Muster drill difficulties

[K&RCurt]

So, I have to ask.

 

There are people who have issues standing long enough to go through the muster drill (The ones I have been to have been 20 min standing by the boats MAX.) People faint from standing on the deck, etc.

 

What is going to happen to these folks in an actual emergency? If there are folks who have trouble making it through a 20 min drill in dead calm conditions tied to the pier, what will happen in the middle of the ocean with 30 - 40 foot waves and the ship adrift?

 

chengkp75: Are there extra crew members assigned to the muster stations to help such passengers? You mentioned a Special Needs muster station - Should the cruise line make more people aware of this? Would it be appropriate for folks who have trouble standing, etc to take advantage of this?

 

I am really not "worse case scenario" obsessed, but I can't help but be concerned about the fate of folks who may not be sufficiently fit to stand for any amount of time in an emergency situation.

[catl331]

Last time I felt I was not breathing enough of air and started dizziness They took me to the lounge.

 

I firmy believe one should report to the actual station if physically possible. The ones that hold things up are the ones not listening to directions and not showing up. No excuses---unpacking, just started lunch, late plane arrival, tiredness etc. Your lifeboat can be 100% attendance but it just takes one boat to throw it out of whack. In reality, it is better than total confusion. HAL does have many senior citizens and it is best to get the drill right.

[KirkNC]

So, I have to ask.

 

There are people who have issues standing long enough to go through the muster drill (The ones I have been to have been 20 min standing by the boats MAX.) People faint from standing on the deck, etc.

 

What is going to happen to these folks in an actual emergency? If there are folks who have trouble making it through a 20 min drill in dead calm conditions tied to the pier, what will happen in the middle of the ocean with 30 - 40 foot waves and the ship adrift?

 

chengkp75: Are there extra crew members assigned to the muster stations to help such passengers? You mentioned a Special Needs muster station - Should the cruise line make more people aware of this? Would it be appropriate for folks who have trouble standing, etc to take advantage of this?

 

I am really not "worse case scenario" obsessed, but I can't help but be concerned about the fate of folks who may not be sufficiently fit to stand for any amount of time in an emergency situation.

 

Read the book Burning Cold on the sinking of HAL's Prinsendam in the Gulf of Akaska. It was a miracle there was no loss of life. I have talked to people who were on that ship and they said it was pretty bad.

[chengkp75]

So, I have to ask.

 

There are people who have issues standing long enough to go through the muster drill (The ones I have been to have been 20 min standing by the boats MAX.) People faint from standing on the deck, etc.

 

What is going to happen to these folks in an actual emergency? If there are folks who have trouble making it through a 20 min drill in dead calm conditions tied to the pier, what will happen in the middle of the ocean with 30 - 40 foot waves and the ship adrift?

 

chengkp75: Are there extra crew members assigned to the muster stations to help such passengers? You mentioned a Special Needs muster station - Should the cruise line make more people aware of this? Would it be appropriate for folks who have trouble standing, etc to take advantage of this?

 

I am really not "worse case scenario" obsessed, but I can't help but be concerned about the fate of folks who may not be sufficiently fit to stand for any amount of time in an emergency situation.

 

Muster stations for crew are developed by each line, within some very broad IMO requirements. There generally aren't any extra crew assigned to each muster station to deal with medical emergencies, but the muster leaders can contact the bridge by radio and get help. The special needs muster station is where those crew assigned to assist special needs passengers will muster, and there will be several there. These people are sent to find and/or assist special needs passengers as noted on the muster list, or whether the people have shown up yet. They can be sent to regular muster stations to assist with medical problems, and as I've said, there is generally a nurse stationed at the special needs location to assist as required.

 

And yes, passenger endurance is a concern, just look at the Star Princess fire, where the passengers were at muster stations for 7 hours. But, it is the nature of the beast when dealing with an aging cruising population, so you learn to deal with it to the best you can, always remembering that triage protocols can be heartless at times.

