The NCL-FDR Purge continues......

[njhorseman]

In my previous post, I neglected to show that Genting AND ITS PARTNER TPG sold 6.250,000 shares of the stock. Per the article in Seatrade Insider.

 

This contradicts the statement that TPG was Apollo's partner.

 

It does not contradict anything. Here's a brief summary of their corporate history:

 

Apollo, Genting and TPG were all partners. Prior to NCL's original public offering they together owned 100% of the stock. TPG indeed was and is Apollo's partner, as it was Apollo that brought TPG into the company. Shortly after Apollo acquired 50% of NCL, they sold 12.5% (IIRC) to TPG, so the ownership split was 50% Genting, 37.5% Apollo and 12.5% TPG...but Apollo controlled the board. Since NCL went public, those three partners have sold various percentages of their holdings, and most recently Genting appears getting out altogether because they needed capital to finance their other businesses, and most important their purchase of Crystal, a direct competitor of Regent's in the luxury market.

 

The reason that the article says "TPG and its partner Genting" is because they were the parties selling NCLH stock in that transaction. If Apollo also sold stock in that transaction, it would have said something like "partners TPG, Genting and Apollo".

 

The company is still closely held, and its by-laws make it virtually impossible for an outsider to gain control of the company by limiting the amount of stock that can be purchased by other than an insider, as well as giving the board of directors (still controlled by Apollo) the right to approve all new directors.

[Carnac767]

As customers, it's pointless to speculate about the corporate changes at this point. If the product remains the same, we'll continue to cruise. If it changes for the worst, we'll take our business elsewhere. It's not as if anyone is holding a gun to my head to cruise on NCL. I've really enjoyed my cruises with them and hope this continues. If not, there is no lack of other vacation options. I'm not running for the lifeboat yet.

 

Now, as a shareholder, I'm very interested in what's happening, but that's a different story.

[swedish weave]

These figures are from SEC filings. Are these by the same people who are now in conrtol of NCL ?

 

 

Prestige Cruises International, Inc. and Subsidiaries

 

Consolidated Statements of Comprehensive Loss

 

Years Ended December 31, 2012, 2011 and 2010

 

(in thousands) 2012 2011 2010

Net loss

$ (2,612 ) $ (69,772 ) $ (62,120 )

Other comprehensive income (loss)

 

(Loss) gain on change in derivative fair value

(4,600 ) 33,980 (14,705 )

Cash flow hedge reclassified into earnings

1,561 1,110 —

 

 

 

 

 

Total comprehensive loss

$ (5,651 ) $ (34,682 ) $ (76,825 )

 

I am posting this not to start arguments. I am concerned for the future of NCL.

Edited March 25, 2015 by swedish weave

[Out to sea!]

I don't see it the way you do.

 

When Sheehan took over a money hemorraging company from Vietch, he presented his ideas to top level management, took them into the team and successfully turned the company around.

 

Now, Del Rio takes over and comes in with his machete swinging and eliminates the long term employees-and--replaces them with his friends and family.

 

the companies may operate separately in name only, but the managers who control all three companies will implement their ideas into all three.

 

I hope NCL can survive this upheaval !!

 

If not ----- Last one out be sure to turn out the lights !!

 

And people here said Sheehan was the penny pincher! :D

[Buford T Justiice]

When NCL starts cutting bar servers (which I think they will, to limit UBP), then it will be time to panic.

[emcelh]

Just heard on the news that Heinz and Kraft are merging. What will happen to the ketchup.

[Cruisercl]

When companies 'merge' and there are layoffs it is very often a cut back on resources and people are expected to do twice as much work for the same compensation. It is referred to as a 'lean' company with 'lean' SOPs; it helps corporations pretend they are being efficient because the affects do not show up for a couple of years. AND the people that implemented the 'lean' processes are long gone.......

 

That said, I work in an extremely government regulated industry and any time there are cutbacks on oversight there are problems which will eventually affect the customers. There are tons of regulations that affect things that go on in the background of cruise line companies that are the reason you have a nice time and are safe on your cruise and that there is good company face to the customer.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that one person can have the oversight of 2-3 people when an industry is highly regulated. Unfortunately, most regulations are in place because there was shoddy work and someone was hurt or worse. I have seen all of these things happen.

