This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

[RDC1]

That's not the UK policy. Interesting question.

 

In the UK it would probably depend if it would be considered to be a major change under the Package Travel Regulations. If such a change in policy would be considered to be a major change then passengers should be notified and allowed to cancel.

[SeaBands]

we have never sailed on a HAL cruise that wasn't fully booked incl. balcony cabins. Some people just want to control others lives. I can't even smell smoke across our balcony when my partner smokes. I wonder if HAL will stop selling cigarettes on board. I have noticed that many of the front office staff regularly are in the smoking area of the Lido bar.

Edited October 5, 2016 by SeaBands

[kennicott]

I think market research probably showed there were many people doing as you and not booking balconies, or foregoing HAL altogether in favor of a line where they could have a smoke-free balcony. With the rapidly declining smoking population, I don't think the number of cruisers HAL will lose with this switch is anywhere near as large as the revenue they were losing by allowing balcony smoking.Cindy

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From an investor learning standpoint it would be interesting to know exactly how this decision played out in the upper echelon sanctums of the Holland America Group headquarters. As I’ve mentioned, I would like to have been a “bug on the wall” there to learn what influenced Stein Kruse’s rationale.

 

A few years ago, after HAL ended up being about the “only game in town” for balcony smoking (except Costa), there was a lot of speculation that smokers loyal to other lines, lines which had now prohibited balcony smoking, would flock to HAL. One reason I kept an eye on this thread was to try and determine what the magnitude of that migration might amount to.

 

It appeared to me that it was quite significant, therefore I guessed that Kruse would not discontinue balcony smoking due to the volume of his new found customer base. And, if he did so I reasoned that would not occur until HAL had established exclusive smoking lounges in every vessel i.e. the Princess “Churchill’s” in order to throw a “bone” out to placate his new smoking guests. When their newest vessel came out without such, I figured it would be a long while before HAL got rid of balcony smoking. But I was wrong.

 

Out of the blue, HAL discontinues balcony smoking without any sort of appeasement for the smokers. Why? It must have been an overwhelming reason though, probably something that weighed heavily on the balance sheet. Perhaps the guests leaving HAL greatly outnumbered the new. Bet they never tell us.

Edited October 5, 2016 by kennicott

[Rustybuttons123]

we have never sailed on a HAL cruise that wasn't fully booked incl. balcony cabins. Some people just want to control others lives. I can't even smell smoke across our balcony when my partner smokes. I wonder if HAL will stop selling cigarettes on board. I have noticed that many of the front office staff regularly are in the smoking area of the Lido bar.

 

You're absolutely right, its really not about the smell so much as it is about controlling your behavior. They won't stop until they can no longer smell the slightest whiff of a cigarette from a mile away! These are the same people who claim my vapes stink too LOL now that's about as wild of an exaggeration as it gets! Good luck!

[Fouremco]

we have never sailed on a HAL cruise that wasn't fully booked incl. balcony cabins. Some people just want to control others lives. I can't even smell smoke across our balcony when my partner smokes. I wonder if HAL will stop selling cigarettes on board. I have noticed that many of the front office staff regularly are in the smoking area of the Lido bar.

No, we'd just like to have control over our own lives. I choose not to be subjected to second-hand smoke, and thanks to HAL's change in policy, I will soon be able to enjoy my balcony in a smoke-free environment.

 

Yes, living with a smoker will definitely dull your sense of smell.

[Lady Arwen]

we have never sailed on a HAL cruise that wasn't fully booked incl. balcony cabins. Some people just want to control others lives. I can't even smell smoke across our balcony when my partner smokes. I wonder if HAL will stop selling cigarettes on board. I have noticed that many of the front office staff regularly are in the smoking area of the Lido bar.

 

Just because it does not bother you and you can't smell it does not mean that it is not offensive to other people on their balconies. Yes, the staff/crew can smoke in the allowed areas just as the passengers can. HAL can sell cigarettes, they just have to be smoked in the smoking sections. HAL has not banned smoking on the ship, just cabins and balconies, just like all the other cruiselines. Non smokers are not trying to control anyone, just trying to control their health.

