Disapointted

[iancal]

I agree. Just about every cruise we have taken has been excellent value for money. We now base our expectations on price paid since experience has shown us that we cannot necessarily depend on the past reputation or satisfaction with a given cruise line/ship.

 

In our world cruise lines very much compete, and often complement, our other travel expenditures such as independent travel and all inclusives. For us, this means that levels of service and things like food quality, entertainment, etc. have gone downhill simply because pricing has been fairly constant over 5 or 10 years due to competition.

 

Another issue is personnel. Having worked in some very large customer service organizations I believe that 99,9 percent of employees want to do an excellent job and are proud of their work. The problem starts when employees no longer feel, for whatever reason beyond their control, that they can deliver to this level and their sense of pride diminishes. This change in employee morale simply made the cuts, from a customer service perspective, even worse.

 

Both organizations that I worked for measured the heck out of customer satisfaction. Over time, both organizations accepted lower customer sat ratings and lowered the bar so to speak because of the cuts that they felt were needed to remain competitive. They accepted this trade off. I see this in spades on the cruise lines that we have been on. HAL is no different than the others in the mass market segment. It is simply a P&L bottom line issue for them. The new motto is sell more, spend less.

Edited May 24, 2015 by iancal

[sammiedawg]

We sail multiple lines and feel HAL has declined the most. Service levels are drastically cut. Rooms may not be made up for the day until mid afternoon. Staffing levels in the Lido are at Rock bottom. Staffing levels in the main dining room are really strained unless you arrive shortly after the dining room opens. Food quality and quantity pale in comparison to what they served ten or fifteen years ago. We haven't had port lecturers of any kind in a while. No expert lecturers on board.

Then there is the huge issue of ship maintenance.

HAL has become a value line and pricing is very important. Don't overpay for this cruise line.

[Topsham]

Thanks Copper. Now that would be a disappointing cruise.;)

 

 

 

No HSC for the Chief Engineer. Mind.... it did make the cabin quieter.

[Randyk47]

We very much buy into cruising as the best value vacation option for the money. We've traveled on our own and we've tried resorts. Those were all fine but using a cruise ship as basically a floating hotel really works best for us. That said even though we are destination cruises.....we use a ship to get us places we want to visit....we still like and appreciate good service, food, entertainment, and accommodations. Going back to 1995 HAL was all of that and more and stayed that way for maybe ten or more years. I'm not going to go back and recount each and every step of the degradation we perceive, suffice to say for us about the only thing that HAL still truly excels at are great cabins. I think in the past I've said before our dissatisfaction with HAL in no way means I think cruising on HAL is now a horrible experience, that's just not true. What is true for us is that HAL no longer meets our expectations. That's not bad, things change, we change, but thank goodness there are options.

[GlennG]

I wanted to take this opportunity to extend thanks to weluvcrusin. As an experienced "cruiser," you have expressed your disappointment in Holland America Line. Your comments are useful for me as I plan future vacations and cruises. This may not be the forum for articulating your observations and concerns. The regulars (HAL cheerleaders) have subjected you to the usual cross-examination. You have been quite clear in your comments. You have stressed that HAL has gone downhill. You have specific examples for your disappointment, including unsatisfactory cleaning of your room, unsatisfactory meals in the MDR, unsatisfactory food, poor lectures, and overpriced tours. I value your comments as it lends some balance and credibility to this forum. To be quite frank, there are too many regulars who just cannot accept that some people experience "bad things" on Holland America cruises. I admire your honesty and courage in posting your comments. Good luck on future cruising!

[sppunk]

What's interesting is every post in this thread, you can replace HAL with every other cruise line, and it still would be accurate.

 

Every line has slipped. Every hotel, too, save for a few extremely high end chains (way above Four Seasons level). Every airline (except Ethiad I guess) too.

[janmcn]

If you lurk on some of the other lines you will find similar complaints.

 

All I can say is that I've had good, better, best cruises on HAL ships. I find food and service changes with crew/ship.

We rarely go to the MDR due to slow service, but on the Westerdam we were with friends who always ate there so we joined them several times and found service to be very good. IMO the food at dinner in the Lido is often better than MDR...fresher, similar menu, get what you SEE is good, etc.

On the following cruise on the Veendam we tried the MDR and found service too slow, so we are back to Lido for most dinners.

