Required vs Recommended

[richsea]

When I started this thread it was not my intent to have it turn into the typical dress code debate. It was to show the wording that another cruise line uses, and I think that if Celebrity used similar wording there would be less confusion.

 

Really?????!!!!!! How long have you been on these boards???!!!:eek:

Surely you jest!

[Lois R]

Really?????!!!!!! How long have you been on these boards???!!!:eek:

Surely you jest!

 

Hi Rich......I agree...anything close to "that topic" will veer right into

it like a person trying to steer a ship away from the rocks even after

being told they cut it too close.......:eek:

[richsea]

I would suggest you go back and read this thread. As usual, you will find that most people on this thread are just answering a question posed by the OP. Has nothing to do with be comfortable, be happy and enjoy or life is too short crap. It has everything to do with being courteous and helpful to the OP.

 

Sorry Don, but I have to disagree. The OP did not ask a question, but posted a blurb alluding to how another line addresses formal nights, & naturally, it has morphed into what it is; yet another dress code thread, which is what I suspect, the OP had in mind all along, denials notwithstanding.

It is truly tiring, yet I am drawn to it like a moth to a flame:o.

[dkjretired]

Sorry Don, but I have to disagree. The OP did not ask a question, but posted a blurb alluding to how another line addresses formal nights, & naturally, it has morphed into what it is; yet another dress code thread, which is what I suspect, the OP had in mind all along, denials notwithstanding.

It is truly tiring, yet I am drawn to it like a moth to a flame:o.

 

True but my point still stands in responding to the post I did. As in all dress code threads, people answer the question of what the dress code is and then get criticized or told to enjoy yourself and not worry about the dress code. Doesn't matter if it is the first, second or whatever post, it always works out that way.

[Lois R]

True but my point still stands in responding to the post I did. As in all dress code threads, people answer the question of what the dress code is and then get criticized or told to enjoy yourself and not worry about the dress code. Doesn't matter if it is the first, second or whatever post, it always works out that way.

 

Hi Don,:) yes....every time......

 

Oh btw, you have mail;)

[ORV]

When I started this thread it was not my intent to have it turn into the typical dress code debate. It was to show the wording that another cruise line uses, and I think that if Celebrity used similar wording there would be less confusion.

 

Back to the original intent here.

 

"As a courtesy to our guests, we respectfully require and enforce compliance with dress code at the entrance of your restaurant of choice."

 

What part of the word "require" would anyone find ambiguous or cause confusion? Seems like a problem trying to be created where none exists.

 

If Celebrity changed their wording similar to what you originally posted what it would do is allow everyone to dress however they wanted. That would create confusion. That should not be the goal.

[tserface]

I'm curious why that would be confusing?

 

I think the goal ought to be for *everyone* to have an enjoyable vacation of a lifetime. If some people want to get dressed up and others don't what's the difference?

 

I know... beating a dead horse, but I kind of still don't get why it's such a big deal. No one is talking about wearing swim clothes for dinner, but if some guy has on a pair of slacks and a nice shirt who cares if they are wearing a coat or tie or whatever. If someone else wants to dress up in a tux, then that's great too. Both can still enjoy the excellent food. One guys pictures will look like what they wanted and the other's what they wanted. So long as everyone is dressed nicely, why are we stuck on the archaic tie and jacket stigma?

 

I find that confusing.

 

Tom

 

Back to the original intent here.

 

"As a courtesy to our guests, we respectfully require and enforce compliance with dress code at the entrance of your restaurant of choice."

 

What part of the word "require" would anyone find ambiguous or cause confusion? Seems like a problem trying to be created where none exists.

 

If Celebrity changed their wording similar to what you originally posted what it would do is allow everyone to dress however they wanted. That would create confusion. That should not be the goal.

[Ma Bell]

I guess if the concept of a formal evening is confusing, no one would ever be able to explain it. It's kind of like saying "why not wear a suit and tie to a barbecue in the park if you like to dress up". An event that is designated "formal" requires dress that is appropriate to the evening. There are so many other choices now available on Celebrity to people who don't care to dress for dinner it should be a no brainier.

 

If the thought of having any kind of formal evenings on board is so disturbing and one can't possibly choose to go to a specialty restaurant, book aqua class, dine in the buffet or have the MDR menu served in the stateroom, maybe choosing a completely casual cruise line is the solution.

[tserface]

I understand the concept of formal, I just don't know why a "tie" and "jacket" constitutes formal these days. There are all sorts of really fancy clothes available to wear. Women get all kinds of options (including dress flip flops).

