another gratuitous gratuity question

[GUT2407]

Isn't it amazing how complicated some people try to make cruising? It's supposed to be fun and relaxing..

 

strange isn't it.

 

And add how rude they get if you express a different opinion to their's.

[joybook]

This all gets a bit boring after a while. Let's all just leave the auto-tips on and move on and get on with life. Just add it on to the overall cost of the cruise. It will be a lot easier to handle that way.:)

[flamomo]

As someone who has actually worked onboard for TWO different cruise lines I can tell you much of the speculation/rules etc are not true in terms of firing, pooling cash tips etc. I actually was on a princess cruise just last week and wanted to remove my tips and tip in cash but ended up not doing so. I will also without shame say that my family of four stayed in an inside cabin last year and had a horrible room attendant and we did remove our tips (over $50/day) for the four of us. We had a 2&5 yro with us, never ate in the dining room and I cleaned our room everyday, putting the crib away, making beds, putting the bunk up etc. I took some of that money and gave it to the youth staff who did work hard for us and are not in the tipping pool. Anywhoo...my point is, do what you want. As a former cruise line employee many of you have been duped into believing a bunch of hoopla! Happy cruising to all.

 

 

Questions .... Is your response based on you having actually worked for Princess Cruise Line, as one of the two you say you have worked for??

If you DID work for Princess, was it in a position that received a share of the auto-gratuity funds?

If the answers to both of these is no, then I don't see how you can say for certain what happens to employees re: auto-tip program on Princess ships.

 

I too would NEVER remove the auto-tips and cheat the very hard working crew who provide me with great service and wonderful cruise experiences. And for the many who go above and beyond the norm, I will continue to personally give them an extra tip at the end of every cruise.

[TNTLAMB]

What's "quite disturbing" is the misinformation you stated.

 

First is a link which will quickly give you a better understanding of a government assistance program now known as SNAP f/k/a food stamps:

http://www.cbpp.org/research/a-quick-guide-to-snap-eligibility-and-benefits

 

You describe these workers as "around or below the federal poverty level" and that's just EXACTLY what qualifies them for this government assistance program.

 

If you search on the Internet for "Earned Income Credit" and then visit http://www.healthcare.gov you'll learn about two other important government assistance programs offered to low income earners in the USA.

 

I SINCERELY DOUBT the cruise ship employees have anything similar to these programs in their home country..

 

Next, you completely boggled "TIP ALLOCATION" as it's properly called. That applies only when total tips reported fall below 8% of sales excluding nonallocable receipts. But that whole process only applies to "tipped employees" which is NOT Starbucks, Dunkin Donuts, nor McDonalds. Visit http://www.irs.gov for specifics on this topic.

 

In your initial post you mention these workers in the USA to COMPARE them to the cruise ship workers, that as myself and others are compassionate towards cruise ship workers, that maybe we should also remember our low income workers at home (McD, DD, & SB)

 

Perhaps these workers in the USA might not get the chance for overtime. But the SHARP CONTRAST is the number of hours cruise ship employees are REQUIRED to work. Again, seven days a week.

 

I'm sharing this with you in hopes that you are better informed. I've also included links so that you don't have to just take my word for it.

 

Perhaps with a more accurate understanding you would then care about the food service personnel, contrary to your recent postings. The waitstaff, in particular certainly care because it's their wallet that's being robbed every time someone removes the auto-gratuity.

 

 

Incidentally the federal minimum wage in the US for food service workers or anyone in the hospitality profession where a major portion of their income is tips is slightly north of 2.13 /hr. I can't imagine anybody stiffing someone for tips. Imagine payday in most of our jobs. "I'm sorry but your work this week didn't meet my standards so no paycheck for you."

Edited February 14, 2016 by TNTLAMB

[cruzsnooze]

Going on the Regal Princess soon, I noticed that the latest gratuity charge is $12.95 per person, per day. We like to dispute that charge, get it refunded, then pay the appropriate workers in cash, plus an extra gratuity to the most deserving.

 

Have you ever come across a breakdown for the various workers in amounts per day? For example:

 

housekeeping $5.00

head waiter $4.00

asst waiter...

 

I apologize if this matter has been covered before...

 

Thanks.

