Dynamic Dining postponed for Oasis & Allure

[LetsGetWet!]

Like I said earlier, I really don't have an opinion one way or the other. I am, very intrigued by this conversation because in theory-it seems like a good one and I'm trying to figure out how this went so horribly wrong.

 

I do like the concept of the whole walk in for dinner. I was never a fan of the MDR so this looked promising. I'm thinking people making reservations months out and probably most cancelling screwed up this system so bad. The whole tablet help instead of an actual human was probably another big blunder. I am so curious to see if they can make this work as it is a concept that I think most would like if it ran smoothly. I just hate having to be told when I have to eat. Even the MTD concept wants you to make reservations before you are on the ship. I don't know about anyone else but I never know what adventure I put myself in day to day on vacation none the less know months out when I'm going to want to eat.

 

If Princes threw in the whole towel on this, makes me wonder what Royal thought they would do different. NCL does seem to work-right?? Putting aside weather you like the ship or not. At least I'm reading some improvements on Quantum.

 

If this DD does flop, I do hope they keep adding those Coastal Kitchens fleet wide though.

A lot of our friends have tried NCL and won't go back because Freestyle didn't work for them, so I wouldn't say it's an unqualified success. And Princess thankfully only tried it on two ships.

 

I didn't mind traditional seating - although we adhered to it for a few years, we eventually go to the point where, if we weren't hungry at dinner time, or if we were hungry earlier, or if we were in port having a great time and eating there, we didn't go and were fine with the Windjammer. Now we enjoy the specialty restaurants a few times each cruise, the MDR once or twice and the WJ the rest of the time.

Yep, NCL's Freestyle isn't exactly an unqualified success, although its certainly worked better than DD (so far at least) for RCI.

 

Where did it go wrong? In multiple places, I think...

 

• Makes the advance planning for your cruise MUCH more work. There's something to be said for getting set for early, late or MTD once and the forget about it. With DD as rolled out, you make reservations for each night and each time and each restaurant, and have to coordinate that planning & reservation process with shows you want to see and others in your group you want to dine with.
  
• Insufficient capacity coupled with insufficient staffing - the staffing issue is fixable (although involves $$) but the capacity issue is much tougher. Left to their own devices, an awful lot of people want to eat around 7:00-7:30. That results in way too many people wanting in all at once. With traditional dining, early and late seating are givens, and are timed to maximize the usage of the MDR. The insufficient staffing means that the average time for dinner is running 2.5-3 hours. Since the venues all open at 5:30, that means that NO ONE who showed up when they opened is leaving by the peak demand 7:00-7:30 time so their table can be turned. That means...
  
• Long lines & long waits for dinner, whether or not you've made advanced reservations or not! Standing in line for 30 minutes or more, than having to wait more than an hour for your main course to be delivered resulting in total dinner time expenditures of 3 hours or more is not the way to make happy cruisers.
  
• By normal 8:30 late dining time, the demand is likely much lower, but only because most everyone has already eaten - or tried to do so! The ship no longer has the ability to have a good percentage of diners assigned to a later 8:30 dining time, at which time their tables would pretty much be guaranteed to have turned and be ready for them.
  

I guess that's it in a nutshell, in my opinion. Personally, I'm still on the fence about DD myself. I like much of the concept - different menu themes in different venues that one can pick and choose - and a venue where (hopefully) "somewhat formal" dress codes will be adhered to and enforced. But difficult and time-consuming advance planning & reservations, long wait times to be seated and then overly long time spans for the meal itself - makes it all not the kind of relaxing, enjoyable experience I'm looking for on vacation.

[Paulxyz2004]

I'm glad you like that option but there are many who do not and who think there are other options they would enjoy better than the same table, same time, same table mates, same waiters, and two formal nights per cruise. Not saying that what you like is bad, it just that others prefer something different.

