Does the Koningsdam truly have NO LIBRARY?!

[bUU]

Changing the name of HAL? Well yes, that is always a possibility.

An interesting thought, and along the lines of your fascinating relaying of the evolution of the name of Celebrity Cruises, I think we can see why such a change would be effected: Brands are all about creating a story within which the customer wants to see themselves. "Celebrity" evokes a sense of pampered immoderation while Chandris doesn't. Holland America as a brand fights against two detriments: an association to Holland that doesn't substantially feed into the story of Antarctic cruises, Caribbean cruises, New England cruises, Alaska cruises, etc.; and (of course) an association to a reputation as appealing to a more limited (read: older) age range.

 

However, changing a brand name is a ridiculously risky sacrifice of valuable name recognition. I think there's enough impetus to remedy the reputation rather than effectively start from a clean sheet with some other brand. The Holland aspect is not a real detriment (as Royal Caribbean can attest), and Holland in general evokes positive feelings as much as most national identities. And the changes we've seen, the retirement of eponymous formal nights, the gradual evolution toward entertainment that appeals more so to prime demographics, and the passage of time itself, combine to address the reputation issue.

 

I think it was earlier in this thread that someone new to cruising only recently learned that Holland America passengers skew older, so the reputation is fostered to a great extent by those-in-the-know relaying it, not by a default perception in the minds of potential new customers. Just looking at their promotional materials you see a clear effort to present either middle-aged folks, or show middle-aged folks with "older" folks, who are impossibly young-looking "older" people still younger than I am! <g> The only photo on their website that I could find within which the only person discernible had grey hair was one of a bartender. I think it would be interesting to see a survey of those who are considering their first cruise with regard to their initial impression of the various cruise lines: I wouldn't be surprised if less than half pick out Holland America as the one for older folks.

Edited December 17, 2016 by bUU

[Topsham]

A few years ago everyone that that the name COSTA would be gone. Still with us and makes not a difference a jot. Now, if some office boy comes up with a new name, and a fancy tile and high pay packet for himself, all it takes for some CEO to buy it!

[bUU]

A few years ago everyone that that the name COSTA would be gone. Still with us and makes not a difference a jot.

By the same token, ValuJet was gone as a brand just as soon as they could buy AirTran's parent. So there is precedent for incidents to bring down a brand.

[RuthC]

Hello Ruth.. and Merry Christmas!

 

Changing the name of HAL? Well yes, that is always a possibility.

 

Back in the days... a LOT of days ago we used to have Chandris Cruises. In 1980 they changed to the brand name to Chandris FANTASY Cruises. In 1988 Chandris took the s.s. Galileo and renamed her s.s. Meridian to become more 'upmarket' with the new name Chandris CELEBRITY Cruises. Not much later the name Chandris was dropped completely. A shame. Well we know Celebrity Cruises, the name means nothing to me, but at least the old Chandris funnel mark is still there with the big white 'X'. I doubt if 99.9 of the passengers know what it stand for! 'X' is the Greek letter for 'Chi'.... and so Chandris.

 

Have a good cruise... may your next one be a REAL good one!

 

Stephen

Merry Christmas to you, too, Stephen. I wish you health and happy cruising in the new year.

 

As it happens I did sail on Chandris (or Chandris Fantasy, don't remember which; it was in 1982), and from everything I have read that cruise was quite different from anything Celebrity puts out. It was on the Britannis, which felt not only very old, but very dirty, at the time. Of course I had a good time, as that's what I do, but it was not something I would want to repeat.

The change in name does evoke a much different feeling in me.

 

I am sure my next cruise WILL be a real good one---I'm booked next on the Prinsendam! :D

[dot73]

Stephen, thank you for the information on the lifeboats. I guess it is now always about the money. It's a shame that some people will not try the K-Dam because of the lack of a proper promenade deck because otherwise, it is a beautiful ship.

[cruisemom42]

While there is logic to much of what's been said about HAL and the changes onboard the HAL fleet, it may be worthwhile to stop and reflect that this board is home to many HAL lovers who've sailed their favorite line for many years. It's only natural to lament changes to things that one liked and enjoyed or that made one feel at home. Nostalgia is not only found on cruise boards....

 

While the head may understand that cruising (at least the more main-stream cruising) is headed in a different direction in order to survive, the heart may wish for the clock to stand still.

 

It seems kind of silly to pick on people for waxing nostalgic on a board of HAL lovers.

 

Several things that are greatly important to a lot of HAL cruisers don't really matter to me. But I understand the need to vent frustrations when things change.

[AV8rix]

While there is logic to much of what's been said about HAL and the changes onboard the HAL fleet, it may be worthwhile to stop and reflect that this board is home to many HAL lovers who've sailed their favorite line for many years. It's only natural to lament changes to things that one liked and enjoyed or that made one feel at home. Nostalgia is not only found on cruise boards....

 

While the head may understand that cruising (at least the more main-stream cruising) is headed in a different direction in order to survive, the heart may wish for the clock to stand still.