Shall see how the Veendam does on the V of V since we're on with the same friends.

[idiebabe]

We sail multiple lines and feel HAL has declined the most. Service levels are drastically cut. Rooms may not be made up for the day until mid afternoon. Staffing levels in the Lido are at Rock bottom. Staffing levels in the main dining room are really strained unless you arrive shortly after the dining room opens. Food quality and quantity pale in comparison to what they served ten or fifteen years ago. We haven't had port lecturers of any kind in a while. No expert lecturers on board.

Then there is the huge issue of ship maintenance.

HAL has become a value line and pricing is very important. Don't overpay for this cruise line.

 

Food quality and portions cannot compare to what they served 15 years ago unless as OP pointed out the price of the Cruises rose along with the inflation. This is true on any line and also true for land-based restaurants. When you go to your local grocery store what do you pay for a jar of Mayo, a box of tea bags, butter, milk, etc. compared to 15 years ago? I remember when a jar of Mayo was $.99 and not all that long ago and now it's as high as $5.99., etc. Cruise Lines are affected by the rising cost of product, too!

 

In April while on the 14 Night Nieuw Amsterdam TA we did have a Port Lecturer who was very good! We also had outstanding Service in all areas on the Ship in Lido, the MDR, our Room Attendants, Bar Servers, etc. In fact, on our last seven cruises in the past year and half on seven different HAL Ships we've had outstanding, friendly Service on all of them.

 

We're not happy with some of the cutbacks in Entertainment and this we found to be true on other lines as well and it is something all the Cruise Lines need to be careful with when making their decisions on what changes they are making.

 

I'm really curious though as to what other Cruise Lines you sail where you haven't seen them decline as much as you feel HAL has and could you please be more specific as to why? Also, which line is now your Cruise Line of choice?

[Randyk47]

What's interesting is every post in this thread, you can replace HAL with every other cruise line, and it still would be accurate.

 

Every line has slipped. Every hotel, too, save for a few extremely high end chains (way above Four Seasons level). Every airline (except Ethiad I guess) too.

 

Spot on. The question then becomes what do we individually do about it? I won't even try to state all the options. We're trying other cruise lines, airlines, and hotels. A friend and his wife, a past CC'er, has gone as far as giving up cruising.

[Jade13]

What's interesting is every post in this thread, you can replace HAL with every other cruise line, and it still would be accurate.

 

Every line has slipped. Every hotel, too, save for a few extremely high end chains (way above Four Seasons level). Every airline (except Ethiad I guess) too.

 

I do not think that is true at all.

[SilvertoGold]

Could some one explain the math here?

 

HAL used to assign one cabin steward to 15 cabins, approximately

 

Now the assign two cabin stewards to 30 cabins, approximately.

 

Why does this mean they are overworked?

We have not found any problem with the 2/30 arrangement. Virtually always as good, as fast service, as before with the 1/15. Dividing up tasks and working together on some of them seem to make the whole process work very well.

[cruz chic]

Could some one explain the math here?

 

HAL used to assign one cabin steward to 15 cabins, approximately

 

Now the assign two cabin stewards to 30 cabins, approximately.

 

Why does this mean they are overworked?

We have not found any problem with the 2/30 arrangement. Virtually always as good, as fast service, as before with the 1/15. Dividing up tasks and working together on some of them seem to make the whole process work very well.

 

I agree. I'm out of my cabin pretty early and make that known to my cabin stewards. Generally speaking it's done within a couple of hours if not sooner. If you are in your cabin until 11 am it's pretty hard for them to make it up until the afternoon.

[sppunk]

I do not think that is true at all.

 

Browse every other forum here, you'll find identical threads. Even Crystal guests complain about them charging for restaurants, etc.

 

The industry has changed much more than the line. Except NCL and now RCCL, which charge for nearly everything.

 

We stay at hotels often, usually Sofitels or Hiltons. They have all had staff reductions, cutbacks in toiletries, etc.

[Jade13]

We were on the Maasdam, the cruise before yours. We were in code red 13 of the 15 days and MANY passengers got sick (both during the cruise and the next couple of days afterwards). You are very lucky that on your cruise only a few people came down with it (and of course very lucky that you did not get it).

