Healthcare worker possibly exposed to Ebola, sailing on Carnival ship

[Orator]

I see a real positive in any Ebola panic. People in our part of the world now see a possibility that Ebola can affect them quite directly. IMHO this may cause some to give the elimination of Ebola a higher priority. More funding for Ebola research may lead to effective drugs which can save lives in Africa.

[gek]

I wonder if the Carnival Magic has to get special cleaning after the passengers disembark in Galveston and will the next sailing be delayed?

 

Why would it? There is absolutely no evidence that anyone with the Ebola virus has been on board.

[jszpira]

I see a real positive in any Ebola panic. People in our part of the world now see a possibility that Ebola can affect them quite directly. IMHO this may cause some to give the elimination of Ebola a higher priority. More funding for Ebola research may lead to effective drugs which can save lives in Africa.

 

 

Agree. More knowledge and awareness will hopefully bring about a solution that lowers the mortality rate.

I was thinking, if there was a disease that only affected the 1%, how long would it take to find a cute? 72 hours? Haha.

Edited October 19, 2014 by jszpira

[WpgCruise]

I see a real positive in any Ebola panic. People in our part of the world now see a possibility that Ebola can affect them quite directly. IMHO this may cause some to give the elimination of Ebola a higher priority. More funding for Ebola research may lead to effective drugs which can save lives in Africa.

 

Done.

 

 

 

http://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/canada-to-start-shipping-experimental-ebola-vaccine-on-monday-government-says-1.2059933

[LMaxwell]

The problem with all your "questions" is they are based on hysteria and "WHAT IF" instead of the actual facts of the situation.

 

 

I'm not hysterical about Ebola at all. This woman is selfish and stupid. She was directed to self-check herself for THREE weeks and decided at TWO weeks to board a cruise ship where practically NOTHING can be done medically speaking IF the need arose. That's the point. I'm not cancelling any travel plans or freaking out over ebola. But I don't understand people actually defending this womans stupidity.

[Pushka]

The thing about Ebola is that 70% of people who contract it, die.

[jszpira]

The thing about Ebola is that 70% of people who contract it, die.

 

 

True. However, all those infections are happening in areas of the world were healthcare is not the best. Many of those infected were malnourished, underweight and in generally bad health. I would assume that their already taxed immune systems put them at a disadvantage.

If such an outbreak occurred in the USA, I bet the mortality rate would be much higher than anyone would feel comfortable with, but likely it would be a lot lower than 70%.

Just my opinion.

[K.T.B.]

ALthough unlikely, it IS theoretically possible for ebola to be transmitted via mucous membranes. Though sneezing isn't a symptom of ebola, IF the person with a high level of the pathogen in their body did sneeze, it IS possible for it to be absorbed by the mucus membranes (eyes, nose, mouth) of someone else.

 

 

I am a heath care professional and I would be very worried if I had to care for an ebola patient. OTOH I would err on the side of caution if I were w/in the 21 day communicability period but that's just me.

 

This is from the updated CDC pdf:

 

When an infection does occur in humans, there are several ways the virus can be spread to others. These include:

• direct contact with the blood or body fluids (including but not limited to feces, saliva, urine, vomit and semen) of a person who is sick with Ebola

• contact with objects (like needles and syringes) that have been contaminated with the blood or body fluids of an infected person or with infected animals

The virus in the blood and body fluids can enter another person’s body through broken skin or unprotected mucous membranes in, for example, the eyes, nose, or mouth. The viruses that cause Ebola are often spread among families and friends, because they come in close contact with blood or body fluids when caring for ill persons.

 

The entire PDF file is here:

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/pdf/ebola-factsheet.pdf

 

I live in the DFW area. I'm an RN. I'm not an alarmist but I am concerned.

Yes that lab worker COULD have (and in hindsight should have?) cancelled her cruise but the CDC AT THAT TIME didn't suggest that. Unlike the RN that flew knowing she had a low grade fever, this lab worker was afebrile. Fever IS a symptom of ebola so the nurse that flew was on her way to being symptomatic and did indeed test positive. As far as we know the person on the cruise ship is still asymptomatic.

