Does the Koningsdam truly have NO LIBRARY?!

[dot73]

And how amazing the cello/sailing ship model

 

 

Sent from my iPod touch using Forums

 

Loved it. It truly is a great piece of art, IMHO. Art is supposed to bring out different emotions in different people.

[dot73]

I liked the picture of the zebra that morphed into the piano keys or visa versa. It was in one if the stairwells.

Definitely one of my favourites. Every day I would find a piece of art that I either loved, was ambivalent about, or just shook my head at. Overall, I really enjoyed the art on the K-Dam.

[dot73]

Every time we walked by The Blend on the Kdam, it was always empty. So, we always commented that maybe HAL could turn that tiny space into a library - at least until they had a chance to figure out a bigger place for an adequate sized one.

 

Overall, I enjoyed my K-Dam cruise but the "upscale" items on the ship, such as the wine tasting, merchandise, etc., were out of my league. This is the first time that I did not spend any money on t-shirts, beachwear, etc., as most everything was way overpriced especially for us Canadians who have to add 35% to the US dollar. A simple cotton blouse caught my eye but it took my breath away when I saw the $175 price tag. :eek: I never saw the shops or the liquor and/or wine tasting rooms ever busy. Most of the shop staff were standing in the doors listening to BB King performance.

[jtl513]

The promenade deck does not appeal to me at all but looking at the lifeboats, I now totally understand how in a serious emergency it would be much easier to get people on the lifeboats and perhaps save lives.

I don't think the lifeboats can be loaded as they are mounted, and don't think there would be a significant difference from prior ships in the time it would take to lower and prep them for loading.

 

 

 

Every day I would find a piece of art that I either loved, was ambivalent about, or just shook my head at. Overall, I really enjoyed the art on the K-Dam.

I didn't care for a lot of it. Maybe even most of it. I liked the holographic deer

 

and the lacework sculptures

 

 

and just so others can see the cello-ship (which I also liked.)

 

So I guess I liked the "tamer" stuff!

Edited December 15, 2016 by jtl513

[jtl513]

and a couple more things I liked:

 

 

Edited December 15, 2016 by jtl513

[dot73]

I think I read that these updated lifeboats can still be utilized even if the ship is listing. One of the problems with the Concordia lifeboats is that they could not be lowered once the ship was listing and so many passengers had to jump off the ship or be rescued in other ways.

 

I also loved the promenades where you could sit on the nice wooden lounges and enjoy watching the sea and usually fall asleep. However, there are still many HAL ships to choose from that have this type of promenade. For me, the promenade or the lack of a library are not deal breakers as the K-Dam has some other great features.

 

I also liked the art you picked out but I have a feeling there is still a lot I didn't notice on his first K-Dam cruise. I still love the old Singer machine the best. I wish someone in my family had kept it when grandma died instead of giving it away.

[bUU]

and the lacework sculptures

 

Thanks for posting these. They're wonderful. Edited December 15, 2016 by bUU

[Tennessee Titan]

I have to note first that this WAS a "no libraries" thread. That said, it is quite amazing how it has morphed from a "no art on the ship" to pages of art discussion and pictures...

[VennDiagram]

I have to note first that this WAS a "no libraries" thread. That said, it is quite amazing how it has morphed from a "no art on the ship" to pages of art discussion and pictures...

 

Thread drift is pretty common on internet forums such as this. If you have a problem with a particular post, the best approach is to hit the red triangle and ask a moderator to review that post.

[jtl513]

Thread drift is pretty common on internet forums such as this.

Yup! Once the basic question/topic has been covered adequately (usually in the first 20 posts or less) then all bets are off! ;) In this case the thread was started 7 months ago and died out in 18 days ... only to be resurrected a week ago.

[kazu]

I have to note first that this WAS a "no libraries" thread. That said, it is quite amazing how it has morphed from a "no art on the ship" to pages of art discussion and pictures...

 

Some people are curious about this ship. While the purpose of the post from over a year ago has drifted, it's all about the King. What's the problem?

[OceanTraveller4ever]

Some people are curious about this ship. While the purpose of the post from over a year ago has drifted, it's all about the King. What's the problem?

 

Exactly....a discussion can vary as long as the main target is still the issue.

 

No one should dictate discussions on this board, as long as they are relevant one way or another.

 

This is about the Kdam lacunae, etc.

 

Bottom line....some folks like it, some do not.....

 

The disturbing thing is the design directions HAL is following... That is the real issue.

Edited December 16, 2016 by OceanTraveller4ever

[jtl513]

Exactly....a discussion can vary as long as the main target is still the issue.

 

No one should dictate discussions on this board, as long as they are relevant one way or another.

 

This is about the Kdam lacunae, etc.

 

Bottom line....some folks like it, some do not.....

 

The disturbing thing is the design directions HAL is following... That is the real issue.

Right. It's not just the lack of a decent promenade or library, it's the total package - all chrome/white/gray/black, modern art instead of antiques and ship paintings, etc - that makes it a deal-breaker for me. Just not the HAL I love.