 

With the current concetpt of traditional MDR + MTD + Windjammer + specialty Restaurants nobody needs to sit at the same table, with the same table mates and same waiters for the cruise and let´s face it, formal nights are totally optional these days.

 

Unfortunately DD will eliminate the choice for one Group of cruisers. Even Freestyle gives a better Option to please the more traditional Group than DD.

 

I have been on one NCL cruise and haven´t returned because of Freestyle, but I think I´d rather cruise NCL Freestyle than RCI DD (and this has nothing to do with reported Problems, the concept itself Fails on me).

[xpcdoojk]

A lot of our friends have tried NCL and won't go back because Freestyle didn't work for them, so I wouldn't say it's an unqualified success. And Princess thankfully only tried it on two ships.

 

I didn't mind traditional seating - although we adhered to it for a few years, we eventually go to the point where, if we weren't hungry at dinner time, or if we were hungry earlier, or if we were in port having a great time and eating there, we didn't go and were fine with the Windjammer. Now we enjoy the specialty restaurants a few times each cruise, the MDR once or twice and the WJ the rest of the time.

 

I was not a fan of the Princess set up on the Diamond when we were downunder a few yars ago. That said, what RCI is doing does indeed seem similar.

 

That said, the Princess set up didn't really put me of cruising with them, if they would add a flowrider, I would consider them again.:D

 

jc

[Debde]

LetsGetWet!-probably some of many reasons!!

 

One other thing is, I think the chefs were not prepared to properly stagger meals since there is no more all at once appetizers and then dinner. AKA catering style kitchen service. I'll bet they lost their minds in the kitchen and still are!! the fly on the wall moment is probably priceless!!:eek:

 

I have worked in many restaurants and this is a task not easy. I was told many times, keep them happy, get them drinks. Well, last time I was in the MDR it was absolutely impossible to even get a drink as bar staff was cut back to almost non existent!!:mad:

[CptSticky]

That makes sense to me as someone who recently tried Freestyle. We liked it and ended up booking another NCL cruise, but if you don't like it, I don't see how you could happily cruise NCL. Simple as that, and many want the traditional fixed time / table dining.

 

With that said, Freestyle does in fact work (as in function properly). I hope RCI is starting to see what they need to do to make DD function properly, so that people can then go and make informed judgments about whether they like it or not. It's a shame that many folks who might actually like DD if functioning properly are getting turned off by RCI's poor execution and planning.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Cruise Critic Forums mobile app

This seems like a fair statement. I might actually like it if presented properly (I don't think I would but might be willing to give it a try). Unfortunately, like many things 'Royal' these days it's not being implemented well.

Thank you for a reasoned response.

[LetsGetWet!]

LetsGetWet!-probably some of many reasons!!

 

One other thing is, I think the chefs were not prepared to properly stagger meals since there is no more all at once appetizers and then dinner. AKA catering style kitchen service. I'll bet they lost their minds in the kitchen and still are!! the fly on the wall moment is probably priceless!!:eek:

 

I have worked in many restaurants and this is a task not easy. I was told many times, keep them happy, get them drinks. Well, last time I was in the MDR it was absolutely impossible to even get a drink as bar staff was cut back to almost non existent!!:mad:

Definitely more good points, Deb. Long lines to stand in AND you can't get a drink while you wait - unless you run half way across the ship to another bar! And your point about staggered meal delivery being a big issue behind the scenes also sounds right on.

Edited January 7, 2015 by LetsGetWet!

[Jimmers]

It is a benefit to RCCL. Less staff and less different menu choices. They will try to spin it as a passenger benefit in their marketing. That remains to be seen but at this point I don't think so.

 

Staff is a big draw on the bottom line of any business so I don't doubt that RCI isn't trying to streamline it. But I'm not sure how decentralizing the dining operation accomplishes that. It seems like it would be more efficient to serve everyone at the same place.