 

It seems kind of silly to pick on people for waxing nostalgic on a board of HAL lovers.

 

Several things that are greatly important to a lot of HAL cruisers don't really matter to me. But I understand the need to vent frustrations when things change.

 

Well said! Doubt that anything more could be added...but on this forum I'm certain that someone will :)

[bUU]

While there is logic to much of what's been said about HAL and the changes onboard the HAL fleet, it may be worthwhile to stop and reflect that this board is home to many HAL lovers who've sailed their favorite line for many years. It's only natural to lament changes to things that one liked and enjoyed or that made one feel at home. Nostalgia is not only found on cruise boards....

 

While the head may understand that cruising (at least the more main-stream cruising) is headed in a different direction in order to survive, the heart may wish for the clock to stand still.

 

It seems kind of silly to pick on people for waxing nostalgic on a board of HAL lovers.

 

Several things that are greatly important to a lot of HAL cruisers don't really matter to me. But I understand the need to vent frustrations when things change.

 

Well said. We can recognize, though, a difference between venting frustrations and going too far by demonizing those who don't share such frustrations for not sharing those frustrations. Just as it is silly to pick on people for waxing nostalgic, it is equally silly to pick on people for not sharing that sentiment. The middle road is a good place to be.

 

For myself, especially the days, I find nostalgia to be a liability, something to work to avoid - an attachment almost surely to slip away from me. I watched my father struggle with the changing times, how more and more life just didn't make sense to him; and I watched my late mother work diligently to keep up with the times, learning to appreciate the never-ending array of new experiences, new types of music, etc. She became that prototypical modern grandmother. I learned from my parents' remarkably different life experiences which way I wanted to live.

 

I had the great opportunity to have a niece move in with us for a while, recently. It punctuated how I was falling behind a bit. I better get on that.

[Bookited]

I can't speak for the Volendam but on the Westerdam in October, the library still existed but there was no librarian. I've read on another thread that the librarian position is being eliminated. One signed books out on a piece of paper. When books were returned, they were stacked until another entertainment staff member could reshelve them. There was no order to the books. I think they might have been put in the correct section but they were not in any order beyond that; they were simply shoved in an empty spot. Elimination of the librarian position is a very disappointing cutback, IMO.

 

On the same cruise with Alberta Quilter I spent the first two days looking for the librarian. Part of my cruise ritual is going to the library at 9 AM to get the daily quiz and Sudoku. I was told to go to the front desk if I needed the librarian. The front desk staff told me it was a corporate decision to eliminate the librarian and the cost of printing for the puzzles. HELLO: how many sheets of paper go in the recycle daily from each cabin regarding spa and jewelry specials...and the never ending art auctions?

[EDLOS]

on the same cruise with alberta quilter i spent the first two days looking for the librarian. Part of my cruise ritual is going to the library at 9 am to get the daily quiz and sudoku. I was told to go to the front desk if i needed the librarian. The front desk staff told me it was a corporate decision to eliminate the librarian and the cost of printing for the puzzles. Hello: How many sheets of paper go in the recycle daily from each cabin regarding spa and jewelry specials...and the never ending art auctions?

 

amen !

[innlady1]

A few years ago everyone that that the name COSTA would be gone. Still with us and makes not a difference a jot. Now, if some office boy comes up with a new name, and a fancy tile and high pay packet for himself, all it takes for some CEO to buy it!

 

Hello and Merry Christmas to you, Stephen! I hope things are well in Bermuda. I remember fondly the time you spoke at our Meet and Greet on the Veendam Bermuda cruise in May of '15. That was a highlight of the M & G!

[innlady1]

A few years ago everyone that that the name COSTA would be gone. Still with us and makes not a difference a jot. Now, if some office boy comes up with a new name, and a fancy tile and high pay packet for himself, all it takes for some CEO to buy it!

 

Hello and Merry Christmas to you, Stephen! I hope things are well in Bermuda. I remember fondly the time you spoke at our Meet and Greet on the Veendam Bermuda cruise in May of '15. About Bermuda, your experience as a ship captain, and about your paintings on many Holland America ships.

 

That was a highlight of the M & G!

[OceanTraveller4ever]

On the same cruise with Alberta Quilter I spent the first two days looking for the librarian. Part of my cruise ritual is going to the library at 9 AM to get the daily quiz and Sudoku. I was told to go to the front desk if I needed the librarian. The front desk staff told me it was a corporate decision to eliminate the librarian and the cost of printing for the puzzles. HELLO: how many sheets of paper go in the recycle daily from each cabin regarding spa and jewelry specials...and the never ending art auctions?

 

Did HAL stop the Sudoku handouts. Please tell me that isn't so. That was also part of my daily routine.....sheeshh.....

Then there is all the unwanted paper spam they jam in our cabin mail boxes..:(

[bUU]

Yet, hundreds of those are fully paid for by just one passenger making a purchase.