 

Why are guys restricted to wearing super uncomfortable, and some think unfashionable, ties and jackets? I even heard some here say the cruise line gave them a jacket that didn't fit and that was acceptable. But, someone else dressed like a GQ model would be inappropriate because they didn't have a tie on?

 

What I don't understand is why the dichotomy in rules. Women can get away with wearing just about anything, including what they would normally wear on a non-formal night, but guys are somehow penned into this antique tie and jacket ritual.

 

I like getting dressed up as much as the next person and enjoy the opportunity to do it, I just don't know why we're stuck in this rut.

 

Tom

 

 

I guess if the concept of a formal evening is confusing, no one would ever be able to explain it. It's kind of like saying "why not wear a suit and tie to a barbecue in the park if you like to dress up". An event that is designated "formal" requires dress that is appropriate to the evening. There are so many other choices now available on Celebrity to people who don't care to dress for dinner it should be a no brainier.

 

If the thought of having any kind of formal evenings on board is so disturbing and one can't possibly choose to go to a specialty restaurant, book aqua class, dine in the buffet or have the MDR menu served in the stateroom, maybe choosing a completely casual cruise line is the solution.

[Karynanne]

I understand the concept of formal, I just don't know why a "tie" and "jacket" constitutes formal these days. There are all sorts of really fancy clothes available to wear. Women get all kinds of options (including dress flip flops).

 

Why are guys restricted to wearing super uncomfortable, and some think unfashionable, ties and jackets? I even heard some here say the cruise line gave them a jacket that didn't fit and that was acceptable. But, someone else dressed like a GQ model would be inappropriate because they didn't have a tie on?

 

What I don't understand is why the dichotomy in rules. Women can get away with wearing just about anything, including what they would normally wear on a non-formal night, but guys are somehow penned into this antique tie and jacket ritual.

 

I like getting dressed up as much as the next person and enjoy the opportunity to do it, I just don't know why we're stuck in this rut.

 

I'm somewhat confused here...you really don't why a "tie and jacket" constitutes formal? I wonder what your definition of casual must be? A Speedo?

 

If there were a poll that gave options for formalwear for women, I highly doubt that many women would choose capris and a blouse.

 

Celebrity has positioned itself as a more refined cruiseline. That is precisely why we chose it many years ago. If we wanted a laid-back...wear what you wish atmosphere, we'd take our business elsewhere.

 

But as others have posted on this thread, there are many other dining options available, where you can dress as you wish, and still enjoy delicious meals.

[Orator]

The Code is what it is because Celebrity says it is. The passenger signs a document agreeing to the terms and conditions established by Celebrity. Celebrity writes the rules, interprets the rules and enforces the rules (sometimes). End of story!

[tserface]

And yet women often wear slacks or capri pants on formal night and no one questions it. And, if someone is wearing a ratty old tux that doesn't fit that's OK too.

 

Yeah, I don't get it.

 

And suggesting that someone just choose another line is not answering the question, and it's a little condescending actually. I like Celebrity as well for many of the same reasons and I'm not opposed to dressing nicely for dinner. I just think the standard is a little old fashioned. I don't think I suggested anyone wear a Speedo to dinner. OK, I mentioned a GQ model, but I was thinking of the one who is dressed up really nicely, not the one in the swimsuit ad. I just don't understand why were stuck on the "tie" thing.

 

But, maybe we are beating the dead horse again.

 

I don't think the code is that Draconian. I just went and looked it up again:

 

"Formal

Ladies: Cocktail dress, gown or dressy pantsuit

Gentlemen: Tuxedo, suit or dinner jacket with slacks."

 

Doesn't mention a "tie" at all. It does say women have to wear a pantsuit at least and that is often not the case on many cruises we've been on.

 

I'm just curious why people focus on the guys so much and the "tie" issue.

 

In another part of the website it mentions the code as:

 

"Examples of "Formal" attire include:

Ladies: Cocktail dress, gown, or dressy pantsuit.

Gentlemen: Tuxedo, suit, or dinner jacket with slacks."

 

Saying these are "examples". Which I think is what the OP was suggesting.

 

Seems like it's kind of nebulous in definition. I guess I don't have to care.

 

:rolleyes:

 

Never mind.

 

Tom

 

I'm somewhat confused here...you really don't why a "tie and jacket" constitutes formal? I wonder what your definition of casual must be? A Speedo?

