Carnivalization of Celebrity??

[TravelerThom]

.. thrill seekers (hence, expensive excursions)...

I was in agreement with you up until this point.

I don't consider that "thrill seeker":) and "ship excursion":mad: are likely to go together.

In general I am willing to pay significantly more money to NOT take a ship tour.

 

Thom

[cle-guy]

Actually mine was. I got a quote on 4 balcony cabins without the beverage package. I came back 2 weeks later after the package was re-implemented and the price was almost identical. Plus a $150 OBC on top.

 

There are surely anomalies where this is true especially on slower selling cruises, as one gets closer to sailing, or when certain cabin types are sold out but others are still open or if it's an itinerary that ma have a competitive line serving it as well.

 

But if you go check past fares on that fishing cruise sight, you can see clearly graphically, fleet wide as a whole, how fares react to the dates the drink packages come and go. It's obvious when you see the trend line where the packages came and left. You see a spike and drop in the cabin fares on those days.

[grandgeezer]

I think Celebrity should tread lightly with this approach. Look at the demographics of their customers. Most of their customers, as well as most of the other lines, are older. Why? Because usually they have the money and the time to take more and longer cruises. Chase them away and you have to sell a helluva lot more drinks, etc to make up for it.We do about 2-3 cruises a year and none under 14 days. We do not use Carnival, and RCL's larger ships, because of the atmosphere. We have done 15 cruises with Celebrity spanning 194 days but would change if it gets too out of hand. I am loyal, but would find it hard to come back if things went back to the way they were. I worked for a very successfull company and their feeling was "it cost 10 times more to get a customer back, than to keep him (not necessarily financially)".

[cibumcupio]

I'm in my 20's and I've been to my fair share of loud restaurants, loud bars, loud weddings, and I'm usually the one complaining to my friends that the music is too loud. I sailed the Reflection in January (which was fantastic by the way) and the music was not loud. I mean, it was more thumping at the pool at certain times, and at the Martini bar and in the atrium during dinner hours. But much quieter than any wedding I've been to in the past year. If you didn't like it, there were PLENTY of places to go that were quiet. Sunset bar, the lounges by the specialty restaurants, the solarium, the grassy area, and lots more.

 

I remember there were earlier posts about how Celebrity was now playing rap music all over the place. I'm sorry, but if you think Katy Perry and Lady Gaga is rap, you're really showing your ignorance. We all know that music tastes are very personal and generational and everyone will dislike some of the music on the ship. But that is why they have such a large variety, so that there will be at least something for everyone.

 

I know that Celebrity is trying to attract young urban professionals in their 20's to 40's, and I think they're doing the right things. Focus on cuisine and food demos for the foodie movement that is popular, great bars, a wide variety in entertainment (I loved the a cappella group and the all the broadway numbers in the theatre), clean and modern looking spaces. Unless you want cruising to disappear completely like the way of Blockbuster and CompUsa, you will need to accept that they will have to change with the times.

[cruisetrail]

Just off the Celebrity Reflection. So much about the cruise was excellent: the stunning ship, consistently superior food, spotless cleanliness, friendly service, officers, crew. So many people working so diligently to provide a first class "modern luxury" experience.

 

Unfortunately, there was also a big and easily resolved concern.

 

Around the main pool, the "music" of the Miami DJs was unacceptably LOUD! So loud at sail-away that one could not even hear a person standing right next to one.So loud that one's whole body vibrated. So loud that the speakers distorted the sound. The issue is not so much the kind of music, as its volume. It rendered the main pool area unusable.

 

Likewise, the party band Vibe was so loud in the foyer as to render the core of the ship unusable. They disturbed people in the Library, Hideaway, Game Room, Martini Bar, Cellar Masters, Bistro, Cafe Bacio, Passport Bar, Guest Relations, Elevator lobbies etc.

 

Miami DJs and Vibe would be great in a separate venue, such as Sky lounge or Qasar. Let those who like it come to those venues. The issue was that this was inflicted on a majority of the passengers who did not pay their hard earned money to be subjected to this new un-Celebrity-like experience.