[Lizzie68]

So, I have to ask.

 

There are people who have issues standing long enough to go through the muster drill (The ones I have been to have been 20 min standing by the boats MAX.) People faint from standing on the deck, etc.

 

What is going to happen to these folks in an actual emergency? If there are folks who have trouble making it through a 20 min drill in dead calm conditions tied to the pier, what will happen in the middle of the ocean with 30 - 40 foot waves and the ship adrift?

 

chengkp75: Are there extra crew members assigned to the muster stations to help such passengers? You mentioned a Special Needs muster station - Should the cruise line make more people aware of this? Would it be appropriate for folks who have trouble standing, etc to take advantage of this?

 

I am really not "worse case scenario" obsessed, but I can't help but be concerned about the fate of folks who may not be sufficiently fit to stand for any amount of time in an emergency situation.

 

It's unfortunate that I have seen people I know, and who I know are well able to stand at the lifeboat station for muster drill, go to the front office and insist that they have some handicap that precludes them from standing and therefore should do the Special Needs drill. I would hate to see anyone encouraged to do this if they really do not need to. What would they do in a real emergency? Perhaps the procedures used by some other cruise lines whereby the drill is at an inside location would stop this kind of abuse of the system.

I understand your concern - I worry about how quickly my DH would make it to the lifeboat in a real emergency, or how the wheelchairs would be handled.

[Hflors]

I have a sister who has trouble standing in a crowd for any length of time. She will try and then if she gets too upset (she suffers from claustrophobia) She merely moves forward to the crew in charge and they always let her stand next to them at the railing. This isn't to say all the situations are as easy to solve at this, but it is something to think about if and when you need to be at a muster station.

 

I'm with the rest of you all. I don't ever remember a muster drill lasting one hour.

 

BTW - I was on a cruise once. After we left port and the muster drill, around first seating the captain of the ship came on and announced several names. Then he told them they should enjoy their dinner because if they didn't attend the make up drill in one hour it was going to be their last meal onboard.

 

The next morning before anyone left the ship there was one tender that headed out and left the ship. We never did find out if the people in question were sent packing, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were.

[GE Mom]

Thanks for the helpful advice. I think part of the difficulty for me is that I'm leaving a cold climate and flying to a warm port of embarkation and when I'm forced to be outside in the heat in a prolonged standing position, it's simply normal physiology to feel faint. I can't be the only person who experiences this -- and it's certainly not good customer relations to 'torture' your customers!

 

Again, I understand and support the need to do the safety drill, but I wish HAL would do it like Princess and Celebrity, with a little less discomfort!

[PatsyAnne]

Is there any way to avoid having to stand outside in the heat during muster drill? On our last (Carnival) cruise, we ended up having to stand outside for almost an hour and I nearly fainted and threw up. It's really difficult for me to stand for that long. I was crowded by much taller people and it was extremely unpleasant. I have no problem with doing the safety drill, but it lasted WAY too long and was full of trivial, non-safety related drivel. Can I get a chair to sit in? Is there any way to better endure this?

 

 

If you don't do anything else different, when you get to your station you can ask to stand in front so that you can see. Sometimes they will ask you to stand that way (taller in back).

[RMLincoln]

My opinion of HAL's process for muster drill is less than favorable. JMO.

 

I am a rural firefighter/EMT and we do a lot of training for emergency situations.... the number one need is for the emergency responders to maintain control of the situation.

 

I prefer mustering inside, both for drills and for emergency operations because:

1. the training is easier for the passengers to absorb, easier to hear and see. Videos are often used for inside muster drills and communicate well to passengers.

2. In an emergency, passengers and the crew serving them would out of the elements, have better control of communications, be better staged to direct passengers to the lifeboats that are to be used - remember that the Concordia couldn't use all of its lifeboats; and all will be sheltered out of the elements.