 

And I think it's safe to say there is a sizable portion of the cruising community that prefer this system. Does RCI just push DD down the throats of these people and say take it or leave it? It would seem so.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Jimmers

[3dog]

Yep, NCL's Freestyle isn't exactly an unqualified success, although its certainly worked better than DD (so far at least) for RCI.

 

I disagree. If it weren't a success, not only would it have been dropped on NCL, but other lines wouldn't have implemented their flexible dining (e.g. MTD), nor would RCI have even considered DD.

 

I grant you that there are many people who dislike it (as evidenced by the number of anti-DD/MTD posts), but as a number of ships (not just RCI) have half or more of their dining space allocated to flexible dining, it would seem that there is a growing preference to this concept in general.

 

 

IMO, where DD appears to have failed was in the implementation, and not the concept. It is bad enough that RCCL could go a long way in improving their customer-facing IT (the corporation in general, as this seems to apply to all their brands), but they also seemed to look at it as a cost-reducing concept instead of a revenue-generating or even customer-desired concept. Technology could have helped if not only the tools worked properly, but the staff was appropriately allocated and deployed to support the technology.

[LetsGetWet!]

Wonder what the cost was to retrofit the Oasis?

 

David:D

From what I've read here - the cost to retrofit the Oasis was quite minor. New signage, maybe some decor, and that's about it. Don't think they "walled off" separate restaurants - just segregated the different floors of the existing MDR into newly-signed individual venues - but you can still see from one to the other, especially if seated near the middle.

[LetsGetWet!]

I disagree. If it weren't a success, not only would it have been dropped on NCL, but other lines wouldn't have implemented their flexible dining (e.g. MTD), nor would RCI have even considered DD.

 

I grant you that there are many people who dislike it (as evidenced by the number of anti-DD/MTD posts), but as a number of ships (not just RCI) have half or more of their dining space allocated to flexible dining, it would seem that there is a growing preference to this concept in general.

 

 

IMO, where DD appears to have failed was in the implementation, and not the concept. It is bad enough that RCCL could go a long way in improving their customer-facing IT (the corporation in general, as this seems to apply to all their brands), but they also seemed to look at it as a cost-reducing concept instead of a revenue-generating or even customer-desired concept. Technology could have helped if not only the tools worked properly, but the staff was appropriately allocated and deployed to support the technology.

I said that it wasn't an unqualified success, and you echoed that by admitting that "I grant you that there are many people who dislike it." You also said that "IMO, where DD appears to have failed was in the implementation, and not the concept." First of all, again I basically agreed, pointing out that Freestyle was working much better than RCI's DD, at least so far. Second, there's a huge difference between Freestyle and DD. DD is a MUCH more complex system, both for the passengers and the staff. Freestyle, I believe, has 2 main dining rooms, and Freestyle basically means no reservations, no set dining times - its much closer to RCI's MyTime Dining than it is to their new Dynamic Dining.

[LuvBNatC]

I'm glad you like that option but there are many who do not and who think there are other options they would enjoy better than the same table, same time, same table mates, same waiters, and two formal nights per cruise. Not saying that what you like is bad, it just that others prefer something different.

 

If by "something different," you mean picking a place to eat, deciding on a night and a time, and making a reservation, I think you're describing exactly what people do on land every day whenever they want to eat at a fancy restaurant.

 

Personally, I cruise to actually do "something different."

 

And what was different was traditional dining (I'm not talking about formal nights -- just eating). It took all the planning and uncertainty out of the equation, and threw in finding potential new friends at the table to boot. IMHO it made the evening meal a pleasant no-brainer, UNLIKE what I have to do to round up people to go out for a nice meal at home.

 

It's looking like DD is quickly morphing into NCL Freestyle, not that there's anything wrong with that. But why an NCL clone when so many passengers remain "loyal to Royal" because they LIKE traditional dining?

 

My last cruise was Freestyle, and it will probably be my last cruise doing Freestyle. As a solo, I hated it.

