Does the Koningsdam truly have NO LIBRARY?!

[Hlitner]

I can't help but wonder if those who cite "nostalgia" also prefer to cruise on ships that have no stabilizers, most baths are down the hall, and all lifeboats are open tenders powered by oars! While we do understand the lure of keeping things like they were in the "good ole days" we now even see some HAL cruisers with smartphones. Oh my!

 

Hank

[ski ww]

This post is way beyond what it started as, which was, the K'dam really has no library? Change is good we can't keep living in the past or we'd still be living in log cabins, heating with wood & lighting with candles. Although some times change just for the sake of change is counter productive. If it ain't broken don't fix it. As an example, why change the logo, I liked the old one & the new one doesn't do anything for the brand.

Allan

[RuthC]

Change is good .

Allan

Change is change. Sometimes it's good (your log cabin reference), sometimes it isn't. When it isn't, it's all right to say so, and advocate for improvement.

[bUU]

As an example, why change the logo, I liked the old one & the new one doesn't do anything for the brand.

What did the old logo look like?

 

I've been involved in several rebrandings in my career, and the reasons are typically pretty sound reflections of changes in what drives consumer behaviors.

[ski ww]

Some of the ships still have the old logo on their funnels which was the blue hull bow with the silhouette of the old sailing ship. I guess as they go into refit that will get painted with the new logo.

Allan

[Tennessee Titan]

I personally will not tear my clothes over a picture on the funnel of a ship!

[bUU]

So the difference is the old sailing ship? What could keeping that have possibly added to the brand to attract today's new cruise passengers? :confused:

[ski ww]

I guess we can agree to disagree. Any idea on what the cost is to redesign & reprint & repaint all those new logos? That money could be spent on other things. You're right it makes no difference. Just the old one was pleasing to the eye, it is the history of HAL, bringing immigrants from the old world to the new.

Allan

[bUU]

I guess we can agree to disagree.

Absolutely.

 

Any idea on what the cost is to redesign & reprint & repaint all those new logos? That money could be spent on other things.

I'm sure that the cruise line knows, and understands it as a marketing expense. If you're not a marketing person, practically every penny they spend seems strange and evokes a feeling that it could be better spent some other way, yet companies with the best marketing (read: Apple) also are the ones that can generate the most revenue to keep the development and operations sides of the houses top-notch as well.

 

You're right it makes no difference. Just the old one was pleasing to the eye, it is the history of HAL, bringing immigrants from the old world to the new.

A bit of imagery that may have negative impact on as many new cruise customers as it evokes pleasure within legacy cruise customers.

[Topsham]

The 'old' logo dates back to 1938. It represented the new flagship NIEUW AMSTERDAM. Very stylish and showed the massive bow of the NIEUW AMSTERDAM

[bUU]

Actually in my research about this I just learned the logo used previously was introduced in 1986. It obviously had some aspects similar to logos of the past, including the 1938 logo, but as you'd expect the logo has changed regularly over the decades.

[Topsham]

The 'old' logo dates back to 1938. It represented the new flagship NIEUW AMSTERDAM. Very stylish and showed the massive bow of the NIEUW AMSTERDAM and at sea shows the 1609 ship HALVE MAEN (Half Moon). HALVE MAEN is the ship of Navigator/Explorer Henry Hudson. The logo represents 400 years of ships, travel, passengers and the peoples of The Netherlands and America.

 

The logo has been changed very little depending the purpose of use. Might be in blue on the white funnel (from 1983 with the new NIEUW AMSTERDAM) or might be used on brochures like the grey and white, sometime in white/green/ black. The colour tiles made in majolica is my own design based on the HAL logo. It hangs on board one of the Vista Class.

 

The new logo does not represent the old NIEUW AMSTERDAM and the HALVE MAEN is not even shows at all. At first glimpse it appears to be the same (without the HALVE MAEN) but it is quite different. It now appears to be represents a bow and two funnels of one of the Vista Class. It does not seem to represent the new ships like EURODAM, NIEUW AMSTERDAM or KONINGSDAM. In fact I'm not quite what it is supposed to be represent at all! At a distance it is very hard to tell from before. Just a blue disc on a white funnel.

 

A simple 'ship' on a funnel is nothing new. The Holland America Line logo is very stylish and has lots of nostalgia and pride. I have seen worse... try out the logo/funnel that was for Premier Cruises. Ugg! A few months ago I was disembarking and I could count no fewer that three trucks with 'ship' logos on the sides, all bringing ships provisions and one was the ship's port agent!