 

p.s. - ya made me look up lacunae. :D

[RuthC]

Right. It's not just the lack of a decent promenade or library, it's the total package - all chrome/white/gray/black, modern art instead of antiques and ship paintings, etc - that makes it a deal-breaker for me. Just not the HAL I love.

Even now, with the Koningsdam, people have posted it is more like Celebrity than Holland America.

 

With the dramatic changes from previous ships on the Koningsdam, and refurbs on older ships that are more in line with this one, added to the projected loss of the older ships sooner rather than later, at some point the HAL we have known will cease to exist.

I almost expect the name of the cruise line to be changed soon.

[bUU]

The "departing" Holland America that some folks are mourning was once the newfangled changes that displaced what used to be what Holland America was prior to that.

Edited December 16, 2016 by bUU

[kazu]

The "departing" Holland America that some folks are mourning was once the newfangled changes that displaced what used to be what Holland America was prior to that.

 

Huh??? I've been sailing HAL since 1988. Back then they were known for good service, libraries, walk around promenade deck, lots of public space to relax in to name a few. That has been a standing hallmark of HAL since then.

 

So, the changes that some are mourning are truly hallmarks of HAL disappearing IMO.

[bUU]

Huh??? I've been sailing HAL since 1988. Back then they were known for good service, libraries, walk around promenade deck, lots of public space to relax in to name a few. That has been a standing hallmark of HAL since then.

Are you claiming that Holland America was completely consistent, with nothing added or removed or changed, for thirty years, and now suddenly it is massively different? :confused:

[EDLOS]

are you claiming that holland america was completely consistent, with nothing added or removed or changed, for thirty years, and now suddenly it is massively different? :confused:

 

yes !

[Topsham]

I think I read that these updated lifeboats can still be utilized even if the ship is listing. One of the problems with the Concordia lifeboats is that they could not be lowered once the ship was listing and so many passengers had to jump off the ship or be rescued in other ways.

 

.

 

 

The boats on KODM... or other any other ship the boats must be turned out and lowered to the deck edge to start embarking. Higher positions like on the S Class, Vista Class etc are different but the boats must still be lowered the deck edge to be ready for embarkation. The time required of turning boats out and ready to start embarkation is a matter of minutes.

 

If the ship is listing it is still to lower the boats. There are skates or slides on each boats and they will ride down the side of the ship. However, the maximum list possible is about 20 degrees.

 

CONCORDIA. On her sinking note that ALL of her lifeboats were successfully launched. There are reasons why people went overboard but that was because of the delay of launching, not from any fault of the equipment.

 

Anyhow, back to the art on board...

[dot73]

The boats on KODM... or other any other ship the boats must be turned out and lowered to the deck edge to start embarking. Higher positions like on the S Class, Vista Class etc are different but the boats must still be lowered the deck edge to be ready for embarkation. The time required of turning boats out and ready to start embarkation is a matter of minutes.

If the ship is listing it is still to lower the boats. There are skates or slides on each boats and they will ride down the side of the ship. However, the maximum list possible is about 20 degrees.

CONCORDIA. On her sinking note that ALL of her lifeboats were successfully launched. There are reasons why people went overboard but that was because of the delay of launching, not from any fault of the equipment.

 

Anyhow, back to the art on board...

 

Thank you for the explanation. I'm no expert but have heard various reasons for the K-Dam's lifeboats' position. In your opinion, was it done for improved safety or to give the ship more inside pubic areas. i.e. more ways to generate income? Are other new built ships also changing the location of their lifeboats? BTW, now that I have sailed on this ship, I can agree that unless it was done for safety reasons, the change in the promenade really sucks. However, for me, it's not important enough not to sail on this ship again. I definitely need to go back and check out the rest of the art I didn't get to see in 10 days. :D

[runnerodb83]

Huh??? I've been sailing HAL since 1988. Back then they were known for good service, libraries, walk around promenade deck, lots of public space to relax in to name a few. That has been a standing hallmark of HAL since then.

 

So, the changes that some are mourning are truly hallmarks of HAL disappearing IMO.

 

HAL of 1988 is not HAL of the late 90s, 2000s, or today. While Carnival ownership has stayed hands off with many more HAL aspects than not, its undeniable that libraries, walk around promenades, and large public spaces do not earn money. It's been said many times around these forums that in 1988 the adjusted cost to cruise was much higher in 2016 dollars than it is today. If carnival had not purchased HAL they might have gone out of business or still be sailing the older vessels - most of which are gone from HAL today - and theywould not be able to compete with Celebrity, Princess (not really a competitor, more sibling rivalry i guess), and well - thats about it. The upper mid market cruiser is a shrinking demographic which is being squeezed out by entry level cruises on Carnival, RCI, and NCL, and higher quality premium cruises on Oceana, Crystal, etc and the void between is large.

