridiculous dress code and that half the passengers march lock-step to the traditional dining scheduled meals. Awful.

Just off 35 days on Ocean Princess. Needs a lot of work. Outdoor buffet has no Sunset Bar and removing it ruins the ambiance. Area looks like a typical cafeteria with rows of tables everywhere. Stairway, four service boxes on the wall (hose, emergency telephone, etc.) stand out like sore thumbs. Service area on port side (coffee, juice machines, etc.) are visible everywhere, making it look like a high school cafeteria.

Removing the bar added four tables to the middle row of tables, but adding two service busing areas against the wall removed two tables from the row of tables nearest the buffet area. Net gain: two tables. Not worth it given the awful appearance.

What AZ needs are ships like O class on Oceania, or the new Viking ships or the Europa2, or the new Regent ship. All depends what RCI wands to do and spend. I think the R ships are played out, getting old with very small cabins and public spaces.

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Shock, horror....... if Azamara takes on bigger ships.

About 600 passengers is ideal for the type of unique experience that Azamara is renowned for.

As has already been pointed out smaller ships can get into places where large ships don't even try.

And isn't it just great to see about 50 buses all lined up on the dock waiting for those 2000 plus passengers. Sadly many are going to the same destination. Wall to wall people!!!!!!!!

So for anyone even suggesting it, how about cruising with a different Company.

How can you offer up the same experience on ships that hold 2,000 or more passengers to ships that holds 1/3 of that amount?

 

It's quite simple....you don't.

Azamara's thing is "Destination Immersion". You can't do that to the same extent with ships as big as the Infinity.

IIRC Captain Johannes' comments onboard the March 21 sailing to Miami reiterated this approach and while he claims not to have any insight into the future plans, his feeling was that Azamara will stay with the small ship concept and "new" ships might be a little bigger but perhaps not much more than a thousand passengers.

Shock, horror....... if Azamara takes on bigger ships.

About 600 passengers is ideal for the type of unique experience that Azamara is renowned for.

As has already been pointed out smaller ships can get into places where large ships don't even try.

And isn't it just great to see about 50 buses all lined up on the dock waiting for those 2000 plus passengers. Sadly many are going to the same destination. Wall to wall people!!!!!!!!

So for anyone even suggesting it, how about cruising with a different Company.

Amen to that!! I just got off a month on the Infinity(my first and ONLY Celebrity Cruise!) and the food was awful, the service was even worse, and getting on and off tenders and the ship was crazy. And what you said about tour buses is so true. We were next to the Journey going through the Panama Canal, and I was ready to jump ship to get on the Journey.:D 650 - 700 passengers is ideal, and a hallmark of Azamara. I hope they never change that.

Just found this thread. OMG, just the thought of Azamara trying to sail with 2000 pax ships -- talk about killing the goose that laid the golden egg! Waaay too big, for numerous reasons (all discussed in this thread). You'd lose us for sure - and Azamara is one of our favorite lines.

We were on the Journey Dec. '13 and when asked about fleet expansion, Capt. Tysse said Azamara was NOT going to remain a 2-ship line, but was mum on new build vs. acquisition. He did say that there were some possible ships "available". Probably referring to Princess's two R ships. And Oceania has since announced buying the Ocean Princess.

We'll be on the Journey (again) in early June. I'll see if there's any more info on additional ships (purchase existing or [preferably, in my mind] a new build).

The bigger problem with Infinity's size is that the ship cannot get into many of the smaller places that makes Azamara such a unique itinerary

so true! so true! I have seen Celebrity in dock with this line but not at the out of the way places. forget sailing up or down a river in many ports. never will happen.. maybe 1000 people but no more please.

Interesting chatter on Quest recently that Azamara were going for another ship most likely a R ship and were "aware" of the 2 Carnival have for sale.

Couple that with the fact that P&O have omitted Adonia (R8) from it's 2016 brochure, saying that it will be in the Caribbean for a fly-cruise summer season (really??) and are working on itineraries but without a release date.

This might be a case of two and two making five but Adonia would be a perfect fit as it is an identical build to Journey (R6) and Quest (R7) as the last 3 R ships had a different configuration to Deck 8 than the first 5.

I appreciate Oceania have stated that they would like all the R ships but reading the latest Carnival accounts they actually provided the finance to enable Oceania to purchase Ocean Princess so might not be too keen on providing further finance to them.

Let's hope there will be some good news in the near future;)

Azamara with 2000 PAX isn't Azamara.

Azamara with 2000 PAX isn't Azamara.

Perhaps not, but it could be something wonderful. The M-class are beautiful ships, cabins are larger than Azamara pax are used to, increasing crew cabins to Azamara ratio would reduce pax load and thereby improve space ratio. Just because no one else has done luxury for 2,000 doesn't mean it can't be done -- and the economies of scale could mean very attractive pricing.

Perhaps not, but it could be something wonderful. The M-class are beautiful ships, cabins are larger than Azamara pax are used to, increasing crew cabins to Azamara ratio would reduce pax load and thereby improve space ratio. Just because no one else has done luxury for 2,000 doesn't mean it can't be done -- and the economies of scale could mean very attractive pricing.

we all left the alrge and jumbo ships for small ships. No way would msot of us sail on a large ship. . not the ratio but the fact we would know no one and they would not know us. .

Perhaps not, but it could be something wonderful. The M-class are beautiful ships, cabins are larger than Azamara pax are used to, increasing crew cabins to Azamara ratio would reduce pax load and thereby improve space ratio. Just because no one else has done luxury for 2,000 doesn't mean it can't be done -- and the economies of scale could mean very attractive pricing.

You are missing the point that Infinity couldn't go to many of the ports that Quest and Journey can (Ho Chi Minh, centre of Hong Kong, Syracuse, Seville, Portofino, the list goes on) and that is part of what makes Azamara so special. Economies of scale or not.

Phil

Perhaps not, but it could be something wonderful. The M-class are beautiful ships, cabins are larger than Azamara pax are used to, increasing crew cabins to Azamara ratio would reduce pax load and thereby improve space ratio. Just because no one else has done luxury for 2,000 doesn't mean it can't be done -- and the economies of scale could mean very attractive pricing.

I'm sure you can achieve "luxury" on a 2000 passenger ship. I doubt if you could achieve the Azamara experience we've come to know and love. Simply too many people on-board, in port, tendering, and so on. Yuck.

You are missing the point that Infinity couldn't go to many of the ports that Quest and Journey can (Ho Chi Minh, centre of Hong Kong, Syracuse, Seville, Portofino, the list goes on) and that is part of what makes Azamara so special. Economies of scale or not.

 

Phil

Well said! If Azamara went to M class sized, very few itineraries would appeal to me

Interesting chatter on Quest recently that Azamara were going for another ship most likely a R ship and were "aware" of the 2 Carnival have for sale.

 

Couple that with the fact that P&O have omitted Adonia (R8) from it's 2016 brochure, saying that it will be in the Caribbean for a fly-cruise summer season (really??) and are working on itineraries but without a release date.

 

This might be a case of two and two making five but Adonia would be a perfect fit as it is an identical build to Journey (R6) and Quest (R7) as the last 3 R ships had a different configuration to Deck 8 than the first 5.

 

I appreciate Oceania have stated that they would like all the R ships but reading the latest Carnival accounts they actually provided the finance to enable Oceania to purchase Ocean Princess so might not be too keen on providing further finance to them.

 

Let's hope there will be some good news in the near future;)

P&O's Adonai sounds like a perfect fit with a little refurb! Reading the P&O site, their explanation of lack of additional Adonia itineraries sounds a bit vague.