3. Accountability is easier to obtain and maintain.

 

I stipulate that I have never had to run a ship evacuation but each HAL muster drill I go to makes me wonder. I can just imagine the pushing, shoving, shouting, trampling. The crews at the muster drill stations can't even get people to be quiet and have a hard time just taking attendance. Makes me shudder.

 

Looks like Koningsdam will need a different process because the decks are so narrow... I'll stay tuned and see what evolves. There's always hope.

m--

[TiogaCruiser]

The emergency drill for my March 2016 cruise was very close to an hour.

 

It was a hot day (over 100) and our side was in the sun. Many people did not come out for quite awhile. I can only guess they were herded out of wherever they had been, as after 10-15 minutes there was a steady stream of people walking along the rail. This was long after the drill started. When we finally got everybody to the stations, people wouldn't stop talking and you couldn't hear. One woman, who made a very late appearance, (way past fashionably late) then wouldn't shut up about how hot she was. Thanks to her, and lots of others, those of us (about 60% of our lifeboat) who did what we were supposed to do, when we were supposed to, got a double dose of that heat. (I bit my tongue and didn't say anything as her DD, or DDIL, quickly said to her "we're ALL hot". That young lady was going to have to deal with her longer than the rest of us.)

[kalliekae]

Count me as someone who thinks HAL needs to rethink the muster drill. I also get faint after standing there for 30 minutes in the sun packed together like sardines. After sailing with RCCL and seeing the way they handle their drills, it is a world of difference and accomplishes the same thing with ease. On RC's mega ships, we were assigned to indoor venues or the Aqua Theatre (outside but with seats) and there are drop down TV's throughout the ship that show a lifeboat drill. Additionally, they scan your sea pass card as you come into the area so there is no roll call. If someone doesn't show up, crew are sent to find them. It lasts about 30 minutes and chairs are provided for those that can't stand. Simple and easy. I dread going to HAL's muster drills.

[chengkp75]

My opinion of HAL's process for muster drill is less than favorable. JMO.

 

I am a rural firefighter/EMT and we do a lot of training for emergency situations.... the number one need is for the emergency responders to maintain control of the situation.

 

I prefer mustering inside, both for drills and for emergency operations because:

1. the training is easier for the passengers to absorb, easier to hear and see. Videos are often used for inside muster drills and communicate well to passengers.

2. In an emergency, passengers and the crew serving them would out of the elements, have better control of communications, be better staged to direct passengers to the lifeboats that are to be used - remember that the Concordia couldn't use all of its lifeboats; and all will be sheltered out of the elements.

3. Accountability is easier to obtain and maintain.

 

I stipulate that I have never had to run a ship evacuation but each HAL muster drill I go to makes me wonder. I can just imagine the pushing, shoving, shouting, trampling. The crews at the muster drill stations can't even get people to be quiet and have a hard time just taking attendance. Makes me shudder.

 

Looks like Koningsdam will need a different process because the decks are so narrow... I'll stay tuned and see what evolves. There's always hope.

m--

 

Just a few facts about the Concordia that I'd like to make. First, 23 of 26 lifeboats were successfully launched. Second, as I've stated before, the cause of the confusion there was lack of communication from the bridge to the crew at the boat stations regarding whether to muster or not, and the fact that the muster was not called for one hour after the collision.

 

Count me as someone who thinks HAL needs to rethink the muster drill. I also get faint after standing there for 30 minutes in the sun packed together like sardines. After sailing with RCCL and seeing the way they handle their drills, it is a world of difference and accomplishes the same thing with ease. On RC's mega ships, we were assigned to indoor venues or the Aqua Theatre (outside but with seats) and there are drop down TV's throughout the ship that show a lifeboat drill. Additionally, they scan your sea pass card as you come into the area so there is no roll call. If someone doesn't show up, crew are sent to find them. It lasts about 30 minutes and chairs are provided for those that can't stand. Simple and easy. I dread going to HAL's muster drills.