 

While I was also disappointed with the service and a few missing "extras" (such as a special formal night), I understood why. The crew had to do considerable extra cleaning plus cover for other crew members who were sick and confined to their cabins. I am certain that this contributed to lower service levels than we normally experienced and a few things not being done as usual. Please give HAL and its crew the benefit of the doubt in this type of situation. In fact, I felt that they did a great job considering everything.

 

We understood why the chairs were not covered on the first formal night, but did you have Officers welcoming you onboard, Royal Dutch Tea, an Indonesian or Filipino crew show, ice carver, port lecturer, Captain's Toast, room cleaned before 12:30pm, someone in the lido with a cart serving drinks, visible Lido Manager, visible Captain or Hotel Manager, crew farewell either in the show room, MDR, or disembarkation talk....the entertainment one night was a movie in the show room which saves the company additional entertainment cost. The dining is now a 3 course menu (but of course one can order both an appetizer and soup, etc.)

[Jade13]

I agree. I'm out of my cabin pretty early and make that known to my cabin stewards. Generally speaking it's done within a couple of hours if not sooner. If you are in your cabin until 11 am it's pretty hard for them to make it up until the afternoon.

 

My DH was out by 5:00AM and I was out by 6:45AM.

 

They wouldn't clean any earlier as they had some specific order so our cabin was not cleaned until the afternoon.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Jade13

[cruisin'girl]

Could some one explain the math here?

 

HAL used to assign one cabin steward to 15 cabins, approximately

 

Now the assign two cabin stewards to 30 cabins, approximately.

 

Why does this mean they are overworked?

We have not found any problem with the 2/30 arrangement. Virtually always as good, as fast service, as before with the 1/15. Dividing up tasks and working together on some of them seem to make the whole process work very well.

I don't believe one room steward had anywhere near 15 cabins when we started cruising HAL early 2000s.

[RuthC]

Could some one explain the math here?

 

HAL used to assign one cabin steward to 15 cabins, approximately

 

Now the assign two cabin stewards to 30 cabins, approximately.

 

Why does this mean they are overworked?

We have not found any problem with the 2/30 arrangement. Virtually always as good, as fast service, as before with the 1/15. Dividing up tasks and working together on some of them seem to make the whole process work very well.

If you go back a lot further, the cabin stewards did have fewer cabins to service. I remember when it was 12 cabins for one steward.

Then, 9/11 happened, and passengers canceled cruises en mass so as to avoid flying. Stewards went on planned leave, but were not replaced---which kept the workload essentially where it had been.

When the passengers started coming back, there were too few stewards for a while, as it took time for them to be rehired, or new ones to be trained. The cabin load got as high as 18 per steward, to my knowledge.

Over time it dropped back to the 15 per steward level---lower than the immediate past, but higher than it had been a year or two before. Then, it was switched to the 30 cabins for 2 stewards ratio.

 

Now is 15 cabins for one steward too many? Is it a significant increase in workload, as compared to the 12 previously assigned?

Never having done the job, I wouldn't know. I do agree that being able to share the work makes it easier, and should cut down on the time required to service a cabin. I have also had stewards who are right there to clean when I leave the cabin in the morning, find time to chat a little, and manage to open my door for me if they see me returning. That is the more experienced stewards, I've found. They've found ways to save a few seconds here and there, and it adds up.

 

I also note that the evening turndown service isn't as extensive as it once was. The bedding itself isn't turned down as far, towels and toiletries aren't replaced routinely (not a bad thing, imo), and a few other little things are no longer done.

Edited May 24, 2015 by RuthC

[cruz chic]

We understood why the chairs were not covered on the first formal night, but did you have Officers welcoming you onboard, Royal Dutch Tea, an Indonesian or Filipino crew show, ice carver, port lecturer, Captain's Toast, room cleaned before 12:30pm, someone in the lido with a cart serving drinks, visible Lido Manager, visible Captain or Hotel Manager, crew farewell either in the show room, MDR, or disembarkation talk....the entertainment one night was a movie in the show room which saves the company additional entertainment cost. The dining is now a 3 course menu (but of course one can order both an appetizer and soup, etc.)

 

I have to say no to many of these and my cruise was not in code red. Earlier you mentioned losing a whole day of your cruise, yet you boarded at 4. My calculation makes it 4.5 hours lost not 24. While no one likes losing time but stuff happens. Maybe many of the things you listed are the new normal.