 

Now here is the really scary part.:eek:

 

I attended the Cruise Critic gathering, along with 60 or 70 others, and several ships officers. When the issue of the loud music was raised by several guests, the Cruise Director explained that the Reflection, as the flagship, was leading the way introducing a new entertainment concept, which would be taken fleet wide! The key was a shift in the demographic profile of their target guests, from 50s to 30-something. The loud music reflected this new direction. Apparently someone in Miami thinks that ultra-loud music = 30 something demographic!

 

There was a lot of dissenting discussion. During the course of this the Cruise Director made it very clear that if the loyal, traditional Celebrity customer did not like this direction, they should find another line to cruise :eek:

 

I love the Celebrity experience, and have done some 20 cruises with them. I see this as the Carnivalization of the brand! Given that they already own Royal Caribbean, which appeals to a younger demographic, I do not see the business sense in taking Celebrity in this direction, and upsetting their large established loyal base of customers.

 

I would be interesting in hearing from other Cruise Critic members who were at that infamous CC gathering.

 

The Reflection to turn to younger clientele???:eek:

 

The Reflection is the final step in Commercialization of the Solstice class.

Having started with some interesting novelties (Grass lawn and Hot Glass show), Celebrity ended up with these free entertaining/educating features replaced with $$ cabanas and banality of another $$ eatery.

Disco dance club removed.

Principal entertainment lounge reduced almost to half size to give way for more $$$$ suites.

Front observation deck ruined by full height fence.

Semi deck of cabins added while public space reduced.

This is what has been lost/ruined in comparison with the original design.

Needless to add that the Reflection inherited design flaws of the original design: lack of promenade deck, minimal sports facilities, insufficient sun/pool deck space. The Reflection by design is closer to a boring floating upscale nursing home than other S-class ships.

 

It's unbelievable that these changes are geared to younger clientele.

 

I don't think that loud music is enough to attract younger, more energetic clientele.

Will it upset Celebrity "traditional" clients - for sure.

[Beachdude]

Celebrity is not trying to run off Elites. I'm sure they like the loyalty. What they're trying to run off is Elites who don't like so-called loud and modern music.

 

I'm sure Celebrity has figured out that those that do like louder, modern music also don't spend much on booze (as on others have posted) or specialty restaurants. They probably spend little in the casino, stores, or the photo studio. They probably don't need internet (other than the freebies) unlike those of us who are still in our working years. They probably spent little to nothing on excursions.

 

This has less to do with age and Captain's Club levels and everything to do with spending patterns.

 

From our cruise experience the last few years on several lines, I agree with this post. I also agree these kind of changes is equalizing with the Carnival experience. Might as well pay a 3rd the price for basically the same experience.

 

As for Sally and I, we cruised to have an experience that couldn't be matched by other means of travel. I think that kind of experience is coming to and end. Picking a week on the beaches of Hawaii is becoming easier.

 

Burt

[cherylroslyn]

I'm in my 20's and I've been to my fair share of loud restaurants, loud bars, loud weddings, and I'm usually the one complaining to my friends that the music is too loud. I sailed the Reflection in January (which was fantastic by the way) and the music was not loud. I mean, it was more thumping at the pool at certain times, and at the Martini bar and in the atrium during dinner hours. But much quieter than any wedding I've been to in the past year. If you didn't like it, there were PLENTY of places to go that were quiet. Sunset bar, the lounges by the specialty restaurants, the solarium, the grassy area, and lots more.

 

I remember there were earlier posts about how Celebrity was now playing rap music all over the place. I'm sorry, but if you think Katy Perry and Lady Gaga is rap, you're really showing your ignorance. We all know that music tastes are very personal and generational and everyone will dislike some of the music on the ship. But that is why they have such a large variety, so that there will be at least something for everyone.

 

I know that Celebrity is trying to attract young urban professionals in their 20's to 40's, and I think they're doing the right things. Focus on cuisine and food demos for the foodie movement that is popular, great bars, a wide variety in entertainment (I loved the a cappella group and the all the broadway numbers in the theatre), clean and modern looking spaces. Unless you want cruising to disappear completely like the way of Blockbuster and CompUsa, you will need to accept that they will have to change with the times.

Well stated.....and I agree 100%.

 

I also agree about the music, I spent a lot of time last year responding to posts that claimed Rap was being played in the Martini Bar....

