Teen accuses RCI employee of rape

[EV2008]

Well he did not force her to drink? I feel bad for her but she needs to take responsibilty for putting herself in this situation.

[BillOh]

The FBI was all over it. They did not find anything. Anybody can file a lawsuit that don't make it true.

 

Its worth mentioning the rules of civil court (in most) are different and proof of a crime doesn't have to exist.

[Scottee25]

Its worth mentioning the rules of civil court (in most) are different and proof of a crime doesn't have to exist.

 

It is also worth noting that the civil case has been filed against Royal and not the musician... gotta follow the money!

[Janet524]

Very sad and upsetting for this young girl. But my question is...Where were the parents when she was hanging out in a bar?

[MrsFixitCT]

Three sides to every story...his, hers and the truth.

[akcruz]

While I feel terrible for this girl, I too wonder where the parents were.

 

Unfortunately it goes to show how some kids are being raised in today's world. My DD was on her high school field hockey team and came home after Saturday practices commenting on the number of girls that didn't feel well at practice (due to the parties the night before). If parents allow this during normal day to day activities, I can just image what some of them will allow on vacation.

 

I think this is a warning to all to know what your kids are doing both at home and while on vacation.

[richstowe]

Quote"The incident was reported to the FBI, but no criminal charges appear to have been filed."

Everything one needs to know.

I'm betting she was 18 and regretting what happened, therefore the lawsuit.

Bet the lawyer believes RCI will pay big just to have this "case" go away.

[daisy-mae]

Very sad and upsetting for this young girl. But my question is...Where were the parents when she was hanging out in a bar?

 

 

If, as someone has suggested, she was likely at least 18 years old, would that not be the legal drinking age in some states? In our province, for example, the age of majority is 18. So she could probably just as easily have gone to a bar -- without her parents' knowledge or consent - in her home town.

 

The article states that she was listening to the band. I'm not familiar with this particular ship, but on most of the cruises I've been on, there are bands playing at a number of venues, including poolside or in other public places such as the atrium or the promenade. Just because the entertainer bought drinks from the bar does not mean that the girl was physically present inside a drinking establishment.

[wrp96]

The filing of a civil suit tells me there are no criminal charges pending.

 

 

Not to me. You can file a civil suit with a criminal suit pending. In this case, Royal Caribbean wouldn't even be part of the criminal charges (if any were filed) so criminal vs. civil wouldn't matter.

 

As to the timing, filing the suit now can give them a means of getting access to evidence and getting testimony and they don't risk missing a statute of limitations deadline.

 

It's best to wait until everything works it way through the system (both criminal and civil) before making a judgment.

[Scottee25]

As to the timing, filing the suit now can give them a means of getting access to evidence and getting testimony and they don't risk missing a statute of limitations deadline.

Access to what evidence? The civil suit is filed against RCI, not the musician. Even if they call the musician to testify, he doesn't have to give up his 5th Amendment right. How much do you think he will really say on the stand? My gut tells me that RCI settles and no criminal charges are ever brought.

[Schooner Bar Girl]

Rape could have certainly happened without the FBI pursuing charges. The girl more than likely went back willingly to his cabin. However the drinks made for her could be low end dark liquor based drinks and they can affect one drastically if not used to drinking such drinks. Also he may have ordered her over proof drinks or even added something to her drinks. All is speculation and something we will never know.

 

That said I am sure that even if the girl did go back to his cabin willingly she most likely never realized that another man taking photos would be there also. If she was drunk enough the other man may even have participated without her knowledge. ANY man having sex with a girl that is so drunk she doesn't know what is happening is guilty of taking advantage at the very least. Rape doesn't have to be violent to be rape. Consent may not have been given in she was overly intoxicated and therefore it would be rape. At any point if she asked him to stop and he continued than rape still occurred. In this case the girl made the wrong choices also but that doesn't mean she still wasn't a victim.

 

Bottom line.......just because there weren't charges it doesn't mean that she was not a victim of rape.

[Raenstoirm]

As nearly a forensic psychologist (I finish grad school in a few weeks), I can tell you how this all went down (they are always the same sadly). She is most likely 18, so legal to have sex. She saw a cute musician, got drunk, went back to his room. Now given Royal Caribbean's policy about guests and employees, he might have been terminated just for fraternization with a passenger.