 

If there were a poll that gave options for formalwear for women, I highly doubt that many women would choose capris and a blouse.

 

Celebrity has positioned itself as a more refined cruiseline. That is precisely why we chose it many years ago. If we wanted a laid-back...wear what you wish atmosphere, we'd take our business elsewhere.

 

But as others have posted on this thread, there are many other dining options available, where you can dress as you wish, and still enjoy delicious meals.

[C 2 C]

The Code is what it is because Celebrity says it is. End of story!

 

"It depends on what the wording of 'is', is." ;)

[Ma Bell]

"It depends on what the wording of 'is', is." ;)

 

It's funny but that saying often enters my mind when reading some of the dress code posts. :D

[C 2 C]

"It depends on what the wording of 'is', is." ;)

 

Oh the pain of copying and pasting...

Before I get pilloried for misquoting..

 

"It depends on what the meaning of 'is', is."

 

But you know what I meant to say...

[ORV]

I don't think the code is that Draconian. I just went and looked it up again:

 

"Formal

Ladies: Cocktail dress, gown or dressy pantsuit

Gentlemen: Tuxedo, suit or dinner jacket with slacks."

 

Doesn't mention a "tie" at all. It does say women have to wear a pantsuit at least and that is often not the case on many cruises we've been on.

 

I'm just curious why people focus on the guys so much and the "tie" issue.

 

In another part of the website it mentions the code as:

 

"Examples of "Formal" attire include:

Ladies: Cocktail dress, gown, or dressy pantsuit.

Gentlemen: Tuxedo, suit, or dinner jacket with slacks."

 

Saying these are "examples". Which I think is what the OP was suggesting.

 

Seems like it's kind of nebulous in definition. I guess I don't have to care.

 

:rolleyes:

 

Never mind.

 

Tom

 

Tom, as you see below from the first post(the original one) and the other one below is that BM's premise is that Celebrity is ambiguous in whether it's a suggestion or mandate, required or recommended, not the type of clothing worn. Everything else said here is just muddying the waters. My point is that from Celebrity's website, this statement;

 

"As a courtesy to our guests, we respectfully require and enforce compliance with dress code at the entrance of your restaurant of choice."

 

makes it very clear that it's a requirement. How anyone can even begin to think it's only a suggestion or recommendation is beyond me.

 

In the other post when I used the word confusion I was referring to BM's use of the word. The Celebrity website on the matter is clear, the only place the confusion comes in is when people start interpreting it to their own biases.

 

Personally I prefer the country club casual ambiance on Oceania, I think they have it right. But, when I cruise on Celebrity I respect their dress code. It doesn't really matter what I prefer, it matters what they ask of us. I don't find anything hard about understanding this.

 

With all the debates about whether the dress code for formal nights are required or recommended, I found this wording from another cruise line to be interesting:

 

"These requirements are not mandatory; however, in order to re-create a classic and memorable dining experience for you and all our Guests, we recommend the attire schedule that is planned for your cruise."

 

I've missed all these debates about it being required or recommended. I have seen plenty of people that just don't want to follow the code as it's set out, or want to see what they can get away with.

 

What I like about the wording from this cruise line is that they clearly communicate the intent of their dress code. If Celebrity's dress code wording was like this, it would take the guess work out of people trying to decide whether it is a suggestion or a mandate.

 

Once again how can anyone think the word require is a suggestion?

[tserface]

Well the code isn't all that strict in the first place. I should have looked up before arguing about it.

 

Tom

 

Tom, as you see below from the first post(the original one) and the other one below is that BM's premise is that Celebrity is ambiguous in whether it's a suggestion or mandate, required or recommended, not the type of clothing worn. Everything else said here is just muddying the waters. My point is that from Celebrity's website, this statement;

 

"As a courtesy to our guests, we respectfully require and enforce compliance with dress code at the entrance of your restaurant of choice."

 

makes it very clear that it's a requirement. How anyone can even begin to think it's only a suggestion or recommendation is beyond me.

 

In the other post when I used the word confusion I was referring to BM's use of the word. The Celebrity website on the matter is clear, the only place the confusion comes in is when people start interpreting it to their own biases.

 

Personally I prefer the country club casual ambiance on Oceania, I think they have it right. But, when I cruise on Celebrity I respect their dress code. It doesn't really matter what I prefer, it matters what they ask of us. I don't find anything hard about understanding this.

 

 

 

I've missed all these debates about it being required or recommended. I have seen plenty of people that just don't want to follow the code as it's set out, or want to see what they can get away with.

