Tips removed while onboard

[TommyD3]

I have been on over 100 cruises (100+ on Celebrity, 5-6 each on RCL, Holland & NCL).

 

Only once did I ever reduce the tips.

 

On NCL one time - the last time I sailed on them (out of 5 NCL cruises).

 

When the cabin steward cannot even supply toilet paper and one has to steal it from the public rest room they dont deserve the full gratuity.

 

They have anytime dining. We dine early. Set the room indicator to "Make Up Room". Every night it was after 9 PM before the room was made up.

 

We brought up the problems numerous times to no avail.

 

Never a problem with over 100 cruises on Celebrity !!!

[wwcruisers]

I'm wondering how long it will take to trickle down to Celebrity.

 

 

Although there are certainly trends among the mainstream cruises, I don't necessarily think that any particular policy implemented by NCL will be "trickling down" to Celebrity. For one thing, NCL has a totally different demographic than X. Now, if it were RC, I could see the possibility -- as both lines are owned by the same company.

[DYKWIA]

Could allowing people to email AFTER they have left the ship and get their tips back not result in more people trying it?

 

Some people who were perhaps minded to remove tips for whatever reason but perhaps were embarrassed to do so on the ship, might think otherwise X hundred miles away from the ship.

[AmazedByCruising]

9:54 a.m. EDT) --- Norwegian Cruise Line passengers will no longer be able to remove or change the daily service charge (DSC) added to shipboard accounts while still onboard.

 

Isn't that's the exact opposite of the policy X currently uses: a 72 hour deadline before leaving the ship?

[AmazedByCruising]

Could allowing people to email AFTER they have left the ship and get their tips back not result in more people trying it?

 

Some people who were perhaps minded to remove tips for whatever reason but perhaps were embarrassed to do so on the ship, might think otherwise X hundred miles away from the ship.

 

They can't really tell the crew weeks after they got their paycheck that they'll have to pay some of it back can they? I may be a bit too imaginative here, but the next step is that NCL will have to guarantee 90% or so. (I read somewhere that cruiselines alread chip in for cruises where gratuities are removed a lot more than usual). Then the next step would that there is no moral obligation to pay gratuities anymore, because you wouldn't hurt the crew but just the billion dollar line. And then the line would need to raise the fare to pay the full salary.

 

I can't say I would mind that scenario.

[purpletequila]

Cheapskates??

 

I withdrew the standard tip on a recent cruise due to horrible service. All I asked is that the restaurant where the horrible service occurred would not receive the tip and even asked that they reassign that tip to the cabin stewards. It was a point of principle. We were told no and we had to withdraw all - we did this but tipped individually the appropriate people as advised by guest relations and indeed to excess in the case of the fantastic cabin stewards - I could not even differentiate between their grades.

 

The staff should be properly paid. The US model of rewarding service industry staff has an agenda to take the employer off the hook for paying staff. When will the service charge for alcohol reach 25%?

 

I agree with recommended tips and always follow them unless faced with a poor situation.

 

PS - no doubt I will get comments that what I did was wrong in depriving someone of their tips. But I work hard for my time off and I won't get those evenings back.

 

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I don't think it was wrong. The corporations like NCL absolutely are shifting their labor costs to the consumers. THAT is what should be getting everyone's ire up.

 

That being said, NCL for one, is calling it a service charge where Celebrity still calls them prepaid gratuities. So, I'm fine with what NCL is implementing. We know they are essentially tips, but if they refer to them as a charge, there is a slight difference imo.

[SantaFeFan]

I addressed this in another thread and won't repeat all of it, but the gist of it is I always tip according to service, with my total being at or above what the ship would charge, but I always remove them from my bill and tip in cash.

 

And I will repost the same reply I gave on that thread:

 

What you are doing is a complete waste of time. On virtually all cruise lines - including Celebrity - if autotips are removed, any cash tips given to the crew MUST be turned over to the supervisor to be pooled and shared as appropriate to the people who support the crew you deal with. By giving them the money in cash, you do two very critical things:

 

1) The removal of tips implies you are dissatisfied with the service levels you are getting. Anyone who is assigned as your service staff will be looked at as providing inferior service, which can affect their promotion opportunities.

 

2) You have now added to the service staff's work load. They now have to report those cash tips, a step they would not have to do if the autotips were kept in place. They have one more unnecessary thing the must deal with.