[Lizzie68]

You're absolutely right, its really not about the smell so much as it is about controlling your behavior. They won't stop until they can no longer smell the slightest whiff of a cigarette from a mile away! These are the same people who claim my vapes stink too LOL now that's about as wild of an exaggeration as it gets! Good luck!

 

I don't know who "they" are, but you are making wild assumptions with a very broad brush. The howls of protest from the smokers and the accusations and insults directed at non-smokers is getting beyond childish. You surely knew this day was coming, now it's time to adapt and move on.

[richstowe]

From an investor learning standpoint it would be interesting to know exactly how this decision played out in the upper echelon sanctums of the Holland America Group headquarters. As I’ve mentioned, I would like to have been a “bug on the wall” there to learn what influenced Stein Kruse’s rationale.

 

A few years ago, after HAL ended up being about the “only game in town” for balcony smoking (except Costa), there was a lot of speculation that smokers loyal to other lines, lines which had now prohibited balcony smoking, would flock to HAL. One reason I kept an eye on this thread was to try and determine what the magnitude of that migration might amount to.

 

It appeared to me that it was quite significant, therefore I guessed that Kruse would not discontinue balcony smoking due to the volume of his new found customer base. And, if he did so I reasoned that would not occur until HAL had established exclusive smoking lounges in every vessel i.e. the Princess “Churchill’s” in order to throw a “bone” out to placate his new smoking guests. When their newest vessel came out without such, I figured it would be a long while before HAL got rid of balcony smoking. But I was wrong.

 

Out of the blue, HAL discontinues balcony smoking without any sort of appeasement for the smokers. Why? It must have been an overwhelming reason though, probably something that weighed heavily on the balance sheet. Perhaps the guests leaving HAL greatly outnumbered the new. Bet they never tell us.

If management made this change for anything but financial reasons , they should be applauded as they are shown the door . Thanks for the morally correct stand - goodbye !

[Aquahound]

You're absolutely right, its really not about the smell so much as it is about controlling your behavior.

 

Nope. Wrong again. It's about the smell. You can try to justify this in your own mind all day long to try to make yourself feel better, but it won't change the facts. The vast majority of people are happy about this change because of the nasty stench it will eliminate from our air. And if smoking continues, we now have recourse to make it stop. Period.

[cruisemom42]

I don't know who "they" are, but you are making wild assumptions with a very broad brush. The howls of protest from the smokers and the accusations and insults directed at non-smokers is getting beyond childish. You surely knew this day was coming, now it's time to adapt and move on.

 

To be fair, 'most' smokers are not howling nor posting accusations or insults. Only a very, very few are. Most are posting either acceptance or sadness that the change will impact their enjoyment of cruising with HAL going forward.

 

This smoking thread is for everyone to express their opinions. We've had 4,000+ posts, mostly from nonsmokers who wanted the policy changed. I don't see why we shouldn't now be prepared to hear at least a few hundred worth from smokers protesting it -- even proportionally speaking that seems fair, yes?

[Got2Cruise]

You're absolutely right, its really not about the smell so much as it is about controlling your behavior. They won't stop until they can no longer smell the slightest whiff of a cigarette from a mile away! These are the same people who claim my vapes stink too LOL now that's about as wild of an exaggeration as it gets! Good luck!

 

 

 

Nothing personal but vapes do stink.

[sandij]

Actually it was the lack of comments from the smokers. I received an email from HAL about the smoking change and they said it was in response to the complaints onboard and on satisfaction cards. so for years the non smokers were complaining and whining and the smokers didn't even know about it and never sang the praises of being able to smoke on the balconies. I don't smoke and have never been bothered by it, if so I just move, it's an easy thing to do. So maybe the smokers should have spoken up sooner, they didn't so let them vent, what else do you want.

[Lizzie68]

To be fair, 'most' smokers are not howling nor posting accusations or insults. Only a very, very few are. Most are posting either acceptance or sadness that the change will impact their enjoyment of cruising with HAL going forward.