 

And I DO believe that the Texas Presbyterian Dallas missed the boat on the medical care of Duncan as well as the isolation techniques and equipment for the healthcare workers. The 2 nurses that are ill took care of Duncan the first day… before diagnosis (though by then they had a good idea) and isolation requirements became MUCH more stringent AFTER diagnosis.

 

Also Ebola is a LEVEL 4 pathogen which is mostly just the hemorrhagic fevers. Yes people die of the flu but the vast majority of people who contract influenza are good as new in weeks or even days. MOST DO NOT DIE. Nor do most people die of noro, the cold, TB etc.

 

There are only 4 hospitals (NIH, Emory, Nebraska and Missoula, Montanna) that are fully equipped to handle ebola. And of those hospitals the number of Level 4 isolation beds is anywhere from 8 to 18 depending on staffing etc. TOTAL.

So yes, Texas didn't do as well as one would hope with the initial patient. But it's doubtful if many of the hospitals in the US would be able to do better (outside the 4 mentioned above.) This is still a very steep learning curve for all the hospitals and health care workers in the United States. Unfortunately Mr. Duncan is probably not the last person to fly into the US while infected with ebola.

 

It's a fine line to walk between ignoring the danger and absolute panic.

 

Hmmmm, that look familiar....

 

Oh yes: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=44463546&postcount=113

 

:rolleyes:

[Pushka]

If such an outbreak occurred in the USA, I bet the mortality rate would be much higher than anyone would feel comfortable with, but likely it would be a lot lower than 70%.

Just my opinion.

 

 

The infection rate might be lower due to better sanitary provisions but I'd suggest the mortality rate would stay the same.

[yorky]

The problem with all your "questions" is they are based on hysteria and "WHAT IF" instead of the actual facts of the situation.

 

This particular health care worker's risk of contracting the disease as part of her job is so small that she presented a greater risk of spreading noro-virus than Ebola on that cruise.

 

You are NEVER going to get a policy that limits the travel of people simply because of their occupation and what MIGHT happen.

 

But to counter your hysterical rantings that might provoke fear in others: had this person started showing symptoms of Ebola they can easily anchor the ship off shore. A hazmat suit can be sent in for the patient in order to evacuate her without further contact with others. The room can be sealed until it can be properly decontaminated.

 

Seriously your imagination is out of control. There were less hysterical fears coming out of people who flew on a closed plane with a nurse who DOES have Ebola now than what is being said in this thread about a passenger who is not showing one symptom of ANY illness let alone Ebola.

 

Let me put it this way, on another forum I use one poster asked if it was still safe to fly to America as they have Ebola now, that's how daft it's getting at times, there are actually people that think the whole of the U.S. is now off limits.

[Adidas4fun]

Let me put it this way, on another forum I use one poster asked if it was still safe to fly to America as they have Ebola now, that's how daft it's getting at times, there are actually people that think the whole of the U.S. is now off limits.

 

It should be. More people will be killed by firearms in the US in the next 1yr than will catch ebola in the whole world!

[gek]

Let me put it this way, on another forum I use one poster asked if it was still safe to fly to America as they have Ebola now, that's how daft it's getting at times, there are actually people that think the whole of the U.S. is now off limits.

 

I heard that Ebola is spreading rapidly in the US. The victims are rising from the dead and the zombie apocalypse is nigh. Or so I was told.

[richsea]

I heard that Ebola is spreading rapidly in the US. The victims are rising from the dead and the zombie apocalypse is nigh. Or so I was told.

 

That's only on "The Walking Dead", & the 100 spin offs.

[MizDemeanor]

Why would it? There is absolutely no evidence that anyone with the Ebola virus has been on board.

 

I guess Carnival did indeed pursue this approach so their guests are much more comfortable about boarding.

[MizDemeanor]

I see a real positive in any Ebola panic. People in our part of the world now see a possibility that Ebola can affect them quite directly. IMHO this may cause some to give the elimination of Ebola a higher priority. More funding for Ebola research may lead to effective drugs which can save lives in Africa.

 

I agree.

[yorky]

I agree.

