What is fair

[EDLOS]

I think the best defense of HAL is "The Parable of the Workers in the Vinyard" (Mathew 20, verses 1-16).

 

To refresh your memory, the owner hired three sets of workers at different times during the day. Workers hired at the beginning of the day complained that those hired last were paid the same as those hired first.

 

The owner replied to their complaints: 13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’

 

So are you just being "envious"?

 

Help me understand the Parable, Is the Owner HAL ? Don't get that I am envious,..... Upset, Unhappy, Angry, at the time of the price drop and their initial unwillingness to do anything about. But to be scolded for not lying down and accepting HAL's policies and speaking up against them, I happily plead guilty !

 

On the lighter side : The "OWNER" today in the parable would be in violation of today's Labor Laws and would be pay a "Shift Differential" for the second and third group of workers he hired.

Labor Unions would have troubles with this Parable

[RuthC]

Don't get that I am envious,..... Upset, Unhappy, Angry, at the time of the price drop and their initial unwillingness to do anything about. But to be scolded for not lying down and accepting HAL's policies and speaking up against them, I happily plead guilty !

We get it. You're speshul. No need to belabor the point any longer.

[RocketMan275]

Help me understand the Parable, Is the Owner HAL ? Don't get that I am envious,..... Upset, Unhappy, Angry, at the time of the price drop and their initial unwillingness to do anything about. But to be scolded for not lying down and accepting HAL's policies and speaking up against them, I happily plead guilty !

 

On the lighter side : The "OWNER" today in the parable would be in violation of today's Labor Laws and would be pay a "Shift Differential" for the second and third group of workers he hired.

Labor Unions would have troubles with this Parable

 

Here's the explanation. All the workers agreed to the terms and conditions offered by the owner (HAL). At the end of the day, some were offended that others were treated more generously by the owner than they were. They were envious of the good fortune of the other workers. And, yes, you are envious that someone, somewhere, somehow got a better deal than you with your 89 days on HAL received.

 

Basically, you're trying to start a game of "Ain't It Awful" (google it) and no one wants to play along.

 

There would be violation of labor laws since there were no 'shifts' involved. Read the parable.

Edited June 5, 2016 by RocketMan275

[SLOTheta]

It isn't just HAL. Cruise lines do offer various perks for repeat passengers, but you get what's in their program, not individual extras.

 

Cruising is very different from business travel. If you travel on business, you probably aren't traveling on advance-purchase promo fares, which makes you valuable, especially since you're likely to be back again and again in a fairly short time period. They really want your company's money and they'll treat you well to get it.

 

So enjoy your upgrades and perks on land, and when you board the ship be prepared to be treated well (HAL is known for gracious service), but they won't single out you (or anyone else) to be treated royally.

 

 

Yes, I understand that cruising is a bit different than business travel, but when I hear of people with 1000 days with a line, that's insane that they don't get automatic upgrades, perks and concierge service to help them with pricing. I travel for both business and pleasure, it's about 50/50 these days and I don't always pay premium room rates. But, no matter what my rate, I've always received the best rooms available.

 

It's too bad to hear that this is an industry wide practice to not throw in uber perks for your best customers. I've been spoiled over the years and have come to expect upgrades and other nice perks.

 

 

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[3rdGenCunarder]

We get it. You're speshul. No need to belabor the point any longer.

 

Oh Ruth, now you've put Dana Carvey's voice in my head!

[SilvertoGold]

Yes, I understand that cruising is a bit different than business travel, but when I hear of people with 1000 days with a line, that's insane that they don't get automatic upgrades, perks and concierge service to help them with pricing. I travel for both business and pleasure, it's about 50/50 these days and I don't always pay premium room rates. But, no matter what my rate, I've always received the best rooms available.

 

It's too bad to hear that this is an industry wide practice to not throw in uber perks for your best customers. I've been spoiled over the years and have come to expect upgrades and other nice perks.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

 

On HAL "uber perks" are for the President's Club pax: 1400 actual day and up.