 

If you leave autotips in place, and give ADDITIONAL tips, then in most cases, the staff can keep it as a "bonus".

 

All of this has been well documented in many threads over the years, and has been substantiated by several cruise ship employees who often post on CC.

 

Another important point: based on what people have reported over the years, when they insist on cash only, they typically end up giving less than the amounts they would have paid with autotips. For a seven day cruise at about $12 per person, the cash tips should total at least $168 per couple. Very few people report giving anything close to that. So, the bottom line is that in many cases the crew is given less than they would have, and the 'giver' keeps the rest for himself. Not quite fair, in my opinion.

 

So leave the autotips in place. Then give more in cash if you want to give them a bonus. And deal with service issues when the occur, and not at the end of the cruise by removing tips.

Edited September 15, 2015 by SantaFeFan

[gergles]

They can't really tell the crew weeks after they got their paycheck that they'll have to pay some of it back can they? I may be a bit too imaginative here, but the next step is that NCL will have to guarantee 90% or so. (I read somewhere that cruiselines alread chip in for cruises where gratuities are removed a lot more than usual). Then the next step would that there is no moral obligation to pay gratuities anymore, because you wouldn't hurt the crew but just the billion dollar line. And then the line would need to raise the fare to pay the full salary.

 

I can't say I would mind that scenario.

There's no moral obligation to pay them now. The people that work on cruise ships are not slaves.

 

They are informed about their compensation, that some people may remove tips, and that this will impact their compensation, and are also given statistics and data about how much they should expect on average -- and ultimately, if they aren't satisfied with their compensation, they have the same option anybody else has with any other job and can quit.

 

Given the number of cruise staff I've seen with a double-digit number of contracts under their belts, obviously they are fine with the current system. While I've never removed tips, you bet your button I would in a minute if I found the service anywhere near unsatisfactory.

 

Paying gratuities is a personal decision, and the people who work on the ship go in with full knowledge that some people will not pay gratuities. Villifying people who choose to remove a fee that is described as optional/discretionary is wrong.

 

Also, they can easily clawback grats if they are removed later. Ask a commissioned salesperson about clawbacks, it's the exact same scenario.

[purpletequila]

I have been on over 100 cruises (100+ on Celebrity, 5-6 each on RCL, Holland & NCL).

 

Only once did I ever reduce the tips.

 

On NCL one time - the last time I sailed on them (out of 5 NCL cruises).

 

When the cabin steward cannot even supply toilet paper and one has to steal it from the public rest room they dont deserve the full gratuity.

 

They have anytime dining. We dine early. Set the room indicator to "Make Up Room". Every night it was after 9 PM before the room was made up.

 

We brought up the problems numerous times to no avail.

 

Never a problem with over 100 cruises on Celebrity !!!

 

See, now working hard all day or not, this steward was not working in a way that was acceptable to YOU so I think you had every right to remove his tips. Maybe the people whose rooms he was cleaning on time etc tipped him more.

[sloopsailor]

Could allowing people to email AFTER they have left the ship and get their tips back not result in more people trying it?

 

The average person has a very short attention span. I suspect that NCL believes - as I do - that after the passengers get home they won't bother with emailing for a refund. Much like many people don't apply for an available rebate, or don't use all of their gift cards. For the average person, that would take too much of an effort - if they even remember the email address after they get home.

 

Plus, it would be very easy for NCL to deny the refund for any number of reasons, making even more work for them.

Edited September 15, 2015 by sloopsailor

[Priya2]

A different point, but related I think. There are many Brits who have trouble getting the heads around tipping a minimum of 15% in a restaurant in the US irrespective of service. They don't get that the system is entirely different to that in the UK where wait staff are paid a proper wage and a tip is a discretionary bonus given for good or great service. Having travelled to the US a great deal over nearly 30 years, I know that service is paid for seperately, to what is paid to the restaurant for food and amenities, because the staff are only paid a small retainer to work there. Based on the British model, gratuities for Ship personel would not need to be included in the fare if the personel were paid decent salaries. Either way it would be added onto the cruise fare.

 

Under the current system, I don't think cruisers should have the option of removing or reducing tips because some don't realise how low the salaries are and that tips are relied upon as part of the personal's income. Some of course are just mean and lack compassion. That isn't a good reason to remove them either!