What happened in the room is the debate, she might have said no, she might just regret the action now and decided to sue. She might have panicked after the fact (perhaps about mom or dads reaction- this is very common- and claimed rape).

There would be no rape kit used in either case (rape or not). The male is known (and presumably admits having sex with the girl) and there is no physical difference in a female that has been raped verses one that has experienced consensual intercourse. There is no purpose for a rape kit.

 

Since there seems to be photographs of the situation, one can probably tell the girls "involvement" in the situation from a forensic point of view in the images. Now I do not know much about international law, but I do not think the FBI has any jurisdiction here since the ship is out of Nassau. I would think any criminal proceedings would be through the Bahaman courts. Civil proceedings can be filed anywhere.

[Lynnees]

I would hate for most of the posters here to be on any jury involving a rape victim. The majority here blame the victim and blame the parents without a whit of evidence to go on.

 

You are all speculating and putting your own spin on everything with absolutely no knowledge of anything that actually happened. You are guessing and surmising and nine of ten of you are pointing the finger at the girl because she didn't hide in her cabin the whole time she was on that ship.

 

No wonder the majority of rape cases never get reported. They victim is then victimized again - as this thread proves.

[KirkNC]

Very sad, I hope the family can get some justice.

 

Kirk

[slfong]

I would hate for most of the posters here to be on any jury involving a rape victim. The majority here blame the victim and blame the parents without a whit of evidence to go on.

 

You are all speculating and putting your own spin on everything with absolutely no knowledge of anything that actually happened. You are guessing and surmising and nine of ten of you are pointing the finger at the girl because she didn't hide in her cabin the whole time she was on that ship.

 

No wonder the majority of rape cases never get reported. They victim is then victimized again - as this thread proves.

 

 

Some of us are also saying there are multiple sides to a story and we also shouldn't immediately assume he's guilty-hence, innocent until proven guilty. While that is not the way court systems are everywhere, it is in America. He broke fraternization rules and was fired. Evidence has not been found (evidently) to charge him formally with anything so the girl is suing RCI. I could understand if she sued the musician but she's not. One would assume it's about the principle of the matter and not monetary gain. Unfortunately, that's not what is playing out since she's suing the musician's employer that clearly has a substantial amount of money.

[Aquahound]

Not to me. You can file a civil suit with a criminal suit pending. In this case, Royal Caribbean wouldn't even be part of the criminal charges (if any were filed) so criminal vs. civil wouldn't matter.

 

As to the timing, filing the suit now can give them a means of getting access to evidence and getting testimony and they don't risk missing a statute of limitations deadline.

 

It's best to wait until everything works it way through the system (both criminal and civil) before making a judgment.

 

I agree with your last statement, but in most cases, the civil suit should not be filed until after the criminal investigation and subsequent charges/trial. I am very familiar with the S. District of Florida and I do not know a single attorney in that building in Miami who would support civil proceedings while a criminal case is pending. A criminal investigation and trial does not necessarily taint a civil case (look at OJ), but if the defendant is found not liable in a civil case, it can most certainly taint the criminal case.

[madthumper]

Blaming the parents? I guess I'm the only one on this board that has ever lied to my parents about where I was going and what I was doing when I was a teenager. Even on a cruise ship I could dodge my parents for hours. Sometimes kids get themselves into bad situations and it just comes down to poor judgment on their part.

[Aquahound]

It is also worth noting that the civil case has been filed against Royal and not the musician... gotta follow the money!

 

That's actually the right way to go. The musician being an RCI employee, RCI is who you go after first. Yes, they have the deep pockets, but they were also his employer and the incident was on their property.

 

It sounds like the musician broke their fraternization policy and was subsequently fired. They may actually have a pretty good case on the civil side.

[thelion]

I would hate for most of the posters here to be on any jury involving a rape victim. The majority here blame the victim and blame the parents without a whit of evidence to go on.

 

You are all speculating and putting your own spin on everything with absolutely no knowledge of anything that actually happened. You are guessing and surmising and nine of ten of you are pointing the finger at the girl because she didn't hide in her cabin the whole time she was on that ship.

 

No wonder the majority of rape cases never get reported. They victim is then victimized again - as this thread proves.