 

This smoking thread is for everyone to express their opinions. We've had 4,000+ posts, mostly from nonsmokers who wanted the policy changed. I don't see why we shouldn't now be prepared to hear at least a few hundred worth from smokers protesting it -- even proportionally speaking that seems fair, yes?

 

 

Please check the post to which I was responding - it was not yours. The word used was "they" with no explanation of who "they" is.

[kennicott]

Actually it was the lack of comments from the smokers. I received an email from HAL about the smoking change and they said it was in response to the complaints onboard and on satisfaction cards. so for years the non smokers were complaining and whining and the smokers didn't even know about it and never sang the praises of being able to smoke on the balconies. I don't smoke and have never been bothered by it, if so I just move, it's an easy thing to do. So maybe the smokers should have spoken up sooner, they didn't so let them vent, what else do you want.

 

 

Well, phrase it as you must, your call, but I say that, “so for years the non smokers were complaining and whining” is a tad harsh, considering I have read every one of the posts on this thread since its inception.

 

But you also say: “the smokers didn't even know about it” If that be true, they certainly didn’t read this thread, ever.

[OVgirl]

Nothing personal but vapes do stink.

 

You mean they stink like strawberries and butterscotch?

[peddieplease]

To be fair, 'most' smokers are not howling nor posting accusations or insults. Only a very, very few are. Most are posting either acceptance or sadness that the change will impact their enjoyment of cruising with HAL going forward.

 

This smoking thread is for everyone to express their opinions. We've had 4,000+ posts, mostly from nonsmokers who wanted the policy changed. I don't see why we shouldn't now be prepared to hear at least a few hundred worth from smokers protesting it -- even proportionally speaking that seems fair, yes?

 

You are the voice of reason. I personally feel for the smokers, as I was one myself, as was my hubby, and we enjoyed using the balcony (although we made certain we didn't smoke when we knew our neighbors were outside). I did find it amusing that so many have claimed it was a health issue, but now some are stating that it's about the stench. Either way, the nonsmokers who have fought for this and voiced their opinions loudly should be gracious enough to let the smokers, who I'm sure are quite disappointed about the ban, vent a little. I don't know that we will go on HAL again now that we don't smoke because that was the main draw--that you could smoke on the balcony. Happily, being nonsmokers now, we have many lines and ships to choose from.

[peddieplease]

Every single smoker on board has an indoor place where smoking is allowed on all ships: their cabin. Just be sure you're smoking an e-cig. Problem solved! :D

 

No, problem NOT solved if you're a smoker (and happily I'm not one anymore). That's almost like saying a drinker should be happy because they are allowed non-alcoholic beer in a bar but no alcohol. You obviously have never smoked and don't understand.

[Rustybuttons123]

Nothing personal but vapes do stink.

 

Vape juice comes in a variety of flavors, there's traditional tobacco flavor and I could see that as not too pleasant smelling, although I don't know many who vape tobacco flavor. Most like a wide range of flavors available from coffee to vanilla, chocolate, fruit flavors, tea, cola, coconut/pinapple, bubblegum, peppermint, etc. So making a blanket statement that vapes stink certainly indicates its not a specific smell, since there's so many, but rather its an underlying dislike of the act of vaping, it being visually and emotionally bothersome more so than anything else.

 

We live in a world of artificial smells, colognes, perfumes, body spray, deodorants, air fresheners, cleaners, etc. One particularly strong one is some flavored coffees, I find hazelnut unpleasant, if someone makes a pot it stinks the whole place up and lasts for hours. But the difference is its a specific smell I don't care for, I wouldn't say I hate all coffee smells or object to the use of coffee makers.

[Rustybuttons123]

No, problem NOT solved if you're a smoker (and happily I'm not one anymore). That's almost like saying a drinker should be happy because they are allowed non-alcoholic beer in a bar but no alcohol. You obviously have never smoked and don't understand.

 

The non-alcoholic beer comparison is not accurate, ecigs have nicotine or can, you can also use no nicotine vape juice. But yes its a good alternative for smokers. I quit smoking with ecigs, in fact I enjoy vaping more so than when I smoked and truthfully if ecigs were around 35 years ago I probably never would have smoked.