[AtlantaCruiser72]

HAL of 1988 is not HAL of the late 90s, 2000s, or today. While Carnival ownership has stayed hands off with many more HAL aspects than not, its undeniable that libraries, walk around promenades, and large public spaces do not earn money. It's been said many times around these forums that in 1988 the adjusted cost to cruise was much higher in 2016 dollars than it is today. If carnival had not purchased HAL they might have gone out of business or still be sailing the older vessels - most of which are gone from HAL today - and theywould not be able to compete with Celebrity, Princess (not really a competitor, more sibling rivalry i guess), and well - thats about it. The upper mid market cruiser is a shrinking demographic which is being squeezed out by entry level cruises on Carnival, RCI, and NCL, and higher quality premium cruises on Oceana, Crystal, etc and the void between is large.

 

Looking at HAL's 1997/98 Caribbean brochure the low season "early booking" fare on the then new Veendam for a 7 night eastern Caribbean for a category H fully obstructed view room was $1109pp inclusive of port charges and taxes on th 12/7/97 sailing. Adjust for inflation that is $1667 in 2016 dollars.

 

For a similar sailing on the Eurodam for 12/10/18 HAL is offering a fully obstructed category H for $994pp inclusive of port charges and taxes. That's nearly 40% LESS on an inflationary adjusted basis for a similar cruise :eek: for the same grade of accommodation.

 

You can even get a signature suite on the 12/10/18 sailing for $1744pp include of port and tax. That's only $77 more (adjusted for inflation) as compared to an obstructed view in 1997!

 

Does anyone still wonder why cruise lines are pushing ancillary revenues so much, and why non revenue generating spaces like libraries, card rooms, promenade decks, etc are going the way of the DoDo bird? Same with shipboard positions like librarians, dance hosts, bridge instructors, etc.

 

Unless people are wiling to pay extra (or substantially higher base cruise fares) to retain those services/amenities they are gonna go away.

 

 

PS - yes I DO have cruise brochures going back to the mid 90's and back then brochure "early saver" fares were pretty spot on for what one would pay in general.

Edited December 17, 2016 by AtlantaCruiser72

[bUU]

And this isn't a Holland America specific thing. There are myriad example of it on airlines, destination resorts, etc.

[Topsham]

Thank you for the explanation. I'm no expert but have heard various reasons for the K-Dam's lifeboats' position. In your opinion, was it done for improved safety or to give the ship more inside pubic areas. i.e. more ways to generate income? Are other new built ships also changing the location of their lifeboats? BTW, now that I have sailed on this ship, I can agree that unless it was done for safety reasons, the change in the promenade really sucks. However, for me, it's not important enough not to sail on this ship again. I definitely need to go back and check out the rest of the art I didn't get to see in 10 days. :D

 

Dot,

 

Sorry. The reason for placing the boats is completely for reasons of economy. Firstly, the boats now occupy 75% of the deck space that was before a Promenade Deck. If the boats on KODM were raised we would have a full width of Prom Deck. That space was not generating any revenue. If the boats were raised.. as in the VISTA Class they would block the view whole row of balcony cabins that would behind. That means that would lower the 'value' of those cabins. There is no safety issue with this at all, it is completely to owner requirements. There are new ships coming on line that are being built with boats is raised davits in order the have open promenade decks. Two of the most 'perfect' new ships VIKING STAR and VIKING SEA. Raised boats and open prom deck. The two new ships for Saga are doing the same.

 

Safety Drills. Well we now come to the 'new' system of the Safety Drills. We now muster inside and not out on deck. There is nothing new about this at all. QE2 from 47 years ago drills were done inside, not out on deck. Ships like the VIKING ships will be able to have drills inside and have also the ability to change, in an emergency, go straight out to the deck then into the boats.

 

I don't think KONINGSDAM is a 'bad' ship. It all depends what we like or don't like. I am sure a lot of HAL passengers will never go in KODM and I'm sure there are a lot passengers might choose to cruise ONLY with KODM. Lots of choices. Years ago I used to cruise in the old ROTTERDAM and did not bother with the old WESTERDAM, NOORDAM and Nw AMSTERDAM. I thought they were not up to the same 'standard' as the old ROTTERDAM. Eventually I did sail on the other ships and I sure miss them now!

 

Stephen

[Topsham]

[quote name=RuthC

 

at some point the HAL we have known will cease to exist.

I almost expect the name of the cruise line to be changed soon. QUOTE]

 

 

 

Hello Ruth.. and Merry Christmas!

 

Changing the name of HAL? Well yes, that is always a possibility.

 

Back in the days... a LOT of days ago we used to have Chandris Cruises. In 1980 they changed to the brand name to Chandris FANTASY Cruises. In 1988 Chandris took the s.s. Galileo and renamed her s.s. Meridian to become more 'upmarket' with the new name Chandris CELEBRITY Cruises. Not much later the name Chandris was dropped completely. A shame. Well we know Celebrity Cruises, the name means nothing to me, but at least the old Chandris funnel mark is still there with the big white 'X'. I doubt if 99.9 of the passengers know what it stand for! 'X' is the Greek letter for 'Chi'.... and so Chandris.

 

Have a good cruise... may your next one be a REAL good one!

 

Stephen