Anthem keeps docking us around

[astera]

All the talk about the list the ship can take, I found this video of Capt Claus talking about it and the storm. He says it can take a 47 degree list.

 

Apparently all new vessels are tested to 45 degrees before the ship even goes into operation.

 

Wouldn't want to be on a cruise with the ship tilting anywhere near that much though...

[chengkp75]

Apparently all new vessels are tested to 45 degrees before the ship even goes into operation.

 

Wouldn't want to be on a cruise with the ship tilting anywhere near that much though...

 

I don't believe any ship is actually tested to a 45* list. What is done is computer modelling where the center of gravity is known and the center of buoyancy is known, so the metacentric height can be calculated and the righting moment calculated at any angle of roll. Once the theoretical calculations have been done, the first ship in a given "class" of ships will do an inclining experiment. They will place a known weight at a known distance from the centerline, measure how far the ship lists (only a couple of degrees), and confirm that this is what the calculations predicted. The calculations are carried out to 45+*, not the actual inclining.

 

This has been done for over a century, even before computers. I sailed on cargo ships that had mechanical computers where the Chief Mate rotated dials to enter the cargo weights at various locations on the ship and the gears would turn and the dials would spin, and the GM (distance from the center of gravity to the metacenter) would show up. This "GM" is the real measure of stability.

 

As I've said, unless something changes, due to shifting weight, or an opening reaching the water level and allowing down flooding, a ship really has its maximum righting force at 90*. Some lifeboats are designed to roll upright even when completely upside down, so you can design a vessel that has its maximum righting force at 180*.

 

Think of the punching clown. You tap it (small wind/wave force) and it rocks over a little bit. You really smack it (hurricane) and it rocks nearly horizontal, but snaps right back up. It goes over as far as necessary until the righting force is greater than the force causing the roll.

[xpcdoojk]

O O, you are describing physics again. The emotional people don't like science.:D

 

Happy Valentines Day

 

JC

[xpcdoojk]

Speaking of facts, has anyone been tracking the Anthem or heard a report of what kind of speed she is making as she heads south? I would like to put to bed the serious damage or superficial damage arguments.

 

JC

[chengkp75]

Speaking of facts, has anyone been tracking the Anthem or heard a report of what kind of speed she is making as she heads south? I would like to put to bed the serious damage or superficial damage arguments.

 

JC

 

Well, she dropped off AIS around Atlantic City (OMG, where did she go? Is this another cover up? Maybe another Philadelphia Experiment?) doing about 14 knots. I believe she is going to Port Canaveral? If so, given a roughly 1800 time outside NYC, and a 0600 arrival at PC on the 16th, 14 knots is about what she needs to make good. My internet is wonky this morning, so anyone with an itinerary would be helpful.

[TravelerThom]

Well, she dropped off AIS around Atlantic City (OMG, where did she go? Is this another cover up? Maybe another Philadelphia Experiment?) doing about 14 knots. I believe she is going to Port Canaveral? If so, given a roughly 1800 time outside NYC, and a 0600 arrival at PC on the 16th, 14 knots is about what she needs to make good. My internet is wonky this morning, so anyone with an itinerary would be helpful.

Scheduled arrival Port Canaveral 16 Feb, 06:30 am.

 

Presently Anthem is progressing as scheduled through a wormhole in the Bermuda triangle.:rolleyes:

[Clarea]

Well, she dropped off AIS around Atlantic City (OMG, where did she go? Is this another cover up? Maybe another Philadelphia Experiment?) doing about 14 knots.... .

Good one.:D

[Host Star]

we did a bridge tour once and the question was asked at what point can the lifeboats not be lowered.. the question was answered but somehow I put it out of my mind... does anyone know this fact??

[cpufrost]

Anyone have a sat subscription at Marine Traffic? ;)

[chengkp75]

we did a bridge tour once and the question was asked at what point can the lifeboats not be lowered.. the question was answered but somehow I put it out of my mind... does anyone know this fact??

 

SOLAS requires that all lifesaving equipment be usable up to a 20* list.

[chengkp75]

Anyone have a sat subscription at Marine Traffic? ;)

 

Don't pay for it. It still only updates once a day. This is a limit placed on consumer tracking services by the regulatory bodies that govern the AIS system, for both security reasons and traffic volume for vessel location requests.

[cpufrost]

Don't pay for it. It still only updates once a day. This is a limit placed on consumer tracking services by the regulatory bodies that govern the AIS system, for both security reasons and traffic volume for vessel location requests.

 

Haha I'd never pay for it I was being sarcastic, it's crazy expensive! :eek:

[shaun07]

SOLAS requires that all lifesaving equipment be usable up to a 20* list.

 

put it back out of your mind:eek:

[loubetti]

SOLAS requires that all lifesaving equipment be usable up to a 20* list.

 

Hey Cheng, a little trick for you: Hold down the Alt key, then on the number pad to the right, hit 0176.

 

Then you get 20°. Okay, 20* is easier! ;)

 

If you want £ the code is 0163. € = Alt 0128

 

This assumes a US key board.

 

Here ya' go!

 

http://www.alt-codes.net/

 

I mean, you engineers memorize a lot, what's a bit more? Actually I have the common ones printed and taped to the side of my monitor.

 

♥♥♥♥♥♥ That's Alt 3. Appropriate for Valentines day!

 

Oy, where am I taking Linda for dinner tonight?!!

[cpufrost]

@Lou: Nice tip.

 

Most using a PC are probably running some version of Windows. There's a character mapper (charmap.exe) that lets you copy characters too. We use it all the time when working with circuits, ex:

 

480V 3Φ

447 µF

4~27kHz ± 3.5dB

4.7Ω

Intel®

 

I won't admit how many we remember and hit ALT+ͷͷͷ. :eek:

 

There's my 2¢.