 

Some of these people think Will Smith is gangsta rap. If you don't now the difference between Rap, Hip Hop, house, urban, industrial, techno, trance and euro dance, to name a few, then you probably shouldn't be making broad sweeping statements about musical genres.

[TravelerThom]

...I loved the a cappella group...

I'm glad you enjoyed them and caught them while they were still around. Everything I read says that Celebrity has eliminated them fleet wide.

[Celebrity Cruises]

Hi all,

 

We have been reading the comments on this thread, as well as the other thread. While we don't want to comment on the demographics discussion, as well as who we are attracting, we can say that we are looking into the music issue to determine if and why it is too loud. Apologies that we can't comment any further (at least for now), but wanted to at least let everyone know that we aren't ignoring these discussions, and are in fact looking into this.

[C-Dragons]

Hi all,

 

We have been reading the comments on this thread, as well as the other thread. While we don't want to comment on the demographics discussion, as well as who we are attracting, we can say that we are looking into the music issue to determine if and why it is too loud. Apologies that we can't comment any further (at least for now), but wanted to at least let everyone know that we aren't ignoring these discussions, and are in fact looking into this.

Well that's encouraging.

We have several cruises coming up, and sadly, I was beginning to think we'd have to cancel. Music should enhance an experience, not ruin it.

[patty1955]

Hi all,

 

We have been reading the comments on this thread, as well as the other thread. While we don't want to comment on the demographics discussion, as well as who we are attracting, we can say that we are looking into the music issue to determine if and why it is too loud. Apologies that we can't comment any further (at least for now), but wanted to at least let everyone know that we aren't ignoring these discussions, and are in fact looking into this.

I understand that you don't want to comment on the demographics issue, but I wish you would. If Celebrity prefers the 30 or 40 aged groups, I'd like to know. We have given our loyalty (and money) to Celebrity for several years. We had planned to continue sailing with them for years to come, but if you'd like us to move on, please let us know.

Alexander made it very clear that we are not the target demographic and he IS Celebrity's representative. My husband suggests that Alexander felt attached by people saying they would stop sailing Celebrity and he may have overreacted, but nobody "took back" what he said. And his initial comment that this is how it's going to be (in response to complaints to the volume) is what triggered the threats to go elsewhere.

[Celebrity Cruises]

Alexander made it very clear that we are not the target demographic and he IS Celebrity's representative.

 

Hi Patty,

 

Please consider us to be Celebrity's representative. We work in Miami, and this was only brought to our attention yesterday when we first saw the post. This issue actually has nothing to do with demographics or our audience. We want everyone on our ship to be happy, and to have an enjoyable cruise.

 

We are looking into this issue, and will make any changes if necessary.

[cherylroslyn]

I understand that you don't want to comment on the demographics issue, but I wish you would. If Celebrity prefers the 30 or 40 aged groups, I'd like to know. We have given our loyalty (and money) to Celebrity for several years. We had planned to continue sailing with them for years to come, but if you'd like us to move on, please let us know.

Alexander made it very clear that we are not the target demographic and he IS Celebrity's representative. My husband suggests that Alexander felt attached by people saying they would stop sailing Celebrity and he may have overreacted, but nobody "took back" what he said. And his initial comment that this is how it's going to be (in response to complaints to the volume) is what triggered the threats to go elsewhere.

I found Alexander to be very rude and dismissive to the entire cruise critic community last year on the April Summit Repo. We had nearly 150 people at our Connections party and he very rudely told us to move to the back of Revelations as a dance class was starting (a dance class with three people participating)......

 

 

We had been socializing on one of the most active threads (100s of pages long) for well over a year. We wanted to stay and chat for a little while, we were buying our own drinks, so it was not as if we were trying to extend the meeting to get free drinks.......

 

 

It was totally perplexing why he would chase us like stray cats, and be so rude. I found him to be very off putting and although he seemed very impressed with himself....something was socially awkward about him and some of his jokes or quick comments seemed ill conceived.

[patty1955]

Hi Patty,

 

Please consider us to be Celebrity's representative. We work in Miami, and this was only brought to our attention yesterday when we first saw the post. This issue actually has nothing to do with demographics or our audience. We want everyone on our ship to be happy, and to have an enjoyable cruise.

 

We are looking into this issue, and will make any changes if necessary.