 

IMO this is corporate greed showing it's awful face.

 

Happy to give some examples if needed; I am sure you could too.

 

Happy and safe cruising all!! :)

[SissasMomE]

Just heard on the news that Heinz and Kraft are merging. What will happen to the ketchup.

 

Would you please leave the ketchup out of this?? :p

[jertom]

Just heard on the news that Heinz and Kraft are merging. What will happen to the ketchup.

 

Well said !!

[maywell]

Just heard on the news that Heinz and Kraft are merging. What will happen to the ketchup.

 

Gotta ask Grey Poupon, the Miracle Whip and the cheese for that....

Edited March 26, 2015 by maywell

[hondorner]

I'm trying to figure out what some posters expect to gain by being so negative about the new management. Perhaps they are hoping to chase away prospective guests so their predictions of doom will be self-fulfilling?

[NLH Arizona]

I'm trying to figure out what some posters expect to gain by being so negative about the new management. Perhaps they are hoping to chase away prospective guests so their predictions of doom will be self-fulfilling?

You never know what will happen to a company after they get new management and has had layoffs, I think it is best to wait and see what happens. I've seen it happen to companies and they come out leaner and meaner than before, so new management is not always a negative, it can be a positive as well.

[don't-use-real-name]

This all happening around the "Ides of March" !

"Et Brute" this is not some Roman (ah Hollywood) sitcom ne Love Boat Cruise !

It is unfortunate that some senior characters get written out of the script when

normal attrition or early retirement is a solution although not mentioned ?

I do wonder if NCL is practicing the "Peter Principle" !

 

Let us all hope that NCL is not shooting themselves in the foot dancing with

the newfound corporate management team.

I would like to return to take many more voyages unspoiled by greed and

petty penny pinching operating policies !

 

In other words if it is not broken do not try to fix or change it and leave well

enough alone !

 

Cliches aside I still like NCL and wish them the best.

[hypercafe]

The last interview I read from NCL new management said they expected to save around 40 mill by combining the three company's and I believe 50 mill next year. Part of that comes from combining redundant jobs at the new home office. Would you rather see a large, high paid, corporate staff stay while the food got even worse in the MDR or even more cabins are added to the ships?

[fishin' musician]

I personally have zero brand loyalty and have sailed most mainstream lines (not MSC). Ten years ago NCL on the other boards was often referred to as the Walmart of cruise lines. They have rallied over the last ten years and you now hear a lot of positive things about NCL on the other boards. I've enjoyed several NCL cruises with hopes for several more, I just hope they don't slip backwards.

[SJ]

I personally have zero brand loyalty and have sailed most mainstream lines (not MSC). Ten years ago NCL on the other boards was often referred to as the Walmart of cruise lines. They have rallied over the last ten years and you now hear a lot of positive things about NCL on the other boards. I've enjoyed several NCL cruises with hopes for several more' date=' I just hope they don't slip backwards.[/quote']

 

You mean the way Carnival slipped under their CEO who is also a CPA and had to bring back his predecessor to save the brand name? I hope not.

 

I used to praise the value of a cruise to anyone who would listen. I can no longer do that because you really need to be informed to avoid extra fees. That ticket price includes less and less now and the experience is quite different from 20 years ago. I still cruise because I know what a cruise is worth nowadays and pay accordingly. I think many who are not informed probably overpaid for their vacation. Just my opinion...

[NLH Arizona]

You mean the way Carnival slipped under their CEO who is also a CPA and had to bring back his predecessor to save the brand name? I hope not.

 

I used to praise the value of a cruise to anyone who would listen. I can no longer do that because you really need to be informed to avoid extra fees. That ticket price includes less and less now and the experience is quite different from 20 years ago. I still cruise because I know what a cruise is worth nowadays and pay accordingly. I think many who are not informed probably overpaid for their vacation. Just my opinion...

The experience is different on every cruise line. I also cruise Celebrity and a lot complain that they want the good old days back, but what they don't realize is that if they get them back, their base fare to cruise will be substantially more than what it is today.

 

On Celebrity, I know the items are no long included in the base fare or have been lessened, but since I've only been cruising with NCL for a couple of years, what are the things that are gone or lessened on NCL?