[peddieplease]

Of course it can Lisa. Would be best to allocate a little less than projected smokers, maybe only 5 or 10% cabins, this would ensure only smokers are using them and there will be some smokers who will miss out if they don't book early enough or just use the designated areas. There's no ventilation on balconies, it's natural ventilation, same as the designated outdoor areas. That's just absurd. As for travelling up or down, it does from designated areas too, and people go a little overboard on insisting they can't tolerate even the slightest hint, silly too...of course meanwhile have no problem with a lung full of diesel exhaust, fumes from heavy duty cleaners, etc.

 

I like you, Rustybuttons. Yes, it could be done. I feel for the smokers who are so disappointed. I would have been at one time, too. I'm glad I don't smoke anymore, but I will never be one of those nonsmokers who seems to like to kick people when they're down (I've read a few posts here that are indicative of that behavior). I just hope that now that the balcony smoking has been banned, nonsmokers won't turn to trying to get it banned everywhere on board. I'm sure most are reasonable, but . . .

[sun~]

Vapes do stink. Nasty chemical smell. Fruity and perfumy stench. I know smokers can't smell it. They think it is ok.

 

I just sorry for the poor addicted sods who trade one oral fixation for another.

 

I don't want to smell either, anywhere.

 

I am so happy HAL changed the policy for verandah smoking. Fresh air. Yay!

[peddieplease]

Yes now I can enjoy my balcony and have my morning coffee without smoke blasting me in my face.

I would like to go to.the Seaview bar and enjoy a drink instead of spending an hour trying to find a spot that may lend me smokefree as possible.

I would like to enjoy a cocktail on my balcony in my pajamas as I wonder the vastness of the ocean instead of enduring the smoke that clouds my eyes and tastebuds.

 

Sorry, but clouds your eyes? Oh, the drama. :D

[Charles4515]

I like you, Rustybuttons. Yes, it could be done. I feel for the smokers who are so disappointed. I would have been at one time, too. I'm glad I don't smoke anymore, but I will never be one of those nonsmokers who seems to like to kick people when they're down (I've read a few posts here that are indicative of that behavior). I just hope that now that the balcony smoking has been banned, nonsmokers won't turn to trying to get it banned everywhere on board. I'm sure most are reasonable, but . . .

 

 

 

Not banned everywhere onboard, none inside, ban it in the casino...

 

 

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Edited October 6, 2016 by Charles4515

[Florida_gal_50]

Actually it was the lack of comments from the smokers. I received an email from HAL about the smoking change and they said it was in response to the complaints onboard and on satisfaction cards. so for years the non smokers were complaining and whining and the smokers didn't even know about it and never sang the praises of being able to smoke on the balconies. I don't smoke and have never been bothered by it, if so I just move, it's an easy thing to do. So maybe the smokers should have spoken up sooner, they didn't so let them vent, what else do you want.

 

Yes, that's why hal changed it, because the smokers didn't say how much they appreciated it:D. Thank you, I haven't laughed so hard for quite a while. You may not smoke but you've posted that your husband does. That's likely why it doesn't bother you. I applaud Hal for making this long overdue change.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Florida_gal_50

[Rustybuttons123]

I like you, Rustybuttons. Yes, it could be done. I feel for the smokers who are so disappointed. I would have been at one time, too. I'm glad I don't smoke anymore, but I will never be one of those nonsmokers who seems to like to kick people when they're down (I've read a few posts here that are indicative of that behavior). I just hope that now that the balcony smoking has been banned, nonsmokers won't turn to trying to get it banned everywhere on board. I'm sure most are reasonable, but . . .

 

Thanks Peddie, it wasn't a very popular suggestion though lol The truth is some non-smokers will never be satisfied with accommodating smokers in any way, their goal is for it to be completely removed. Since smokers have been moved outdoors people still complain. An example, where I work we have an outdoor smoking hut, its placed in between the parking garage and the side of a building with no doors. You would think this would be more than enough to satisfy non-smokers and provide smokers a place to smoke. Yet non-smokers still complain that they should not have to walk by it and smell the air, even though they could take a different route that distance wise is the same.