 

As I've said, you cannot just decide to hold musters indoors. The locations must meet SOLAS requirements for ingress, egress, capacity, emergency lighting, and time/distance to the boat embarkation locations. This is all done when the ship is designed, before it is built, and is done using crowd and crisis management paradigms that tell the flag state officials and the classification society surveyors that the spaces designed for muster meet the criteria. These design criteria generally are not met by spaces that have not been designed from the beginning to meet them. This is why you will not see the muster stations change on a ship over its life. Newer ships have decreased the size of the promenade decks, in order to maximize revenue generating space inside the ship, so it became mandatory to have indoor musters. But older ships just cannot change because they want to.

 

And, please, again remember that the muster is not about the boats. There are probably 50 or more instances where the passengers were mustered because of an emergency to every time they actually took to the boats. It is about accountability, and when everyone is accounted for, then, based on the particular circumstances of the emergency, people may be moved in groups to other, indoor locations, or allowed to get medications from cabins, or whatever. During the Star Princess fire, where the people were at muster for 7 hours, the Captain directed that passengers could be escorted to take care of needs.

 

And I have been in charge of shipboard emergencies, drills, and training for 25 of my 40 years at sea, and was in charge of over 100 emergency drills on cruise ships.

[Himself]

The HAL drill takes too long and for one reason. There is too much talking by passengers. Another problem is people do not line up correctly. The correct way to line is women and children in front and men in back.

[boone2]

It seems to happen fairly often - someone fainting (or worse) during the muster drill, especially when it is a hot day.

 

 

That is why there is always a nurse on standby in the atrium. It varies from ship to ship but the best thing is to go to your muster station and ask if you can check in and then sit in the atrium. It isn't always allowed, but in alot of cases it is. The important thing is that you turn up - no excuses allowed.

Terry

[Boytjie]

The HAL drill takes too long and for one reason. There is too much talking by passengers. Another problem is people do not line up correctly. The correct way to line is women and children in front and men in back.

 

In my experience people have talked just as much when mustering indoors as when mustering outdoors.

 

Well, that muster line-up won't amount to much on a gay charter where there are no kids and maybe 5-10% are women. ;)

[Oceanwench]

We have yet to find a Special Needs muster on a HAL ship, though we have asked the front desk and the concierge.

DH has a hard time getting out on the promenade deck in his wheelchair, and requires assistance getting back inside after the drill. There is a threshold that is difficult for him to cross.

 

We recently sailed on Norwegian Escape and Disney Fantasy.

On Escape our muster station was in a MDR. After we checked in, a crew member came over to us and suggested we sit close to the entrance of the room, so when the drill was over, we wouldn't be mobbed by people exiting.

I was impressed!

That has never happened on HAL, and we are always on our own after the drill ends.

 

On Fantasy, our muster station was in the movie theater. We were in the HC accessible area. as the drill was drawing to an end, a crew member came over to us and escorted us out of the theater ahead of the crowd.

 

I have come to dread the muster drill on HAL, but the experiences on the other two lines was fairly pleasant.

[TiogaCruiser]

The HAL drill takes too long and for one reason. There is too much talking by passengers. Another problem is people do not line up correctly. The correct way to line is women and children in front and men in back.

 

My last several cruises we have lined up (supposedly) by height, not women and children in front.

[Cruiser 4 Life 66]

Is there any way to avoid having to stand outside in the heat during muster drill? On our last (Carnival) cruise, we ended up having to stand outside for almost an hour and I nearly fainted and threw up. It's really difficult for me to stand for that long. I was crowded by much taller people and it was extremely unpleasant. I have no problem with doing the safety drill, but it lasted WAY too long and was full of trivial, non-safety related drivel. Can I get a chair to sit in? Is there any way to better endure this?

 

Yeah, it is the worst part of the cruise, and a bad way to start your cruise. but it's the law and could save your life.