[3dog]

I said that it wasn't an unqualified success

 

You said it "isn't exactly an unqualified success" and I disagreed. Even CC has a paragraph on how Freestyle is a "Favorite Cruise Ship Innovation":

http://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=1697&et_cid=1948934&et_rid=17524358&et_referrer=Boards

 

So my opinion is that it is an "unqualified" success (but this is my opinion, so we can agree or not).

 

and you echoed that by admitting that "I grant you that there are many people who dislike it."

 

That some people dislike something doesn't make it a failure or even 'not a success' (qualified or unqualified). Again it is my opinion, but to me something is successful (even "unqualified") if there is a sufficient number of people who like it enough that demand significantly outweighs the supply. Some people didn't like Oasis before the renovation, but I think that it is an unqualified success (same as freestyle on NCL).

 

You also said that "IMO, where DD appears to have failed was in the implementation, and not the concept." First of all, again I basically agreed, pointing out that Freestyle was working much better than RCI's DD, at least so far. Second, there's a huge difference between Freestyle and DD. DD is a MUCH more complex system, both for the passengers and the staff. Freestyle, I believe, has 2 main dining rooms, and Freestyle basically means no reservations, no set dining times - its much closer to RCI's MyTime Dining than it is to their new Dynamic Dining.

 

I'm not sure how the concept of DD is "MUCH" more complex that MTD or Freestyle, but appears it was unnecessarily made more complex by it's implementation. And hence where we seem to agree (and I just reiterated agreement in my own words).

 

I even went further to suggest that the implementation failure is due to an error in thinking that the technology itself is the cornerstone of service, without sufficient consideration as to how the interaction with the customer will properly function.

[LetsGetWet!]

I even went further to suggest that the implementation failure is due to an error in thinking that the technology itself is the cornerstone of service, without sufficient consideration as to how the interaction with the customer will properly function.

Haha, we'll have to disagree with that too I guess! :) Technology issues are ONE issue with DD, but most certainly not the ONLY issue by any means. I already outlined what I feel several significant issues with the concept as currently executed are. Some are obviously fixable, others much less so.

[wolfganghowell]

To avoid going through 30 pages, do we have an implentation date yet or is it still "later in the year"? We certainly WANT DD for our November sailing!

[Clarea]

To avoid going through 30 pages, do we have an implentation date yet or is it still "later in the year"? We certainly WANT DD for our November sailing!

No date yet.

[3dog]

Haha, we'll have to disagree with that too I guess! :) Technology issues are ONE issue with DD, but most certainly not the ONLY issue by any means. I already outlined what I feel several significant issues with the concept as currently executed are. Some are obviously fixable, others much less so.

 

Quite possible, but let me see if I can sway you in this direction.

 

My primary point in the assertion was that the over reliance on the technology is a "cornerstone", such that if it fails, everything else inevitably fails (just doesn't matter how good the staff is in trying to resolve guest issues).

 

The basis is that there is the assumption that the technology will streamline the process, such that RCI can reduce staff as those that remain are more efficient, and customers are much happier (often a fatal flaw in service-oriented businesses).

 

But, start with a poor implementation to the reservation system, and guests are confused as to when/where they are dining. As this is just as unclear or to some extent, missing to staff, and they are just as confused and cannot provide answers or solutions. Staff also can not or do not appropriately prioritize guests on arrival just adding to the confusion and the backup.

 

Once in the dining room, the waiters have tablets for ordering. This isn't a new concept, and in other places works well. Unfortunately, it seems as if these are not working well either. Add to this that the waiter now has to also be the assistant waiter, even if the technology worked, the staff is likely overworked, with the technology they are definitely overworked and inefficient (working remote ordering systems in volume situations depend on the person taking the order being different from the person delivering the order).

 

Implementation fixes will be more than just fixing the technology, but will start with changing what I believe is the primary flaw: "thinking that the technology itself is the cornerstone of service".