 

John

Per person per day

This is Celebrity Cruises breakdown but probably used by many other lines

 

Waiter $3.50

$2 - 2.50 assistant waiter

$3.50 cabin steward

[Husky61]

As someone who has actually worked onboard for TWO different cruise lines I can tell you much of the speculation/rules etc are not true in terms of firing, pooling cash tips etc. I actually was on a princess cruise just last week and wanted to remove my tips and tip in cash but ended up not doing so. I will also without shame say that my family of four stayed in an inside cabin last year and had a horrible room attendant and we did remove our tips (over $50/day) for the four of us. We had a 2&5 yro with us, never ate in the dining room and I cleaned our room everyday, putting the crib away, making beds, putting the bunk up etc. I took some of that money and gave it to the youth staff who did work hard for us and are not in the tipping pool. Anywhoo...my point is, do what you want. As a former cruise line employee many of you have been duped into believing a bunch of hoopla! Happy cruising to all.

 

Well said!:)

[rbt001]

Incidentally the federal minimum wage in the US for food service workers or anyone in the hospitality profession where a major portion of their income is tips is slightly north of 2.13 /hr. I can't imagine anybody stiffing someone for tips. Imagine payday in most of our jobs. "I'm sorry but your work this week didn't meet my standards so no paycheck for you."

 

http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs15.htm

 

The federal minimum wage currently is $7.25/hr for all workers in the USA that earn an hourly wage.

 

However, for "tipped employees" (and there is a definition for this) an employer is permitted to take a "tip credit" of no more than $5.12/hr reducing the required wage to be paid to $2.13/hour, a figure that hasn't changed in quite some time. Mainly this applies to waitstaff, bartenders and bellmen in hotels. It does not apply to kitchen staff, cashiers, baristas, or any workers in a fast food restaurant.

 

The thread ventured here after a poster asked those of us compassionate (with additional gratuities) towards cruise staff service employees if we were just as compassionate at home with non-tipped employees in low income earning positions.

 

BUT none of that applies on cruise ships which are registered outside the USA and not subject to our U.S. Federal Wage and Labor Laws.

[TNTLAMB]

Actually cruise ship workers ARE covered by similar legislation which has been fully implemented in 2012 and covered in the MLC of 2006 Not all countries. Ratified it, but they can not berth in countries that have. Now the wages are related to the UK minimums which are roughly $1.20/hr but include full medical care, room board etc. US labour law is an embarrassment compared to most developed countries. We are the only developed country where a full time worker does not have a living wage or all of its citizens medical care.

 

At least the MLC provides for a living wage and medical care unlike the US. And yes our family is at least as "generous" at home as onboard ship. I have trouble imagining anyone not being so. But then generous has nothing to do with it. It would be the least acceptable action.

Edited February 14, 2016 by TNTLAMB

[mcmarya]

Why does this have to be a state secret? It seems like it would be helpful to everyone concerned if passengers were aware of how the system works--i.e. what happens if someone removes the auto tip and hands out cash.

[pablo222]

That is somewhat my understanding too.....we were just on a 31 day Princess cruise where Princess paid the gratuities.

 

Did you try cancelling the tips?

 

With the credit for a 31 day cruise you could have bought a nice

piece of jewelry, or a watch.

[joybook]

I will say that in all the cruises I have done I have yet to come across a crew member who wanted out. They all want to be there and hope to get their contracts renewed. Surely if they were not paid enough and did not think it was a pretty good life they would not be so anxious to stay in that employment. Their life (including their wages) therefore cannot be too bad.:)

[caribill]

In the Philippines the average physician makes about $550 a month.

 

Your cabin steward from that country probably makes at least that much (plus free room and board) without ten years of college, med school and internship.

 

The average waiter in the Philippines makes about $170 a month.

 

You need to judge the ship's workers' earnings in relation to what they could earn in their own country.

 

(earnings numbers found on the Internet)

[RocketMan275]

We had several conversations with a bartender on our first RCCI cruise. He was on his third contract and planned on doing two more. I guess that's about five years total work time. Perhaps a bit less. He planned to quit after five because he would have saved enough money to build a house in Croatia. I don't know about the rest of the posters here but I didn't make enough money in my first five years of working to build and payoff a house.

 

I notice that none of those complaining about the failure of the cruise lines to pay a "living wage" never stop to define exactly what that "living wage" is. Since the crew is from multiple countries, the "living wage" would vary from country to country. Should a bartender from Croatia receive a different "living wage" than a bartender from England? Or, from Thailand?

Edited February 15, 2016 by RocketMan275

[PrincessLuver]

Did you try cancelling the tips?

 

With the credit for a 31 day cruise you could have bought a nice

piece of jewelry, or a watch.

 

They never had tips on our folio.....they said that Princess was paying them and I am not sure how that works out internally with Princess and the staff....there was nothing to cancel...it was like funny money???? ;)

[fshagan]

In the Philippines the average physician makes about $550 a month.