[ColinIllinois]

Just heard on the news that Heinz and Kraft are merging. What will happen to the ketchup.

 

 

I smuggle my own ketchup on board in one of those RumRunner things. I hide it in the George Foreman grill in my suitcase.

[Jancruz]

Pretty sure they'll do both -- cut staff at home office and on board ship, add more cabins, crappy up the food. Whatever makes more money in the short run, then it's into the golden parachutes and awaaaaaay we go!

 

Believe me when I tell you, I know FDR very well and for sure he will improve the food..that is his forte..

Jancruz1

[backsbanny]

He might improve the food on the long run but until then with all the latest changes i dont know who is going to be on his ships to eat that fdr must understand the difference between mass market cruise lines and luxury lines.i see prices for 2016 on some itineraries are actually more than celebrity prices...and at this time there is no way a foodie can choose ncl over celebrity for the same price

Edited March 26, 2015 by backsbanny

[sfaaa]

NCL jacks up the 2016 cruise price so it will look like a good deal when the price is reduced through a future sale or promo. It's just a marketing thing. No experienced cruiser ever pays retail on his cruise.

[SJ]

The experience is different on every cruise line. I also cruise Celebrity and a lot complain that they want the good old days back, but what they don't realize is that if they get them back, their base fare to cruise will be substantially more than what it is today.

 

On Celebrity, I know the items are no long included in the base fare or have been lessened, but since I've only been cruising with NCL for a couple of years, what are the things that are gone or lessened on NCL?

 

I don't know how long you have been cruising, my first was on the NCL Dreamward in 1995. I was in an inside cabin to Bermuda. Several features of a typical cruise are gone now. Just because some don't care for them or don't miss them doesn't take away from the fact the cruise vacation has less to offer now.

 

Just to give a few examples of we used to get with our base fare. An NCL mug that they sell for $10 now was waiting for me upon embarkation as an welcome gift. Waiters would line up at the end of the buffet line to help carry your tray to an unoccupied table. We don't even have trays at buffet now. There were the midnight buffets, not to mention the Gala buffet with works of art made with food. Feast for the eyes for sure. Every evening there is a different show in the theater; this is no loner true on the mega ships. Providing a different show every evening is no longer an objective as the theater can no longer accommodate all who wants to see it. The latest takeaway is the lobster from the MDR which has always been identified as part of the cruise experience.

 

I paid $1000pp for that week but not once did I feel I overpaid for my vacation. It was everything I imagined when I decided my first vacation after getting a job would be a cruise because of the Love Boat.

 

NCL and all the other cruiselines should realize to get more revenue, the answer isn't to add fees I can pay for after boarding or after purchasing onboard goods or services. When a company provide a good product we will pay. We will remember how the cruise made us feel not how much we spend. Word of mouth advertisement is also priceless. What is happening this month is penny wise pound foolish. The bottom line will look good at least in the short run, we won't know the long term affect for at least a year or two. If these don't pan out for NCL as predicted, it would cost a lot more to rebuild what NCL has worked so hard to build under Sheehan.

Edited March 26, 2015 by SJ

[hawkeyetlse]

I don't know how long you have been cruising, my first was on the NCL Dreamward in 1995. I was in an inside cabin to Bermuda. Several features of a typical cruise are gone now. Just because some don't care for them or don't miss them doesn't take away from the fact the cruise vacation has less to offer now.

 

Just to give a few examples of we used to get with our base fare. An NCL mug that they sell for $10 now was waiting for me upon embarkation as an welcome gift. Waiters would line up at the end of the buffet line to help carry your tray to an unoccupied table. We don't even have trays at buffet now. There were the midnight buffets, not to mention the Gala buffet with works of art made with food. Feast for the eyes for sure. Every evening there is a different show in the theater; this is no loner true on the mega ships. Providing a different show every evening is no longer an objective as the theater can no longer accommodate all who wants to see it. The latest takeaway is the lobster from the MDR which has always been identified as part of the cruise experience.

 

I paid $1000pp for that week but not once did I feel I overpaid for my vacation.