 

The old HAL logo means lots more than just a splash of paint or a little oval on the cover of a brochure. The new logo... well, a look at the brochures and they can hardly see the logo and if you can see it in a photo of the ship you have to be extra keen to see it. There was a time that you could see that logo on EVERYTHING!

 

OK... end of the history lesson! :eek:

 

Stephen

[Topsham]

In the beginning Holland America Line had black funnels with three bands of green, white and green. These colours are those of the City of Rotterdam, the white stripe represents the River Maas and the green is the banks on the river. In 1898 the funnel could been at distance that appeared to be all black with a white stripe and that was the American Line. At that time was during the Spanish American War so HAL changed to the base colour to yellow-buff.

 

In 1971 HAL went for new funnel colour of orange with three 'waves' in blue/white/blue. In 1983 the orange base colour to change all white and the three 'waves' were all dark blue. It lasted only three years before they used the Na AMSTERDAM/HALVE MAEN on the funnel.

 

You can logos for sure, but is it necessary? Carnival Cruise Lines seems to be quite happy for almost 50 years. I can't see that every changes. Cunard? Their red and black has been in use for 156 years. Costa? Same yellow and blue with a few changes that no one seems to understand. My old company, J&J Denholm had a white flag with a 'blue diamond' going back to 1860. That flag, known is the 'DIAMOND D' is unchanged.

 

 

Stephen

[AV8rix]

The old HAL logo means lots more than just a splash of paint or a little oval on the cover of a brochure. The new logo... well, a look at the brochures and they can hardly see the logo and if you can see it in a photo of the ship you have to be extra keen to see it. There was a time that you could see that logo on EVERYTHING!

 

OK... end of the history lesson! :eek:

 

Stephen

 

Thank you, Captain Card! It's what I was thinking from the first time I saw it. As I've said before, I still can't imagine why the corporation thought that the "ghost" of the Halve Maen was so damaging to the brand.

[innlady1]

For those of you who are not aware of Captain Stephen Card ("Topsham"), I'd suggest looking at his website. beyond ships dot com. He's a remarkable person and a huge asset to Cruise Critic.

 

He attended a Meet and Greet I arranged on the Veendam in May of 2015 (Boston to Bermuda) and was a wealth of interesting information for those who attended...the high light of our M & G!

 

I've always enjoyed his incredible artwork throughout the Noordam. He also does the painting for the tile coasters given to Mariners on every cruise. In addition to his marine art for Holland America, his work is displayed on Cunard, Costa, and Saga.

 

An extremely talented and knowledgeable person and a huge asset to Cruise Critic!

 

Thank you, Topsham, for the enlightening HAL history lesson. I always enjoy those!

Edited December 20, 2016 by innlady1

[AtlantaCruiser72]

Since we are wildly off-topic with regards to the logo .....

 

The new logo is a slightly more stylized version of the previous ship. The elimination of the sailing vessel makes the overall image cleaner and more modern. This fits in with the current managements seeming philosophy towards offering new destination and culturally enriching experiences and relying less on the history of the brand.

 

The addition of partnerships with BBC, Lincoln Center Stage, Billboard, BB King, America's Test Kitchen, AFAR magazine and so on also support the more forward look of the brand.

 

This ties in with corporate looking at areas of the vessel that have less relevance to their target demographic, which increasingly is younger, active, experience oriented Boomers and Gen-X'ers. Ballroom dance and quiet libraries have less appeal for many in those market segments.

 

My mom is 68 and I'm 44 - while I love standards and Big Band music, and she does as well, we are both MUCH more likely to spend an evening at BB Kings than the Ocean Bar. We are also both much more likely to pre-load our Kindles with a large selection of books we are interested in reading than relying on a ships library for supplying reading materials. We prefer the flexibility of open seating and choosing our own dining companions if we wish to share a table.

 

If there are more whose habits are similar to ours than not then HAL will, and seemingly has, adjusted the onboard product to fit the lifestyle of it's target consumer base. HAL must evolve to survive in a VERY competetive travel market. The trick is how far to evolve and how fast :cool:

Edited December 20, 2016 by AtlantaCruiser72

[Himself]

there is no library like the ones on other hal ships ... There is a very small area with some travel books and games that is all ... It's an alcove off the cafe and crows nest. By the end of our cruise passengers had started leaving their used books there for others which was a godsend to those of us expecting literature to be available as usual.

 

 

this is correct

[bUU]

Since we are wildly off-topic with regards to the logo .....