[jono mono]

Pay a proper rate for the job ,adjust the price of the cruise accordingly,problem solved !! if you can afford the "new" price you go if not you don't.

But then it wouldn't be the same without the argument between north Americans/Canadian's and people who grew up in different counties without the tipping culture,I.E ME !!

[wwcruisers]

The average person has a very short attention span. I suspect that NCL believes - as I do - that after the passengers get home they won't bother with emailing for a refund. Much like many people don't apply for an available rebate, or don't use all of their gift cards. For the average person, that would take too much of an effort - if they even remember the email address after they get home.

 

 

I had much the same thought. Most folks can't remember (or be bothered) to fill out the on-line survey, after the cruise. Whereas, some folks -- most with serious issues -- will take the time to write, call, or e-mail corporate, anyway. But, they are in the minority -- something I'm sure that NCL is betting on.

[RDC1]

On our last cruise I asked our room stewart & waiter, asst. waiter in the MDR would they rather being paid in cash or just let the pre-paid stay. They all said CASH, so I went & cancelled there part of the tips & gave them cash. I asked them why, they all said they don't have to put it in the pool.

 

george35

 

Of course in doing so the three got the full tip amount, instead of the percentage that they would get from the pool. Basically they did not have to share with those behind the scenes that provide services and in many ways support those three. No wonder that they said yes. You probably doubled the amount each of them would get, even though it meant stiffing others.

[true45]

There's no moral obligation to pay them now. The people that work on cruise ships are not slaves.

 

 

 

They are informed about their compensation, that some people may remove tips, and that this will impact their compensation, and are also given statistics and data about how much they should expect on average -- and ultimately, if they aren't satisfied with their compensation, they have the same option anybody else has with any other job and can quit.

 

 

 

Given the number of cruise staff I've seen with a double-digit number of contracts under their belts, obviously they are fine with the current system. While I've never removed tips, you bet your button I would in a minute if I found the service anywhere near unsatisfactory.

 

 

 

Paying gratuities is a personal decision, and the people who work on the ship go in with full knowledge that some people will not pay gratuities. Villifying people who choose to remove a fee that is described as optional/discretionary is wrong.

 

 

 

Also, they can easily clawback grats if they are removed later. Ask a commissioned salesperson about clawbacks, it's the exact same scenario.

 

 

I agree

As long as the gratuities are called gratuities, they are and should be discretionary

The overwhelming majority of shipboard personnel give great service but once in a while, not.

 

I've been cruising a long time and have never taken off auto tips & give more when I get great service and as much as I can afford.

 

But I started cruising a long time ago when the tips were something I had to save up for. One sailing, before auto grat's, on the last evening, we did not see the steward before dinner and went off with our envelopes to the dining room. When we got back to the cabin at the end of the evening, our bed was messed up, closet door open, sheets hanging out, etc. Couldn't find the steward to see what was going on, supervisor couldn't find him and room went unserviced. So I removed part of his money from his envelope. This was at a time that my husband worked 3 jobs at sometimes very hard conditions to make ends meet. To reward bad service with automatic gratuities is not moral. If they were automatic, what would I have done? give up our last evening of vacation to wait in line to remove them? It isn't my job to supervise the staff.

 

This was the only time I felt that was necessary. We get good service normally and if something isn't right have been able to work it out without touching gratuities. if gratuities can't be touched it means they are a mandatory service charge and I consider them part of the fare.

 

"Reward, gift, bonus" is the definition not salary.

 

Happy sailing[emoji571]

[Pavovsky]

For those in favour of paying tips for service on top of your cruise fare, what do you think of the new all inclusive fares including pre-paid gratuities? Will this improve service?

 

 

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[RocketMan275]

I don't think it was wrong. The corporations like NCL absolutely are shifting their labor costs to the consumers. THAT is what should be getting everyone's ire up.

 

That being said, NCL for one, is calling it a service charge where Celebrity still calls them prepaid gratuities. So, I'm fine with what NCL is implementing. We know they are essentially tips, but if they refer to them as a charge, there is a slight difference imo.

 

The only money corporations have to pay labor costs are those funds they collect from their consumers. There is absolutely no reason anyone should 'get their ire up' over paying labor costs.