 

She does have some responsibility to behave responsibly. Getting drunk (if she did) when she is with a a stranger is not responsible. Does this mean she asked to get raped (if she did)? Of course not and it doesn't excuse what may have happened. But it means she has to hold some responsibility for whatever happened.

 

In addition, she is not innocent. She was drinking underage. Bad move, even on a supposedly "safe" vacation.

 

Lastly, he is INNOCENT until a jury proves him GUILTY. Something many seem to have forgotten.

[Rancher Dave]

Rape could have certainly happened without the FBI pursuing charges. The girl more than likely went back willingly to his cabin. However the drinks made for her could be low end dark liquor based drinks and they can affect one drastically if not used to drinking such drinks. Also he may have ordered her over proof drinks or even added something to her drinks. All is speculation and something we will never know.

 

That said I am sure that even if the girl did go back to his cabin willingly she most likely never realized that another man taking photos would be there also. If she was drunk enough the other man may even have participated without her knowledge. ANY man having sex with a girl that is so drunk she doesn't know what is happening is guilty of taking advantage at the very least. Rape doesn't have to be violent to be rape. Consent may not have been given in she was overly intoxicated and therefore it would be rape. At any point if she asked him to stop and he continued than rape still occurred. In this case the girl made the wrong choices also but that doesn't mean she still wasn't a victim.

 

Bottom line.......just because there weren't charges it doesn't mean that she was not a victim of rape.

 

Well put!

[crusinmama06]

Where did you hear she was 15? Was it in another article?

 

Yeah, it doesn't say anywhere that she was 15. In fact, the article states she was on board celebrating her high school graduation with her family. Without evidence, sexual assault is very difficult to prosecute because it becomes one person's word against another person's.

 

Oh geesh sorry everyone!!! I don't know where I saw 15 this morning. :eek:

 

Yes, you are all right, "high school graduation" -- so that makes her anywhere from 17 - 19. I apologize for that! :o

[Rancher Dave]

A criminal investigation and trial does not necessarily taint a civil case (look at OJ), but if the defendant is found not liable in a civil case, it can most certainly taint the criminal case.

 

Very much agree since the burden of proof is not quite as strong in a civil case as criminal. Lose the Civil case on a lower burden of proof if there is no new evidence it would be pretty hard to make the criminal case.

[jmf123]

Oh geesh sorry everyone!!! I don't know where I saw 15 this morning. :eek:

 

Yes, you are all right, "high school graduation" -- so that makes her anywhere from 17 - 19. I apologize for that! :o

 

Michele, could it have been from this post on page one of this thread?:

 

15 years ago (wow that makes me feel old), the Wine Sommelier, on the Grandeur of the Seas, flirted with my daughter, who was 15 (and looked 25). The Wine Sommelier, was about 25 (guessing his age). On the 3rd night, he approached our table and ask if he could spend time with her at our next port, which was St Thomas. He was very nice and directed this question to her father... at that point, I said, "NO, she is just 15!" He immediately apologized and said he thought she was older. The rest of the trip he was nice and friendly, but not flirty. 5 yrs later, my daughter was now 20, this same Wine Sommelier was on our Freedom of the Seas cruise. He recognized her immediately and approached us again. He took "NO" (from her this time) very graciously.

I really hate that happened to that young teen and hope she is OK... I also want to say that in all the cruises we have had with two children - they started cruising as young as 6, and my DD is 30 and my DS is 23, that the staff have been nothing but exceptionally nice and professional.

 

p.s. Schooner Bar Girl, well said!

[crusinmama06]

Michele, could it have been from this post on page one of this thread?:

 

 

p.s. Schooner Bar Girl, well said!

 

THANK YOU! Yes! I knew I saw the words "She was 15!" ;):D I read that, then the article. It just didn't pertain to the girl in question...lol.

 

Thanks! I haven't totally lost my marbles. Not totally.

[Cruising89143]

Oh geesh sorry everyone!!! I don't know where I saw 15 this morning. :eek:

 

Yes, you are all right, "high school graduation" -- so that makes her anywhere from 17 - 19. I apologize for that! :o

 

According to this article, she is 17.

 

http://www.cruise-community.com/News/News-Headlines/Teen-sues-line-alleging-rape-by-shipboard-musician.html