 

:)

[chengkp75]

Hey Cheng, a little trick for you: Hold down the Alt key, then on the number pad to the right, hit 0176.

 

Then you get 20°. Okay, 20* is easier! ;)

 

If you want £ the code is 0163. € = Alt 0128

 

This assumes a US key board.

 

Here ya' go!

 

http://www.alt-codes.net/

 

I mean, you engineers memorize a lot, what's a bit more? Actually I have the common ones printed and taped to the side of my monitor.

 

♥♥♥♥♥♥ That's Alt 3. Appropriate for Valentines day!

 

Oy, where am I taking Linda for dinner tonight?!!

 

I can swing a wrench pretty good, but tech savvy I'm not. My kids think I'm still in the 19th century.

 

At least you get to make your manners to the fair lady in person. I've made my e-mails wishes, but middle son needs to step in for missing Dad. Hope all the ladies out there are having a wonderful day. Relax, rest, and forget about the Anthem.

[cruisenfever]

I can swing a wrench pretty good, but tech savvy I'm not. My kids think I'm still in the 19th century.

 

At least you get to make your manners to the fair lady in person. I've made my e-mails wishes, but middle son needs to step in for missing Dad. Hope all the ladies out there are having a wonderful day. Relax, rest, and forget about the Anthem.

I'm sorry that you can not be with your family today. Wishing you a Happy Valentine's Day because you are a real sweetheart to everyone here on CC.:)

[loubetti]

Ah, please Cheng, you are more tech savvy than you think.

 

I come from a very small family, and I am an only child. My mother passed away at age 90 on 11/30/15, and Linda is all I have (of course I do have friends, and some relatives far away from me).

 

Otherwise, I always look to learn more, as do you, and you have taught me even more about ships, as perhaps I do with you with airplanes. That's one way we learn.

 

BTW, I want to talk to you about the pods, and letting the props "windmill" in the water when they need to be shut down (the opposite with airplanes). The clutch thing I totally understand. Hell, I have one on my cordless electric drill. Not to mention the one I burnt out on my Alfa Romeo 37 years ago! :D

 

Enjoy the day at sea, look forward to talking about the pod props later.

 

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ He, he, he!

[Aquahound]

At least you get to make your manners to the fair lady in person. I've made my e-mails wishes, but middle son needs to step in for missing Dad. Hope all the ladies out there are having a wonderful day. Relax, rest, and forget about the Anthem.

 

Well said. Stay safe out there buddy. :)

[foxgoodrich]

I'm sorry that you can not be with your family today. Wishing you a Happy Valentine's Day because you are a real sweetheart to everyone here on CC.:)

 

Yes! And also, Chief, I realize that a cruise might not be the vacation of your dreams for a guy in your profession, but you really really need to bring your wife and sail a Royal Caribbean ship one day. We know you never have.

 

And there are so many of us here who have enjoyed learning from you over the years, your cruise account would most likely have no bar charges at all!:D

Judy

[chengkp75]

Yes! And also, Chief, I realize that a cruise might not be the vacation of your dreams for a guy in your profession, but you really really need to bring your wife and sail a Royal Caribbean ship one day. We know you never have.

 

And there are so many of us here who have enjoyed learning from you over the years, your cruise account would most likely have no bar charges at all!:D

Judy

 

That might help, because she really doesn't travel well, our first cruise was a QE2 crossing, and she stayed pretty well lubricated the whole time. It took many years before I could get her to go again (and an NCL employee discount), because all she thinks of is Titanic and sharks nibbling on her toes. One problem we do have, is my uncontrollable urge to barge through the "crew only" doors, because I know an easier way to get someplace. She has to keep reminding me that I'm not working at the time. :o

[CPT Trips]

I have to respectfully disagree that ALL cruise lines would have made the same decision. You really don't know that. In fact just a couple of weeks ago the Crown Princess experienced a 15 hour delay in sailing from Ensenada back to Los Angeles due to very high winds in Southern California. The winds in question weren't anywhere near as bad as those forecast for the storm into which the Anthem sailed. Yet Princess made a decision that for the safety and comfort of the passengers and crew it was best to delay.

 

This decision affected people on two cruise itineraries - the passengers returning to Los Angeles who missed flights and had to make alternate arrangements and those waiting to board for the next cruise who lost the entire first day of their cruise.

 

My point in stating this is that your assessment is far too broad. You really do not know what other cruise lines would have done. Judgments were made and in hindsight I think it is clear the ship should not have departed and headed into the storm.

 

How late was she disembarking pax at LA? How much did it delay departure for the next cruise?

[grandgeezer]

How late was she disembarking pax at LA? How much did it delay departure for the next cruise?

 

It might be good to know but it had no bearing on what they did. Princess made the choice that passenger/crew safety was more important than schedule or money. Was it the proper call? We'll never know but it was nice to see the passenger/crew safety be their number one focus.

[kearney]

Thanks POA thats what I figured. There's an article posted saying RC notified the Coast Guard of the damaged Azipod. So they knowingly lied saying the damages were only cosmetic. Obviously there was no way we could make it to Bahamas and back traveling less than 10 knots, so that was a convenient way to end the trip.

 

Yeh the damages were so serious that only a few hours the USCG allowed the ship to go on. If you read the millions of posts you will find many that corrects the story.

[kearney]

I don't see any options that would have avoided angry customers. Cancelling would have been the best. People would eventually get over having a cruise cancelled once they calmed down and realized why. The people who were actually on the ship, who were traumatized will live with that for a very long time.

 

The best option given that we now know the storm grew larger and became even more powerful than anticipated. If the storm had become less severe and smaller.... we would be saying that they should not have cancelled. The benefit of being able to monday morning quarterback.