[Debde]

Technology issues are ONE issue with DD, but most certainly not the ONLY issue by any means.

 

I absolutely agree here.

 

I see your point 3dog and you are spot on with technology flaws but I do feel there is quite a bit of other issues that have nothing to do with technology.

 

Armchair quarterbacking, I do see possible solutions but not all are technology based.

[LetsGetWet!]

Quite possible, but let me see if I can sway you in this direction.

 

My primary point in the assertion was that the over reliance on the technology is a "cornerstone", such that if it fails, everything else inevitably fails (just doesn't matter how good the staff is in trying to resolve guest issues).

 

The basis is that there is the assumption that the technology will streamline the process, such that RCI can reduce staff as those that remain are more efficient, and customers are much happier (often a fatal flaw in service-oriented businesses).

 

But, start with a poor implementation to the reservation system, and guests are confused as to when/where they are dining. As this is just as unclear or to some extent, missing to staff, and they are just as confused and cannot provide answers or solutions. Staff also can not or do not appropriately prioritize guests on arrival just adding to the confusion and the backup.

 

Once in the dining room, the waiters have tablets for ordering. This isn't a new concept, and in other places works well. Unfortunately, it seems as if these are not working well either. Add to this that the waiter now has to also be the assistant waiter, even if the technology worked, the staff is likely overworked, with the technology they are definitely overworked and inefficient (working remote ordering systems in volume situations depend on the person taking the order being different from the person delivering the order).

 

Implementation fixes will be more than just fixing the technology, but will start with changing what I believe is the primary flaw: "thinking that the technology itself is the cornerstone of service".

I absolutely agree here.

 

I see your point 3dog and you are spot on with technology flaws but I do feel there is quite a bit of other issues that have nothing to do with technology.

 

Armchair quarterbacking, I do see possible solutions but not all are technology based.

Here's a great example of one issue which no amount of technology is going to fix. With traditional dining, passengers have dining times at 6:00 or 8:30 (5:30 or 8:00 on some ships.) Even adding in MTD, a significant percentage of passengers will still be dining at the early or late traditional times.

 

Now, with DD, the trouble is - left to choose their own dinner time, not very many want to dine as early as 5:30-6:00, or as late as 8:00-8:30. A large percentage - definitely larger than capacity - will pick 7:00-7:30 to dine. Relatively few will be there when the dining room opens, and likewise relatively few will wait to show up until 8:30. Thus, you've jammed a large percentage of cruisers into trying to eat dinner in the same time slot. No amount of technology will fix that - coupled with another fact with Quantum/Anthem making it even worse - the 4 venues combined seat a significantly smaller percentage of passengers than the traditional MDR on older ships.

 

So, how do you propose to solve that with technology?

[Debde]

Now, with DD, the trouble is - left to choose their own dinner time, not very many want to dine as early as 5:30-6:00, or as late as 8:00-8:30. A large percentage - definitely larger than capacity - will pick 7:00-7:30 to dine. Relatively few will be there when the dining room opens, and likewise relatively few will wait to show up until 8:30. Thus, you've jammed a large percentage of cruisers into trying to eat dinner in the same time slot. No amount of technology will fix that - coupled with another fact with Quantum/Anthem making it even worse - the 4 venues combined seat a significantly smaller percentage of passengers than the traditional MDR on older ships.

 

So, how do you propose to solve that with technology?

 

Disclaimer:

Trying to inject some humor into this thread:

 

"Oh-I am so sorry Mr. and Mrs Smith. We seem to have an hour and 1/2 wait for a table here at the American Icon Grill. But-as luck will have it my trusty computer tells me that you can be seated immediately at either Chops, Sabor or Izumi. Would you like me to call and tell then you are on your way so they can have your table ready"??? :D:p

[LetsGetWet!]