Thank you

[Lois R]

Hi all,

 

We have been reading the comments on this thread, as well as the other thread. While we don't want to comment on the demographics discussion, as well as who we are attracting, we can say that we are looking into the music issue to determine if and why it is too loud. Apologies that we can't comment any further (at least for now), but wanted to at least let everyone know that we aren't ignoring these discussions, and are in fact looking into this.

 

I will tell you what I was told, first hand in a conversation with

the CD on Century....actually the Guest Relations Manager heard

the entire thing too.

He told me he was told by HQ/MIAMI that after 8pm all volume

of the music is to be MADE LOUDER:rolleyes:....we had a fairly long chat

about it. I didn't like his response or his attitude about it.

 

I decided to write a note to the Hotel Director about it. At least

the Guest Relations Manager listened without making me feel like

I was in the wrong for asking about it.

[floridatravelersforlife]

You are 100% right and I could not agree more!:) I will glad to see all of them go to Holland American and cruise. With the number of new ships out there the cruise line needs to appeal to the largest market of people possible or go out of business.

 

Be careful what you wish for. As an analogy, JC Penny abandoned its traditional customer base and is now near death because their new customers did not pan out.. And Penny's current customer base is worse off now.

 

And yes us Boomers will change if WE desire and spend our money elsewhere

[wallie5446]

Hi all,

 

We have been reading the comments on this thread, as well as the other thread. While we don't want to comment on the demographics discussion, as well as who we are attracting, we can say that we are looking into the music issue to determine if and why it is too loud. Apologies that we can't comment any further (at least for now), but wanted to at least let everyone know that we aren't ignoring these discussions, and are in fact looking into this.

 

Do you think there will be any chance we could get some answers from:

 

Marsha Ebanks

Regional Marketing Manager

Celebrity Cruises

 

When she is our Hostess next week at the Dallas Captains Club event?

Please give her a heads up that the questions will be asked.

Edited March 4, 2014 by wallie5446

[Cruising89143]

You are very, very wrong. My 20-30-40 something friends and I are all loving cruising on Celebrity. Not all of us want a playground, slides, ropes, most of us find VIP Bottle service a bit tacky and cheesy, many of us AVOID CARNIVAL AT ALL COST! We want cool DJ music, fun modern music at the pool, decent drinks, reasonable entertainment, comfortable cabin, a busy bustling martini bar, and just good service and value for money. We enjoy a formal night or 2 to get out our best 'duds' and have a nice evening. Celebrity has been providing that in spades, and each time I board another cruise, they are getting things even closer to what we love about vacationing.

 

We've cruised Transatlantics and in the caribbean, met many others like us on these trips, and now plan our vacations around cruising rather than land trips. Somehow Celebrity has been calling, and we have come running!

 

I'm also very happy to see them finally enhancing the Suite experience. I was about to think of trying Norwegian, but now don't have to.

 

All in all, I think its a great business decision by X to keep current with current trends. I suppose if they are wrong with this decisions, we'll see them bankrupt in a couple years. Only time will tell. I do think also, they are pushing some of their older crowd out of the boat so to speak, but also think there is still plenty to do on the ship no matter what age one may be.

 

To make a REAL decision on the policy, it's best to understand the onboard spending of the new incoming generation versus the long time cruisers. I suspect the incoming generation has a higher spend, thus delivers higher profit margins, thus increased shareholder value - the bottom line is all that matters since they are a publicly traded company.

 

We are early fifties and I agree with you. Also Celebrity is not being Carnivalized in the least. Actually laughed when I read the title of this thread as I knew exactly what the issue was going to be.

 

We loved the vibe onboard the Reflection last year and I applaud Celebrity's move in this direction. If I want a HAL or Cunard experience I would book those lines. I guess some may have to make a choice.

Edited March 4, 2014 by cruisingator2

[takemewithyou]

Dear Celebrity,

I have been lurking here reading....Just want to say that for all the people who are posting here, there are many others, like me, who are lurking.....We have experienced the loud music in the atrium and have been driven out of some of our favorite areas of the ship, the last time being on a TA on Silhouette, 2012. We were so turned off with music volume in the atrium that we made our opinions known with Mr Bayley's office upon our return. We had one conversation with a representative from Mr Bayley's office who suggested we try other cruiselines.....very similar to what people are reporting that the CD of Reflection said recently.