 

5 stars do get good rewards, which come to hundreds of dollars per person per cruise.

Some rewards are outright (2 complimentary Pinnacle dinners, wine tasting, cooking class, spa day) and some are discounts on certain products you might purchase (wine packages, internet, mini bar, Explorations Cafe, Pinnacle, Canaletto, Tamarind).

[richstowe]

The price on my July cruise has dropped considerably from when I booked. It's passed final payment date now. I was offered the same deal. They would upgrade my room only at no additional cost. I felt that was fair seeing as how they didn't have to do anything.

 

If you truly want there to be fairness then you should also call when prices go up and ask them if you can pay more for your cruise even if it was cheaper when you booked.

 

Other big businesses do not offer prices changes either. Have you ever tried to call and get a reduction on a flight? Would you even think to do that? No, because airlines absolutely do not change their prices. Why would you expect any other travel type of company to do so? If you were happy with the price when you booked then the current price should have no bearing.

 

And you do this: return a certain product and then buy it on sale?

 

We get it. You're speshul. No need to belabor the point any longer.

I love all of these posts because they manage to get the point across without overtly insulting the OP .

That would be wrong and against CC guidelines . So so wrong :D

[serendipity1499]

We are in the same boat, so to speak.. :eek: But our Final payment is in August.. The cabins we booked with our Friends last week went down more than 1/3 of the price we paid today..So we are going to cancel & start over again.. If we loose our cabins so be it.. Thank goodness it is not within final payment date, otherwise we would be out of luck..

 

I still can not find the reduction on-line, even at all the special sites which seem to get the reductions early.. Our Friends, who are going with us received a brochure today with a special unadvertised fare, which was $600 less than they paid & $400 less than we paid...

 

So we all decided to cancel & try to rebook at the lower fare, or cancel completely & pick another cruise, even if we have to go on another line.. Must wait till Monday to speak to our Travel Agent..

 

I take back this post.. Should have known better & checked it out first! My Bad!! :o Our Friends brought the brochure to us today.. In small print it stated:

Quote Fares may vary by departure Unquote & Quote Fares are based on Dates in Bold Unquote >

 

Of course it was not our departure, it was a departure in December almost two months later & it was for 10 days only, not 11 days ..:o:o

 

That's why I could not find the fare on-line.. Our Friends could have taken our fare, but they would loose all the perks such as prepaid Grats., $100 Beverage Card & 200 Free Internet minutes.. I told them to keep the fare they have..

 

Next time I will not take another person's word without checking it out first..;)

 

OH BTW with this cruise coming up we will have over 300 actual days sailed on HAL & they are not just on Caribbean or Canada cruises.. Almost 100 days were on the Prinsendam which is over $450 a night for outside cabins.. But we do get special Mariners discounts on board & $200 pp off the fare...

Edited June 5, 2016 by serendipity1499

[Caribbean Chris]

 

It's too bad to hear that this is an industry wide practice to not throw in uber perks for your best customers. I've been spoiled over the years and have come to expect upgrades and other nice perks.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

 

You might want to investigate Celebrity's benefits (Captain's Club) if a reward system for repeaters is of primary importance to you when selecting a cruise line.

 

They do offer a one-level upgrade (does not apply to/for suites bookings and there are other restrictions). Other benefits are fairly meaningful after you earn enough points to reach the "Elite" level and above.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Caribbean Chris

[kevingastreich]

I think the best defense of HAL is "The Parable of the Workers in the Vinyard" (Mathew 20, verses 1-16).

 

To refresh your memory, the owner hired three sets of workers at different times during the day. Workers hired at the beginning of the day complained that those hired last were paid the same as those hired first.

 

The owner replied to their complaints: 13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’

 

So are you just being "envious"?

 

Hey, in your scenario, it doesn't take long for the vineyard worker to realize it's better to sit at home until the last hour of the workday and then show up for the same pay. How's a vineyard owner supposed to stay in business that way? Or is going out of business "generous" in your book?