Disclaimer:

Trying to inject some humor into this thread:

 

"Oh-I am so sorry Mr. and Mrs Smith. We seem to have an hour and 1/2 wait for a table here at the American Icon Grill. But-as luck will have it my trusty computer tells me that you can be seated immediately at either Chops, Sabor or Izumi. Would you like me to call and tell then you are on your way so they can have your table ready"??? :D:p

Continuing with the humor, let me fix that for you:

 

"Oh-I am so sorry Mr. and Mrs Smith. We seem to have an hour and 1/2 wait for a table here at the American Icon Grill. But-as luck will have it my trusty computer tells me that you can be seated immediately at either Chops, Sabor or Izumi. Would you like me to call and tell then you are on your way so they can have your table ready"??? Please just make sure that you have your SeaPass with you so that we can ding it for the $50 to $70 extra that dinner is going to cost you tonight!" :D

[Debde]

Continuing with the humor, let me fix that for you:

 

"Oh-I am so sorry Mr. and Mrs Smith. We seem to have an hour and 1/2 wait for a table here at the American Icon Grill. But-as luck will have it my trusty computer tells me that you can be seated immediately at either Chops, Sabor or Izumi. Would you like me to call and tell then you are on your way so they can have your table ready"??? Please just make sure that you have your SeaPass with you so that we can ding it for the $50 to $70 extra that dinner is going to cost you tonight!" :D

 

:D And there it is folks...........

[Ourusualbeach]

Continuing with the humor, let me fix that for you:

 

"Oh-I am so sorry Mr. and Mrs Smith. We seem to have an hour and 1/2 wait for a table here at the American Icon Grill. But-as luck will have it my trusty computer tells me that you can be seated immediately at either Chops, Sabor or Izumi. Would you like me to call and tell then you are on your way so they can have your table ready"??? Please just make sure that you have your SeaPass with you so that we can ding it for the $50 to $70 extra that dinner is going to cost you tonight!" :D

 

And even that will not fix the problem as there are not enough seats in all the specialty restaurants combined to handle the excess people that can't fit in the free dining venues.

[firts]

NCL has a variety of restaurants similar to the dynamic dining choices BUT they also maintained a main dining room that has a rotating menu . Granted, it is not an early / late seating style but it is what we know as My Time Dining., come when you want, same wait staff, and a 7 day rotating menu.

[lisiamc]

I don't know the capacity of each restaurant, but I wonder if they could have one or two MTD restaurants and two traditional. Princess ended up having to do that on Diamond and Sapphire Princess - they originally had one traditional dining room and four themed Any Time restaurants. It was a nightmare trying to get dinner even with a reservation - our party of 7 had to sit at separate tables, we were seated late and they ended up only allowing people to make reservations for 6:00 or 8:30. They ultimately threw in the towel on that concept and now have four Anytime Dining restaurants (one is reserved for early traditional until 7:00 or so). Each offers a special dish for the theme of its name - Mexican, Italian or Asian (the fourth was a steakhouse, so no special item there).

 

It likely wasn't as embarrassing for Princess to make the change because they didn't tout the concept the way RCI has touted DD.

 

Time will tell...

 

This seems like it would combine all the best bits of traditional dining, MTD and Dynamic Dining. It sounds like a good way to please most passengers. Maybe Royal could go in this direction.

[Realtor at Sea]

Just disembarked the Quantum on the 3rd, the New Years Eve cruise for which we paid PREMIUM holiday prices, and, unfortunately have another cruise booked on Feb. 2nd. Dynamic Dining is NOT ready for PRIME time!!! Long lines to enter the restaurants even though one has reservations, food always luke warm, never piping hot, ice cream always mushy and mostly melted, bread, but no butter, no refills for water unless you asked multiple times. None of the food was of excellent quality. Waiters over-worked with no one to pitch in an help. Where are the assistant waiters and head waiters? I will never again book a ship with Dynamic Dining. Stay away from this concept!!! You will be very, very disappointed!!!