 

The new logo is a slightly more stylized version of the previous ship. The elimination of the sailing vessel makes the overall image cleaner and more modern. This fits in with the current managements seeming philosophy towards offering new destination and culturally enriching experiences and relying less on the history of the brand.

 

The addition of partnerships with BBC, Lincoln Center Stage, Billboard, BB King, America's Test Kitchen, AFAR magazine and so on also support the more forward look of the brand.

 

This ties in with corporate looking at areas of the vessel that have less relevance to their target demographic, which increasingly is younger, active, experience oriented Boomers and Gen-X'ers. Ballroom dance and quiet libraries have less appeal for many in those market segments.

 

My mom is 68 and I'm 44 - while I love standards and Big Band music, and she does as well, we are both MUCH more likely to spend an evening at BB Kings than the Ocean Bar. We are also both much more likely to pre-load our Kindles with a large selection of books we are interested in reading than relying on a ships library for supplying reading materials. We prefer the flexibility of open seating and choosing our own dining companions if we wish to share a table.

 

If there are more whose habits are similar to ours than not then HAL will, and seemingly has, adjusted the onboard product to fit the lifestyle of it's target consumer base. HAL must evolve to survive in a VERY competetive travel market. The trick is how far to evolve and how fast :cool:

 

Precisely right. Change happens regularly. How much each change should be depends on how much change there has been otherwise.

[VennDiagram]

For those of you who are not aware of Captain Stephen Card ("Topsham"), I'd suggest looking at his website. beyond ships dot com. He's a remarkable person and a huge asset to Cruise Critic.

 

He attended a Meet and Greet I arranged on the Veendam in May of 2015 (Boston to Bermuda) and was a wealth of interesting information for those who attended...the high light of our M & G!

 

I've always enjoyed his incredible artwork throughout the Noordam. He also does the painting for the tile coasters given to Mariners on every cruise. In addition to his marine art for Holland America, his work is displayed on Cunard, Costa, and Saga.

 

An extremely talented and knowledgeable person and a huge asset to Cruise Critic!

 

Thank you, Topsham, for the enlightening HAL history lesson. I always enjoy those!

 

Now I'm glad I came back to read more of this thread. Thank you for this post :) That is fascinating information. Topsham thank you for all the art you've created, we have enjoyed your paintings many times!

[RuthC]

Now I'm glad I came back to read more of this thread. Thank you for this post :) That is fascinating information. Topsham thank you for all the art you've created, we have enjoyed your paintings many times!

If you find the art connection fascinating, did you also know that the "Captain" part of "Captain Stephen Card" is not honorary?

He's been a real ship's captain, so knows what he's talking about in that regard, as well.

[innlady1]

If you find the art connection fascinating, did you also know that the "Captain" part of "Captain Stephen Card" is not honorary?

He's been a real ship's captain, so knows what he's talking about in that regard, as well.

 

A Google search brings up details on Captain Card's most interesting life and career. I happen to think his marine art is among the best today.

Edited December 20, 2016 by innlady1

[onthegogirl]

Not meaning to be snarky, but why can't you just bring your own book?

 

Weight constraints on airlines.

[ski ww]

In the beginning Holland America Line had black funnels with three bands of green, white and green. These colours are those of the City of Rotterdam, the white stripe represents the River Maas and the green is the banks on the river. In 1898 the funnel could been at distance that appeared to be all black with a white stripe and that was the American Line. At that time was during the Spanish American War so HAL changed to the base colour to yellow-buff.

 

In 1971 HAL went for new funnel colour of orange with three 'waves' in blue/white/blue. In 1983 the orange base colour to change all white and the three 'waves' were all dark blue. It lasted only three years before they used the Na AMSTERDAM/HALVE MAEN on the funnel.

 

You can logos for sure, but is it necessary? Carnival Cruise Lines seems to be quite happy for almost 50 years. I can't see that every changes. Cunard? Their red and black has been in use for 156 years. Costa? Same yellow and blue with a few changes that no one seems to understand. My old company, J&J Denholm had a white flag with a 'blue diamond' going back to 1860. That flag, known is the 'DIAMOND D' is unchanged.

 

 

Stephen

 

Thank you vey much for the history lesson. It's a sad day when you don't learn something. I do enjoy your nautical pictures on board ship and did not know who the artist was.

Allan

[Hlitner]

I am another fan of Stephen Card's art and find myself looking for his paintings whenever we are on any HAL ship.

 

Hank

[OceanTraveller4ever]

No one said you were the only one.

 

You're being mean again.

 

Not mean.... just disappointed.

 

You're being judgmental again, as usual :)