[rjrpar]

I guess since you had one experience with good service on a cruise with tips included we should all assume it will happen every time. We also tip per the guidelines and I think people are motivated by money, so I prefer to keep that option of removing tips for bad service. I agree that the staffs on most cruises provide great service and I believe that optional tips are partly responsible for that effort

[Velvetwater]

Gratuities should be optional and people should be able to decide what they want to do. If a room steward etc really screwed up/was rude then they should have their tips reduced removed. My room steward on a cruise lost my nightshirt from my cabin and took our power strip (despite it being wrapped in a note about it being checked and allowed). Needless to say I reduced her tips and gave the amount I took off to wait staff.

 

NCL is just scrambling for money as usual by making it harder to reduce/remove tips. For some, doing it once you get home may actually be easier as they just have to ring up/email and not say what they want to do to someone in person.

 

The simple solution is to offer a fair cruise price with grats included and a fair wage to workers.

 

Some of the best customer service I have had has been in countries that do not do extensive tipping to supplement wages. Also Carnival Aus includes tips in its price and have some amazing prices so companies can do it...they are just relying on tradition and being greedy.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Velvetwater

[purpletequila]

The only money corporations have to pay labor costs are those funds they collect from their consumers. There is absolutely no reason anyone should 'get their ire up' over paying labor costs.

 

 

Collected from their consumers from costs built into the price of their goods to generally pay a set salary. What cruise lines do is different. It is more akin to running a restaurant where staff gets minimal pay and the customer base ultimately determines their salary through gratuities.

 

I would argue that corporations like cruise lines should not operate on the restaurant/waiter model and rather pay their staff a decent set salary allowing tips to serve more as a bonus.

 

But whatever. I pay the pre-paid and give them more as the week goes on.

[LSEA]

I don't think it was wrong. The corporations like NCL absolutely are shifting their labor costs to the consumers. THAT is what should be getting everyone's ire up.

end quote Doesn't every corporation shift their labor costs to the consumers? Maybe its through tips, maybe it's through a higher cost for the product. However it's done, consumers pay.

Edited September 15, 2015 by LSEA

[Cruise Raider]

I guess too many were stiffing the staff.

 

We were on an extremely inexpensive NCL cruise several years back. It brought all kinds onto the sailing. We observed a lot of sneaking of huge quantities of alcohol onboard and heard this one drunk passenger going on and on about feeling ripped off because nobody told him about the tipping policy. It was a shame that the hard working staff and crew suffer because some passengers don't feel the need to tip.

Maybe, it should probably just be added to the price of the cruise to avoid these situations altogether as it is when you choose select dining! At least NCL is making it a bit more difficult for passengers to remove the gratuities.

[GUT2407]

as VERY FEW companies do, and those being generally ultra luxury lines with cabin fares to match.

 

Lines that add on a gratuity:

• Cunard
  
• Costa - and DOES NOT allow modifications
  
• Carnival
  
• RCL
  
• Celebrity
  
• MSC- no modifications without proving bad service
  
• Cruise & Maritime Voyages
  
• Disney
  
• HAL
  
• NCL - Does not allow modifications eff. 9/15/2015
  
• P&O - UK (intersting, P&O Australia does not)
  
• Princess
  
• Oceania
  
• Windstar
  

Lines that Include in Fare

• Saga Crusies
  
• Thomson Cruises
  
• Azamara
  
• Hapag Lloyd
  
• Regent Seven Seas
  
• Seabourn
  
• Sea Dream
  
• Silversea
  

Lines that allow full discretion

• P&O Australia
  

 

 

Princess and Carnival add it to the fare in Australia.

[GUT2407]

I never understand why people get so worked up over the "tip vs gratuity vs service charge" vocabulary.

 

Does it matter if you pay:

1. $2000 cruise fare
   
2. $1800 fare + $200 gratuity = $2000
   
3. $1800 fare + $200 tip = $2000
   
4. $1800 fare + $200 service charge = $2000
   

 

 

Isn't that also an argument for including them in the fare.

 

Or are people o stupid to do those sums?

[bEwAbG]

Isn't that also an argument for including them in the fare. Or are people o stupid to do those sums?

 

A few years ago, the JC Penney chain of department stores in the US tried to mark everything at a set price and got rid of the ridiculous yet constant "sales" and couponing that every other retailer does. They almost lost their shirts in the process and the CEO who implemented it was forced out (replaced by his predecessor). So, yes, apparently enough consumers are too stupid to do the math.