[OceanTraveller4ever]

Yet, hundreds of those are fully paid for by just one passenger making a purchase.

 

Hundreds of what, with what purchase?

 

Hope you mean books :) Sudoku/quizz sheets are super cheap, but HAL deigned them superfluous I guess.....not a cost thing, just a stupid decision thing.....

[cruising cockroach]

It would seem that HAL (and by extension Carnival Corp.) wants every passenger activity and space to be revenue generating. Anything that isn't goes overboard.

 

On her 1st HAL cruise in nearly 30 years 4 years go, my wife liked attending craft activities where HAL supplied nice crafting supplies. Fast forward 2 years later on the next cruise, the only crafting supplies "offered" by HAL were waste paper and the crew member hosting the classes had to supply glue out of her own pocket and other supplies such a brushes (and pleaded for pax to return all the stuff at the end of classes). Needless to say, she only attended just one more class on a 22-night voyage just to confirm that things were that pathetic.

 

I imagine Sudoku puzzles may be offered in the future as a paid subscription activity.

 

The trivia quizzes (I haven't sailed HAL long enough to notice any downgrades but understand winners used to get something better than leftover pins) may end up like Bingo - pay to play.

[bUU]

Hundreds of what, with what purchase?

Spa services and jewelry.

 

Hope you mean books :) Sudoku/quizz sheets are super cheap, but HAL deigned them superfluous I guess.....not a cost thing, just a stupid decision thing.....

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it is a stupid decision.

[Topsham]

Yet, hundreds of those are fully paid for by just one passenger making a purchase.

 

 

Very true.

 

How about the librarian? If just one passenger books a cruise BECAUSE there IS a library and a librarian then that has added 'revenue'. Best of all... ALL the other passengers get to use that facility as well. Win, Win.

[Topsham]

Ruth & Sheila,

 

Thanks!

 

Best news... VEENDAM in Bermuda this summer. Four cruises. Just coming into Hamilton to get the barge and cherry picker to get the ship painted! ;)

 

 

Safe voyaging!

 

Stephen

[OceanTraveller4ever]

Spa services and jewelry.

 

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it is a stupid decision.

 

I am not the only one who does not like that decision.

 

And yes it is unfortunate and stupid, whatever you may think.

Edited December 18, 2016 by OceanTraveller4ever

[bUU]

I am not the only one who does not like that decision.

No one said you were the only one.

 

And yes it is unfortunate and stupid, whatever you may think.

You're being mean again.

[payde]

Just returned from cruise on Koningsdam and there is NO library. Went to Q&A with Captain. He said that one will be added in 2017. Be sure to take reading materials with you!! Everything else was perfect!!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[Hlitner]

Hundreds of what, with what purchase?

 

Hope you mean books :) Sudoku/quizz sheets are super cheap, but HAL deigned them superfluous I guess.....not a cost thing, just a stupid decision thing.....

 

We see a possible solution. If the Park West folks thought that printing Sodoku puzzles would get you to their art auction...they would happily supply the puzzles and probably even put them on Premium paper like they use to make their prints :).

 

Hank

[EDLOS]

Well said. We can recognize, though, a difference between venting frustrations and going too far by demonizing those who don't share such frustrations for not sharing those frustrations. Just as it is silly to pick on people for waxing nostalgic, it is equally silly to pick on people for not sharing that sentiment. The middle road is a good place to be.

 

For myself, especially the days, I find nostalgia to be a liability, something to work to avoid - an attachment almost surely to slip away from me. I watched my father struggle with the changing times, how more and more life just didn't make sense to him; and I watched my late mother work diligently to keep up with the times, learning to appreciate the never-ending array of new experiences, new types of music, etc. She became that prototypical modern grandmother. I learned from my parents' remarkably different life experiences which way I wanted to live.

 

I had the great opportunity to have a niece move in with us for a while, recently. It punctuated how I was falling behind a bit. I better get on that.

 

"I find NOSTALIGIA to be a liability" Oh Dear! You are demonizing people who wax nostalgia, something you really should try to avoid, just a slip of your tongue I assume. Yes, "you better get on that"

[bUU]

As I said in the comment you replied to, nostalgia is not "for me ". Unlike others, I recognize that people have different preferences and what doesn't work for me may yet still work for others. And I surely don't demonize people for waxing nostalgic. If people are willing to accept the downside of doing so that I personally cannot (the impact of inevitable, never-ending change on those things we become nostalgic about), along with the upside I'm willing to live without, then more power to them! When people run out of runway is when they enjoy something and parlay that preference into criticism of others, whether they be people who don't share that preference or people who don't placate that preference. Nostalgia is about appreciating what was, not hating what is. Again, just because something isn't a certain way one person prefers doesn't necessarily mean anyone did anything wrong. Let's acknowledge that how things are, even if they are not necessarily how we ourselves would make them, can still be how they are supposed to be, and leave the rancor for true transgression.

Edited December 19, 2016 by bUU