 

We have cruised many times with Celebrity, usually 2-3 cruises a year. In 2013, we decided to take land vacations instead. Fast forward to now....we are trying two other cruise lines, one being Oceania looking for an experience like we used to have on Celebrity!! It is really sad that we have to look elsewhere because we were happy with X in practically every other way.

 

We do have one more cruise booked on Century and I hope that we will not experience the loud music, although Host Andy and others mentioned that they did on a recent cruise after dry dock. It really must be scary to new X cruisers to see all these complaints on CC about the music. As a shareholder and a customer, I hope you have some definitive statements on future changes as to the volume of music soon! This must be bad for the X brand !!

[ORV]

Hi Patty,

 

Please consider us to be Celebrity's representative. We work in Miami, and this was only brought to our attention yesterday when we first saw the post. This issue actually has nothing to do with demographics or our audience. We want everyone on our ship to be happy, and to have an enjoyable cruise.

 

We are looking into this issue, and will make any changes if necessary.

 

Perhaps a little retraining of your MOST VISIBLE representative on board might be in order here. I can't imagine how it would ever be in good form or good business sense to tell long time customers if they don't like it to go elsewhere.

[warmwinds]

Are all your ships going out empty? Or at bargain basement rates?

 

When we oldies die off you'll have plenty of time to change the direction you've spent years to perfect.

 

Most of us complaining (I think) are in the 50-60's range, and we've still got 20-30 good years of cruising left in us. Don't ruin it for us now.

 

I think the JC Penney analogy, the quantitative decibel level measurements and the survey are all great ideas. Take heed, please.

[harz99]

We are early fifties and I agree with you. Also Celebrity is not being Carnivalized in the least. Actually laughed when I read the title of this thread as I knew exactly what the issue was going to be.

 

We loved the vibe onboard the Reflection last year and I applaud Celebrity's move in this direction. If I want a HAL or Cunard experience I would book those lines. I guess some may have to make a choice.

 

That is precisely the point being made on this thread. People have booked Celebrity in the expectation that the product or "experience" will be delivered in the same way as they have previously experienced - that is not the case with regard to both types of music and volume, hence the comments.

 

The "vibe" as you put it, does not equate to deafeningly loud and inescapable music, be it poolside, in a bar, the Atrium or the MDR. That is certainly not luxury, modern or otherwise.

[sabookkeeper]

Wow, this is terrible to hear. I hope this is NOT the direction Celebrity is heading for. I have read on this board many mixed reviews of the Reflection ship. Even after reading some "iffy" reviews about the Reflection, I was still seriously considering an upcoming sailing on the ship. But from what the OP stated - it does not sound like a cruise my DH and I would be looking for. Not at all.....

 

What attracted us personally to Celebrity as our preferred line is the relaxed atmosphere and LACK of commotion. When we cruise we are looking for R&R. And the last 3 cruises on Celebrity did provide that. We are not looking for loud music that interfere with relaxing and having conversations. This is terribly disappointing to hear.

We were on the Reflection in February. We spent a lot of time in the pool area and did not find the music loud. We even commented about the music since we had read reviews complaining about the music.

 

We also spent time before dinner on deck 3 of 4 during times when the DJ was playing and Vibe was performing. Again, we did not find the music too loud. We were able to carry on a conversation with no problem.

 

We are not in the under 30 group - we are 56 and 58 years old.

[blueboro]

I'm glad you enjoyed them and caught them while they were still around. Everything I read says that Celebrity has eliminated them fleet wide.

 

You are right. THere was no a cappella group last week on Reflection.

[Cruising89143]

That is precisely the point being made on this thread. People have booked Celebrity in the expectation that the product or "experience" will be delivered in the same way as they have previously experienced - that is not the case with regard to both types of music and volume, hence the comments.

 

The "vibe" as you put it, does not equate to deafeningly loud and inescapable music, be it poolside, in a bar, the Atrium or the MDR. That is certainly not luxury, modern or otherwise.

 

I have no issue with the music or volume. Again if I want the Glenn Miller tribute band I will book HAL. Maybe X has realized they were headed in that direction.;)