At least they don't make you wear your life jacket anymore.

That makes you even hotter and feeling more nauseous and like you're gonna faint. Especially from the smell of the life jacket pushed up against your face.

Some cruise lines you don't have to go outside and stand in the heat and humidity squished up against your fellow passengers like sardines.

On some you can go lounges, the casino, etc. and just sit down and listen.

Much better I think, but I guess HA wants you at your exact muster stations.

I get there early so I can lean against the wall and just grin and bare it, knowing it's better just to get it out of the way, and after that I can enjoy my cruise and not have anybody tell me what I HAVE to do.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Cruiser 4 Life 66

[1884Vic]

My last several cruises we have lined up (supposedly) by height, not women and children in front.

 

That was my experience too, although since I am habitually early to everything, I wind up getting shoved in the back with my 6'4" husband even though I am 5'2".

 

 

A seven day cruise lasts 10,080 minutes. I don't know why people can't stop talking for 20 minutes of that to get it over with.

[SeaBands]

who make the drills too long. Sometimes it's quite hot and other times it was very cold.I think I read that they are now not requiring passengers on B2B to go to the second muster as they know where their station is. That's an improvement if it is true.

[hrhdhd]

Some cruise lines you don't have to go outside and stand in the heat and humidity squished up against your fellow passengers like sardines.

 

On some you can go lounges, the casino, etc. and just sit down and listen.

Much better I think, but I guess HA wants you at your exact muster stations.

 

Note: on a line such as Princess, the lounge, casino, etc., IS the muster station. On HAL, at least on the current ships, the muster stations are at the lifeboats.

[chengkp75]

Yeah, it is the worst part of the cruise, and a bad way to start your cruise. but it's the law and could save your life.

At least they don't make you wear your life jacket anymore.

That makes you even hotter and feeling more nauseous and like you're gonna faint. Especially from the smell of the life jacket pushed up against your face.

Some cruise lines you don't have to go outside and stand in the heat and humidity squished up against your fellow passengers like sardines.

On some you can go lounges, the casino, etc. and just sit down and listen.

Much better I think, but I guess HA wants you at your exact muster stations.

I get there early so I can lean against the wall and just grin and bare it, knowing it's better just to get it out of the way, and after that I can enjoy my cruise and not have anybody tell me what I HAVE to do.

 

Note: on a line such as Princess, the lounge, casino, etc., IS the muster station. On HAL, at least on the current ships, the muster stations are at the lifeboats.

 

See post #37 about why this isn't just some decision by the cruise line to annoy the passengers. Guess what, on those ships where you go to a lounge, restaurant or casino, that is your exact muster station where you will go in an actual emergency.

[Topsham]

That makes you even hotter and feeling more nauseous and like you're gonna faint. Especially from the smell against your face.

Some cruise lines you don't have to go outside and stand in the heat and humidity squished up against your fellow passengers like sardines.

.

 

 

Thanks Cruiser 4.

 

 

Which is worse? The twenty minute muster on deck or four hours on a bus tour?

 

I'll stay out on deck!

[Lizzie68]

I just read on a Zuiderdam review that their muster drill was done inside, close to where the lifeboat station was, due to bad weather. If it can be done that way once, why not always?

[kazu]

We sailed in Oceania back in November, their muster drills are inside. Some go to the MDR, showroom, etc. We did have to take our life jackets and did have to put them on. You were supposed to keep them on until you got back to your room. It gets mighty hot with those dam things on in the show room. It was a Long drawn out procedure, much longer than HAL's.

 

Frankly, I was uneasy to think of this as our muster station and waiting for this huge crowd to move if we had to get to a lifeboat.

 

And to make matters worse, we had to do it again in 7 days.

 

I am more comfortable knowing where I have to get to in an emergency and getting there without waiting for 400+ other people who may be ahead of me (seats were allocated based on location and we were near back)