$1000 in 1995 dollars would be about $1500 today (according to this inflation calculator). You didn't say how many days that cruise was, but an inside cabin on the Breakaway (7 day to Bermuda) for this summer is going for about half that. With what you are saving, you can buy a lot of logo mugs and lobster tails… And maybe there are one or two things on the Breakaway that weren't available on Dreamward.

 

Because of this huge price difference, you simply can't compare NCL in 2015 with NCL in 1995. Today's NCL and other mass market cruise lines have changed a lot (for better and for worse) in 20 years, and if you want the product that you enjoyed in 1995, you'll have to look for it on some another line (that costs twice as much as NCL).

[fishin' musician]

NCL and all the other cruiselines should realize to get more revenue, the answer isn't to add fees I can pay for after boarding or after purchasing onboard goods or services. When a company provide a good product we will pay. We will remember how the cruise made us feel not how much we spend. Word of mouth advertisement is also priceless. What is happening this month is penny wise pound foolish. The bottom line will look good at least in the short run, we won't know the long term affect for at least a year or two. If these don't pan out for NCL as predicted, it would cost a lot more to rebuild what NCL has worked so hard to build under Sheehan.

 

My sentiments exactly. Very well stated.

[NLH Arizona]

I don't know how long you have been cruising, my first was on the NCL Dreamward in 1995. I was in an inside cabin to Bermuda. Several features of a typical cruise are gone now. Just because some don't care for them or don't miss them doesn't take away from the fact the cruise vacation has less to offer now.

 

Just to give a few examples of we used to get with our base fare. An NCL mug that they sell for $10 now was waiting for me upon embarkation as an welcome gift. Waiters would line up at the end of the buffet line to help carry your tray to an unoccupied table. We don't even have trays at buffet now. There were the midnight buffets, not to mention the Gala buffet with works of art made with food. Feast for the eyes for sure. Every evening there is a different show in the theater; this is no loner true on the mega ships. Providing a different show every evening is no longer an objective as the theater can no longer accommodate all who wants to see it. The latest takeaway is the lobster from the MDR which has always been identified as part of the cruise experience.

 

I paid $1000pp for that week but not once did I feel I overpaid for my vacation. It was everything I imagined when I decided my first vacation after getting a job would be a cruise because of the Love Boat.

 

NCL and all the other cruiselines should realize to get more revenue, the answer isn't to add fees I can pay for after boarding or after purchasing onboard goods or services. When a company provide a good product we will pay. We will remember how the cruise made us feel not how much we spend. Word of mouth advertisement is also priceless. What is happening this month is penny wise pound foolish. The bottom line will look good at least in the short run, we won't know the long term affect for at least a year or two. If these don't pan out for NCL as predicted, it would cost a lot more to rebuild what NCL has worked so hard to build under Sheehan.

Cruise lines of today are nothing like they were in the 90's, I started cruising before your first cruise. When I found Celebrity (I still cruise with them), the waiters served with white gloves, they had fine china in the dining room, they escorted every passenger to their cabin upon embarkation...those went by the wayside some time back. Just about ever other cruise lines threads, there are people are complaining about things that were there in the old days and how much they miss them. Well I certainly don't miss the cost of the cruises back then.

 

On NCL, I noticed servers helping people with their food in the buffet to their tables, it seems like if you ask, they will accommodate you. I don't know of one line that still has the midnight buffet. They were nice but poorly attended and a huge waste of food, since it can not be reused once it is out. Celebrity stopped their Gala buffet which they had in the dining room, as have other lines.

 

I personally, don't want NCL to have all the bells and whistles which would raise their base fare, many prefer to be able to choose what we want to pay for over and above the base fare. I don't need another mug, just as with Celebrity, I could do with another bag, I would rather they not give these items away and put that money into the things that everyone uses, like food and entertainment (even though I don't attended any of the shows).

 

No one on here knows if the changes are for the good or bad, for all we know, it could be a genius move that makes NCL a whole lot of money or it could be the worse move that will cost them dearly. We will all have to wait and see, but for sure many of us will totally disagree if they are making a wise choice or not. I could easily surmise about the changes and what the outcome will be, but I prefer to take a wait and see attitude, because unless I have a crystal ball, I've got no idea what the outcome will be.

Edited March 27, 2015 by NLH Arizona