 

I don't, panic is never a good thing and generals ends up with someone getting hurt one way or another. I'm old enough to still remember the aids panic in the 1980s and nothing good came from that, I could probably name a dozen instances of where panic has made situations much worse rather than better.

[herbanrenewal]

I'm not hysterical about Ebola at all. This woman is selfish and stupid. She was directed to self-check herself for THREE weeks and decided at TWO weeks to board a cruise ship where practically NOTHING can be done medically speaking IF the need arose. That's the point. I'm not cancelling any travel plans or freaking out over ebola. But I don't understand people actually defending this womans stupidity.

 

I am disturbed by comments like this.

These nurses risked their lives, as all health care workers do every day, using the best evidence based practices available to them at the point in time.

 

The nurse with the temp of 99.5 called the contact she was given at the CDC and told she could travel. She did NOT disobey directions to take her temperature twice a day, and did notify the contact she was given of a low elevation (not fever). She did exactly as she was told by the people who we as a nation trust to protect us.

 

The lab tech was also told that she should take her temp twice a day and report elevations, which she never had, but did inform Carnival personnel when she heard about the nurse who had travelled. She and her husband also self isolated.

She also was tested before the ship docked and results should be available today, which is also the last day of the incubation period - if she was infected she would have symptoms by now. If the world's medical personnel are correct, without symptoms she was never a danger to others. She did everything in her power to protect others.

 

Instead of uninformed statements vilifying these people we should be treating them like the firefighters on 9/11. They willingly put themselves in positions of danger to try to save lives. They used the information available at THAT point in time to try to save lives.

The fact that in retrospect the information they had was inadequate does not make them culpable for the after effects.

Edited October 19, 2014 by herbanrenewal

[NLH Arizona]

Carnival ship now in port. The woman was allowed to leave the ship and drive herself home, because she is shown to have no symptoms.

[H2OH!]

 

 

Instead of uninformed statements vilifying these people we should be treating them like the firefighters on 9/11. They willingly put themselves in positions of danger to try to save lives. They used the information available at THAT point in time to try to save lives.

The fact that in retrospect the information they had was inadequate does not make them culpable for the after effects.

 

 

Perfectly stated!!

[sptrout]

Carnival ship now in port. The woman was allowed to leave the ship and drive herself home, because she is shown to have no symptoms.

 

Just a note to add a comment that the CDC sent a helicopter out to the ship Friday to get a sample of blood (I assume) to test for Ebola before the ship arrived back in Galveston this morning. The sample tested negative for Ebola, which is why the couple were the first to disembark this morning and then they headed back home.

[DYKWIA]

The thing about Ebola is that 70% of people who contract it, die.

 

I believe the WHO say that is closer to 50%

[Sow There]

 

I am disturbed by comments like this.

These nurses risked their lives, as all health care workers do every day, using the best evidence based practices available to them at the point in time.

 

The nurse with the temp of 99.5 called the contact she was given at the CDC and told she could travel. She did NOT disobey directions to take her temperature twice a day, and did notify the contact she was given of a low elevation (not fever). She did exactly as she was told by the people who we as a nation trust to protect us.

 

The lab tech was also told that she should take her temp twice a day and report elevations, which she never had, but did inform Carnival personnel when she heard about the nurse who had travelled. She and her husband also self isolated.

She also was tested before the ship docked and results should be available today, which is also the last day of the incubation period - if she was infected she would have symptoms by now. If the world's medical personnel are correct, without symptoms she was never a danger to others. She did everything in her power to protect others.

 

Instead of uninformed statements vilifying these people we should be treating them like the firefighters on 9/11. They willingly put themselves in positions of danger to try to save lives. They used the information available at THAT point in time to try to save lives.

The fact that in retrospect the information they had was inadequate does not make them culpable for the after effects.

 

Whilst following this thread and worse, the hysterical media coverage, I kept thinking about this heroic woman who, not only chose a selfless and wonderful profession, she also followed all the directives issued by the dolts who should have, but did not, fully study and communicate protocols more completely.

 

More to the point, she would have been better off, personally, just keeping her mouth shut and no one would ever have known. But again, in a selfless move, she sjhowed much more concern about the health of the public than whe was worried about her own situation.