[cruz chic]

My DH was out by 5:00AM and I was out by 6:45AM.

 

They wouldn't clean any earlier as they had some specific order so our cabin was not cleaned until the afternoon.

 

I don't think the stewards start cleaning cabins until 8 so at the very minimum it won't be done until then. I've found I need to mention to them I like my cabin cleaned early. Putting out my service tag doesn't do it. Did you speak to them about your preference?

[Tampa Girl]

I The regulars (HAL cheerleaders) have subjected you to the usual cross-examination. You have been quite clear in your comments. You have stressed that HAL has gone downhill. You have specific examples for your disappointment, including unsatisfactory cleaning of your room, unsatisfactory meals in the MDR, unsatisfactory food, poor lectures, and overpriced tours. /QUOTE]

 

 

First, it is easy to be a "cheerleader" when an OP comes on with a poor attitude, if not actually rude, toward other posters; and refuses to give the specific instances despite many requests. The criticisms referred to in the quote are generalities, not specifics.

 

If you want a good idea of a particularl ship or itinerary, you need to read both pro and con reviews. HAL may be slipping, but we had an excellent cruise on the Zuideram Panama canal in March. It had the best food I have every had in my eight HAL cruises since 2005. I'm sorry the OP had such a disappointing experience, but her generalities do not discourage this cruiser, at least.

[Jade13]

Well Ruth C. I think I have told you enough. PURE AND SIMPLE HAL S SERVICE IS GOING DOWNHILL. If I said the freeway was busy I'm sure you would want to know how many cars were on the highway LOL

 

Hi weluvcruisin,

 

I agree with you, but you might get more sympathy or interest if you did provide a few more specific examples of what service was downhill on your specific cruise.

 

I forgot to mention on our cruise that the "Yum Yum" man was out of ginger the entire cruise. Now that is someone that was special to HAL to greet you on the way out of the dining room with treats. The only one I wanted was the ginger. At first I was told there was no ginger because of code red, and later told they simply were out of ginger.

[Jade13]

I have to say no to many of these and my cruise was not in code red. Earlier you mentioned losing a whole day of your cruise, yet you boarded at 4. My calculation makes it 4.5 hours lost not 24. While no one likes losing time but stuff happens. Maybe many of the things you listed are the new normal.

 

Fair enough, but we used to board by 11:00-11:30AM the first day, and we lost the day part of "Day 1". There was always a lot of excitement to board that first day and go to the Lido for lunch.

 

I did not mention that we boarded earlier than a lot of others because we checked in earlier and went back into town, so that when we came back we did not have to wait to check-in. The rooms were still not ready at that time.

[DaveOKC]

We understood why the chairs were not covered on the first formal night, but did you have Officers welcoming you onboard, Royal Dutch Tea, an Indonesian or Filipino crew show, ice carver, port lecturer, Captain's Toast, room cleaned before 12:30pm, someone in the lido with a cart serving drinks, visible Lido Manager, visible Captain or Hotel Manager, crew farewell either in the show room, MDR, or disembarkation talk....the entertainment one night was a movie in the show room which saves the company additional entertainment cost. The dining is now a 3 course menu (but of course one can order both an appetizer and soup, etc.)

 

Since so many of the crew were sick and/or very busy cleaning, I expected the crew show and/or farewell to be cancelled. While we did not see a lido beverage cart, there were servers around getting you drinks (we used this several times). There was a Captain's toast, but we did not attend. The disembarkation talk no longer exists on any HAL ships (and I am glad it does not) - instead you watch instructions on your TV. We did have a champagne toast from the Captain one night at dinner (due to code red ending).

 

I am not trying to be a HAL "cheerleader", but I am merely pointing out that code red does change things onboard and that we should take this into consideration. As a LONG time frequent traveler, I have learned to "roll with the punches".

Edited May 24, 2015 by DaveOKC

[summer slope]

I think a good part of the "bad" cruise some have had began with the entitled passenger who felt they did not need to report their illness as to not ruin their cruise. No regard for their fellow passengers. And it snowballed from there.

Edited May 24, 2015 by dixiefinn

[Watson's aunt]

Hi

 

I trally do not need my cabin serviced. I usually tell the syewards not to bother. Just make sure I get a towel animal. I do not need my rugs vacumn I do not make a mess. bathroom the same I can use the same towel I do it at home.

 

Mary