 

Your cabin steward from that country probably makes at least that much (plus free room and board) without ten years of college, med school and internship.

 

Plus, that physician is paying income taxes on all that money.

 

Your cabin steward from the Philippines pays income taxes on his base salary only, and all tip money from the tip pool is exempt from income tax. Imagine having 80% of your salary exempt from income tax.

 

People asking for the cruise line to just pay him a "fair salary" are asking him to take a huge tax hit.

 

We always tend to think in our own culture's terms, but we have to view the situation from the perspective of the other person's culture. I believe it would be very hard to remove the payment of tips as a large part of the worker's salary as most countries don't tax tips. Punishing those workers so we can feel good about seeing a bill that matches our western preconception of "fairness" is not what any person of good will wants.

[SkyMaster]

If you have the auto tips removed which you can do, you will be viewed as yet another stingy jerk. If you need tips to get the different personnel to perform their jobs, you need to go to another cruise line. May I suggest Carnival where you will be more comfortable.

 

HA! Don't send John to Carnival! They have the same "auto tips" in place, and he'll be a cheap jerk over there too! ;)

 

"SKY

[Husky61]

HA! Don't send John to Carnival! They have the same "auto tips" in place, and he'll be a cheap jerk over there too! ;)

 

"SKY

 

You have to love the name calling of people who have a different opinion about tipping then you.:rolleyes:

[GUT2407]

You have to love the name calling of people who have a different opinion about tipping then you.:rolleyes:

 

 

Every tipping thread turns nasty don't know why the mods dont just ban them.

 

Never seen any good come out of one yet.

 

And if you are from a non-tipping culture and raise questions such as why some get your tips and others don't or if tipping backroom people is so important how do you tip them on land, you should se the names you get called.

 

And when the sky will fall if tips are included in the price starts and you point out that it works fine in some parts of the world well.....???

[Kelownacruiser]

To me, I view the autotip as what it really is, a wage subsidy, and build it into the base cost of my cruise. I then tip additionally for outstanding service to those that are lucky enough to be in a position to receive a cash tip. We're all fortunate enough to live in places that afford us the luxury of going to sea with our families for our vacation. The staff on these cruise ships are not and have to work extremely hard for long stretches at a time away from their families just to provide for them. Some are lucky enough to hold positions where the opportunity to interact with passengers allow them the luxury of receiving cash tips. Many don't and these people are just as responsible for providing me with an outstanding vacation and deserve a portion of the autotip, regardless of how small. Leave autotip on and tip extra, these great people deserve it.

[Pierlesscruisers]

Which country line border?

 

Must be one heck of a drive since there are only 2 countries that border the U.S., huh? :D

 

Tom

[moki'smommy]

We had several conversations with a bartender on our first RCCI cruise. He was on his third contract and planned on doing two more. I guess that's about five years total work time. Perhaps a bit less. He planned to quit after five because he would have saved enough money to build a house in Croatia. I don't know about the rest of the posters here but I didn't make enough money in my first five years of working to build and payoff a house.

 

I notice that none of those complaining about the failure of the cruise lines to pay a "living wage" never stop to define exactly what that "living wage" is. Since the crew is from multiple countries, the "living wage" would vary from country to country. Should a bartender from Croatia receive a different "living wage" than a bartender from England? Or, from Thailand?

 

We had an almost identical experience with a server from Croatia on another line. He was our favorite server ever and we requested him each time we were on that ship. He was trained and licensed as a Ph.D. psychologist in Croatia, but he explained to us that at home he would be lucky to earn $700 per month, which would mean that his wife also had to work and their young kids would be in day care. By working on the ship, his wife could stay home with the children and he could save money to buy their home. On our last cruise with him, he said that he had now purchased the home and was "working for himself" now. He had decided that another year on the ship would give him all the savings he needed. Interestingly, he had been able to negotiate with the cruise line to give him contracts of 4 months working, 2 months off....but then, he was a superior server.

[GUT2407]

Yawn - not again. Just leave the auto tips in place and everyone will be happy.

 

Pretty easy really.

[notentirelynormal]

John you are not new to CC. Have you not seen the many posts about tipping?

 

That was my first thought. Maybe he was bored today or just can't get out of the last century.

[Lucky TGO]

Here we go again it's the same answer from the same people over & over again and again. Give it a rest. Just do what you think is best for you and the crew.

Tony

[UK Cruiser2]

Here we go again it's the same answer from the same people over & over again and again. Give it a rest. Just do what you think is best for you and the crew.

Tony

 

I agree. Leave the auto tips on. Tip more if you want. Live and let live,move on,there's always someone worse off than you. Happy Cruising everyone :)