 

 

 

Once again how can anyone think the word require is a suggestion?

[Petoonya]

My knickers fit just fine, sorry they aren't formal though, I prefer comfortable and well fitted.

 

 

Since this seems to have degenerated into silly comments with no added value...

 

I rest my case.

 

Enjoy your cruises everyone, whether you decide to go formal in the MDR, or smart casual elsewhere.

 

 

:D;)

 

Just had to say how very much I enjoy your posts.

Will be visiting your beautiful country next spring on Solstice and hope to catch you in your knickers :)

Happy cruising to you!

[3littlepigs]

Ahh! Petoonya! Lovely to have entertained you!

 

You will love your Solstice trip!

 

Flick me an email with any port queries you might have, we have traveled far and wide in Australia/NZ and the Pacific Islands and may be able to help you out with some suggestions...you will find my irreverent email address in my previous posts!

 

Love your Piggie Pic and your name...I had to think it in my best American accent impersonation before I "got" it!!!

 

If you are likely to catch me I will be sure to wear my well fitting, comfortable FORMAL knickers!

[Ma Bell]

Ahh! Petoonya! Lovely to have entertained you!

 

You will love your Solstice trip!

 

Flick me an email with any port queries you might have, we have traveled far and wide in Australia/NZ and the Pacific Islands and may be able to help you out with some suggestions...you will find my irreverent email address in my previous posts!

 

Love your Piggie Pic and your name...I had to think it in my best American accent impersonation before I "got" it!!!

 

If you are likely to catch me I will be sure to wear my well fitting, comfortable FORMAL knickers!

 

Now you will know that my comment is about your post because I quoted you.;)

 

My friend Terry is the one who thought what I said referred to your post, but it truly had nothing to do with what you said. I am sorry that it was misunderstood. There are so many discussions about not being able to fit a jacket and tie in the suitcase and always finding room to smuggle booze or travel irons that it was just a very lighthearted comment for the usual suspects. I suppose I should have used a smilie to make it completely obvious, but since no one had even mentioned booze or travel irons I thought it was obvious.

 

I didn't think bringing wine home could be interpreted as smuggling and in fact it is also allowed when boarding the ship. I still don't think I'd want to chance it since we have so many great Australian and New Zealand wines available at home.

 

We thoroughly enjoyed our time in Oz and New Zealand and particularly enjoyed all the lovely people we met.

[Bridge Maven]

Petoonya - the answer to your question is no.

[rebeccalouiseagain]

Don't judge a book by its cover.

 

In 2005 I met an adorable couple with their equally adorable three year old son on Celebrity Millenium. The couple was from the Czech Republic that had emigrated to the US trying to live the American dream. They had no idea how expensive life would be in the US (NYC) and with school looming for their son and no health insurance in the US- they were forced to return to the Czech Republic. This transatlantic cruise was cheaper for them than three plane tickets and paying to fly home what belongings they had. So the cruise was a good option for them. I learned this on day one.

 

Well you should have seen the looks on peoples faces when the Dad turned up in cargo pants to dinner.

But as people got to know this lovely family over the course of our 14 night voyage- their respect and admiration for this family grew. They were just lovely.

 

I understand that everyone can not afford a cruise wardrobe when they are just trying to get back to their home country and start all over.

 

They may be the exception to the rule- but unless someone is being rude- talking loudly, being disrespectful to the waiter.. who cares?

[swedish weave]

The method some of you use to justify accusing someone of either being prejudiced or prevaricating is not very scientific. Because they don't post, they don't cruise ??? What a bunch of nonsense that is.

 

If Celebrity is as diligent as some of you say, why do I see posts stating that underdressed people are dining in the MDR on formal nights. Bear in mind that the representative of the cruise line who is posted at the entrance determines who is allowed to dine. That means there are NO underdressed people in the MDR because they were all approved by the cruise line representative.

[Ma Bell]

Petoonya - the answer to your question is no.

 

The answer is one.

[excitedofharpenden]

 

Disclosure: Been five years since I've stepped aboard a Celebrity ship. Like ORV, Oceania has it right with country club casual, but dress-up on X is fun. I don't give a --- --- what someone else wears.

I've discovered Azamara and like the country club casual on that line also together with the wonderful service from a friendly crew. Not taking a tux and a no jeans policy at dinner works for me, but I too like to dress up occasionally and Celebrity fits here. It's great to have a choice!

 

Phil