 

Unfortunately her heroism will probably go unrecognized and she will continue to be vilified for interfering with a few thoughtless Carnival cruisers who missed a chance to visit Belize.

 

Herbanrenewal, your post totally nailed it and said exactly what I was thinking. Thnaks for your terrific post.

[Clydesmom7865]

 

I am disturbed by comments like this.

These nurses risked their lives, as all health care workers do every day, using the best evidence based practices available to them at the point in time.

 

The nurse with the temp of 99.5 called the contact she was given at the CDC and told she could travel. She did NOT disobey directions to take her temperature twice a day, and did notify the contact she was given of a low elevation (not fever). She did exactly as she was told by the people who we as a nation trust to protect us.

 

The lab tech was also told that she should take her temp twice a day and report elevations, which she never had, but did inform Carnival personnel when she heard about the nurse who had travelled. She and her husband also self isolated.

She also was tested before the ship docked and results should be available today, which is also the last day of the incubation period - if she was infected she would have symptoms by now. If the world's medical personnel are correct, without symptoms she was never a danger to others. She did everything in her power to protect others.

 

Instead of uninformed statements vilifying these people we should be treating them like the firefighters on 9/11. They willingly put themselves in positions of danger to try to save lives. They used the information available at THAT point in time to try to save lives.

The fact that in retrospect the information they had was inadequate does not make them culpable for the after effects.

 

I was getting ready to respond to that posters latest uninformed hysteria when you posted. GREAT response and no need for me to add to it. Thank you.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Clydesmom7865

[LMaxwell]

What is the protocol if she had started showing symptoms while on the cruise? No one has answered this question on any forum. I suspect many people just don't have an answer so they ignore the question. I mean it worked out THIS TIME, so why bother knowing the answer anyways.

 

It is a disgrace, in my opinion, to liken her actions to those of 9/11 first responders. They are true heroes who we continually honor and will never forget their sacrifices. In my opinion this is a woman who did not think about potential consequences (she boarded at day 14 out of 21 day self-monitor period). Should CDC have better protocol and procedures? YES. Does that absolve a health care professional from making poor judgment calls? Absolutely not in my book. She should be held to a higher standard and quite frankly knowing the case she was involved in she should have exhibited an abundance of caution and delayed her trip until it was certain that she did not have the disease. Plain and simple. I had a hard enough time understanding the defense of her decision, to liken her to 9/11 first responders is beyond imagination.

 

These are MY opinions. I am sure many don't agree. We all get to have our opinions and view points. I am glad this worked out this time, but many of you would be singing a very different tune if it did not work out whereas I would still have the same exact opinion; she should have known better and she should not have boarded that ship during the self-monitor incubation period. No one can make a reasonable argument that she acted with an abundance of caution; I mean she went from truly believing she was fine to being quarantined, so there was at least reasonable doubt as to her own self-diagnosis (and she is a lab supervisor, NOT a doctor. She is not qualified to make that call about herself during the incubation period...)

 

These are all facts of the matter.

[Gonzo70]

 

I am disturbed by comments like this.

These nurses risked their lives, as all health care workers do every day, using the best evidence based practices available to them at the point in time.

 

The nurse with the temp of 99.5 called the contact she was given at the CDC and told she could travel. She did NOT disobey directions to take her temperature twice a day, and did notify the contact she was given of a low elevation (not fever). She did exactly as she was told by the people who we as a nation trust to protect us.

 

The lab tech was also told that she should take her temp twice a day and report elevations, which she never had, but did inform Carnival personnel when she heard about the nurse who had travelled. She and her husband also self isolated.

She also was tested before the ship docked and results should be available today, which is also the last day of the incubation period - if she was infected she would have symptoms by now. If the world's medical personnel are correct, without symptoms she was never a danger to others. She did everything in her power to protect others.

 

Instead of uninformed statements vilifying these people we should be treating them like the firefighters on 9/11. They willingly put themselves in positions of danger to try to save lives. They used the information available at THAT point in time to try to save lives.

The fact that in retrospect the information they had was inadequate does not make them culpable for the after effects.

 

Outstanding post; very well stated and accurate. I wholeheartedly agree.