[dakrewser]

Hey, in your scenario, it doesn't take long for the vineyard worker to realize it's better to sit at home until the last hour of the workday and then show up for the same pay. How's a vineyard owner supposed to stay in business that way? Or is going out of business "generous" in your book?

 

 

If the worker chooses to "sit at home until the last hour of the workday" they take the chance that they won't be hired at all (like the cruise pax who think waiting until the last minute gets them a better price).

 

The vineyard owner pays what is necessary to have the job done within the time necessary to finish it (grapes must be picked at the proper degree of ripeness). Just as the cruise ship owner charges whatever is necessary to fill the ship before it sails...

[kevingastreich]

If the worker chooses to "sit at home until the last hour of the workday" they take the chance that they won't be hired at all (like the cruise pax who think waiting until the last minute gets them a better price).

 

The vineyard owner pays what is necessary to have the job done within the time necessary to finish it (grapes must be picked at the proper degree of ripeness). Just as the cruise ship owner charges whatever is necessary to fill the ship before it sails...

 

Cruise company or vineyard worker...life is a gamble! :p

[RocketMan275]

If the worker chooses to "sit at home until the last hour of the workday" they take the chance that they won't be hired at all (like the cruise pax who think waiting until the last minute gets them a better price).

 

The vineyard owner pays what is necessary to have the job done within the time necessary to finish it (grapes must be picked at the proper degree of ripeness). Just as the cruise ship owner charges whatever is necessary to fill the ship before it sails...

 

Well stated.

[SetAnOpenCourse]

If I'm going on a cruise, I figure The Vineyard Owner has been generous to me.

 

I think the parable is about generosity and mercy that is beyond reason, and the lesson about envy is secondary.

 

I think I'd be miffed in the OP's shoes, but thankfully in my seven cruises I haven't paid much more than what I think was the lowest price on my cabin category (albeit living in Fla. I can book last minute for a lot of cruises).

[Donny-Joe]

In fairness to the OP, lots of people get annoyed when the price of something they just bought goes down by a lot. If you are experienced with marketing of perishable goods (like cruise cabins, airline seats and hotel rooms) you completely understand why the price can bounce around, especially at the last minute. But most people have a very simple model of what is a "fair" price. They imagine that a business looks at their costs, adds a "normal" markup, and charges that much. When a price suddenly goes way down, people who paid the higher price feel like suckers. They feel like the higher price must have been "gouging," because clearly they were willing to sell for the lower price. They feel taken advantage of. Maybe that's not reasonable if you see things from the company's POV, but it doesn't change the way they feel.

 

Cruise lines are well aware of this, but most of them feel like they need to fill the ship, no matter what. The incremental cost of an additional passenger is actually pretty small (though the fixed costs of running the cruise in general are high), so getting each room filled is of paramount importance, and can make the difference between the cruise making or losing money. So if the sailing date is nigh, and rooms aren't filled, very few companies will keep the price as-is and risk sailing with unfilled rooms. They'll cut the price until every room is filled or as close to it as they can get.

 

There are some companies that will refuse to discount too far, under the theory of "price integrity." The idea is that if people know that the company won't discount, the passengers won't wait for a sale; they'll buy right away. Disney Cruise Line is very disciplined about this. They very rarely just flat lower their prices or run a sale, though they do find ways to lay off extra rooms at the last minute (to Florida residents, military members, employees, and people who'll take a restricted guarantee). But they will sail less than full if push comes to shove. Most cruise lines don't have the margins to pull that off; they need to squeeze every nickel.

 

I highly recommend an article by Joel Spolsky called "Camels and Rubber Duckies". It's ostensibly about pricing software, but it's really about pricing in general and it touches on this issue and others. Great reading, especially for people who find the nuts and bolts of marketing interesting. But it's pretty funny even if you aren't interested in marketing:

 

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/CamelsandRubberDuckies.html

Edited June 7, 2016 by Donny-Joe