What is fair

[EDLOS]

Water is still free.

Just don't drink the water from bottles in your Cabin

[Fouremco]

Business Dictionary's definition on the internet.

It is my understanding most highly rated Universities are now making "Business Ethics " a required course.

I think this would make an excellent Case Study for them.

I believe the Cruise Industry will head the same way of Airlines. There will be additional charges for Boarding first, extra changes for more than one bag, fees for tendering ashore, extra towel and linen charges. The possibilities are endless. Remember when WATER was free !!

Are you suggesting that these possible future charges would be unethical? While I wouldn't be happy if HAL or other lines started imposing such fees, I wouldn't consider them to be unethical.

[thinfool]

Just don't drink the water from bottles in your Cabin

 

Not to worry. Although if I was on a Carnival vessel, they give me a large bottle of water....$0.00.

 

Still, we drink ship's water....just fine and likely less chems than the bottled stuff.

[EDLOS]

You should try to think objectively - and to understand the meanings of the words you toss around. Ethical behavior involve adhering to the accepted practice in a particular context. Morality is utterly different. Individual rights has nothing to do with your situation - beyond your right to expect the company to conduct themselves in accordance with the above-mentioned accepted practice.

 

By referring to unrelated values ( such as morals, dignity, human rights, etc.) you are simply confusing yourself - and not convincing anyone who has real understanding of the situation.

 

I am sorry you are not getting your way - but sometimes you have to live with disappointment --- it is part of being a grown up.

 

It has become a way of life today, if someone voices an objection to something or policy or system and you disagree with that person to label them as a Whiner, Facist, Crybaby, Racist etc., instead putting forth an intelligent argument

Yes, I question the cruise line's policy because I HONESTLY think that many of their policies are unfair and unethical and will continue defend my right to do so. I do so with regard to areas of life not just cruise lines.

I think it is called the "American Way"

 

BY the way, Was it the King of England who first coined Whiners and Crybabies against Jefferson, Hamilton and the rest of the creators of the Declaration of Independence. I could be wrong !

 

P.S. I got an upgrade

[TiogaCruiser]

 

P.S. I got an upgrade

 

Congratulations. That's more than fair, because HAL didn't really have to do that. Obviously this is after final payment, and likely fairly close to sailing.

 

So, is it fair being that there are others who booked prior to final paid more?

[3rdGenCunarder]

It has become a way of life today, if someone voices an objection to something or policy or system and you disagree with that person to label them as a Whiner, Facist, Crybaby, Racist etc., instead putting forth an intelligent argument

Yes, I question the cruise line's policy because I HONESTLY think that many of their policies are unfair and unethical and will continue defend my right to do so. I do so with regard to areas of life not just cruise lines.

I think it is called the "American Way"

 

BY the way, Was it the King of England who first coined Whiners and Crybabies against Jefferson, Hamilton and the rest of the creators of the Declaration of Independence. I could be wrong !

 

P.S. I got an upgrade

 

You got an upgrade, and you still think HAL is unfair? Or are you speaking of the others who paid more than the current price and didn't get an upgrade to smooth things over?????????

 

(re: "whinning" in your subject line. Are you admitting to whining or bragging about winning?)

[kevingastreich]

I have spent since Jan.2015 til Mar. 1st 2016 89 days on HAL cruises and it apparently does not mean a thing to them.

 

Of course it means something to them.

[sail7seas]

Enjoy your cruise and surprise upgrade.

[RDC1]

Business Dictionary's definition on the internet.

It is my understanding most highly rated Universities are now making "Business Ethics " a required course.

I think this would make an excellent Case Study for them.

I believe the Cruise Industry will head the same way of Airlines. There will be additional charges for Boarding first, extra changes for more than one bag, fees for tendering ashore, extra towel and linen charges. The possibilities are endless. Remember when WATER was free !!

 

Actually it would be a very simple case study and the conclusion would be that HAL's actions were ethical, even by the statement posted from the Business Dictionary.

 

Ethical Business practices does not mean charging all customers the lowest possible price that is charged to any customer (which is apparently your interpretation). If it did the cruise line prices would be much much higher.

 

It does mean clear disclosure of terms. Allowing all customers equal opportunity to buy under the same terms. Anyone that purchased when you did got the same price you got.

[magandab]

It has become a way of life today, if someone voices an objection to something or policy or system and you disagree with that person to label them as a Whiner, Facist, Crybaby, Racist etc., instead putting forth an intelligent argument

Yes, I question the cruise line's policy because I HONESTLY think that many of their policies are unfair and unethical and will continue defend my right to do so. I do so with regard to areas of life not just cruise lines.

I think it is called the "American Way"

 

 

You absolutely have the right to your opinion and to state your opinion. You asked a question: "What is fair?" You got an answer and you didn't like it. Live with it.

[EDLOS]

You got an upgrade, and you still think HAL is unfair? Or are you speaking of the others who paid more than the current price and didn't get an upgrade to smooth things over?????????

 

(re: "whinning" in your subject line. Are you admitting to whining or bragging about winning?)

 

If HAL did not think it was unfair to drop prices 37 %, why did they give me the upgrade ?

Rest my case !!!

[SilvertoGold]

If HAL did not think it was unfair to drop prices 37 %, why did they give me the upgrade ?

Rest my case !!!

 

Possibly to keep you happy without any admission of wrong doing.

 

Some customers just don't quit so it is easier for a business be gracious and give them what they want.

 

By the way, 37% is not the biggest price drop I have seen.

 

Are you planning to write a blog or review of this cruise? It could be quite interesting, I'm sure.

[RDC1]

If HAL did not think it was unfair to drop prices 37 %, why did they give me the upgrade ?

Rest my case !!!

 

Goodwill. If they truly thought it was unfair they would have dropped the price. The upgrade was minimal cost to them (as in zero), while still keeping their pricing policy consistent. I expect that the current price of what you are getting on the upgrade is not any more then your original payment.

Edited June 2, 2016 by RDC1

[sapper1]

I have a simple rule. "Never look at the pricing after final payment."

 

As a result I have never been disappointed!

 

John

 

Agreed. I watch the pricing after I book a cruise and our agent makes a final check on pricing the day we make final payment. After that we file it and forget it.

If we wanted sale prices we would wait until the last minute to book but then there would be limited dining, specialty dining, excursion and cabin choices.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Agreed. I watch the pricing after I book a cruise and our agent makes a final check on pricing the day we make final payment. After that we file it and forget it.

If we wanted sale prices we would wait until the last minute to book but then there would be limited dining, specialty dining, excursion and cabin choices.

 

I do check the price before final payment, especially if a promo crops up. But I prefer to book early for the same reasons you listed. I'm willing to "risk" paying more to get what I want.

 

And I don't always pay more. I guess I choose popular itineraries because I haven't seen a price drop before or after final payment on my last few cruises. I've seen the prices go up. I suppose there could be price drops that aren't visible, like OP's upgrade. I book a balcony or a suite, and it's possible people are getting the equivalent of a price drop when they get an upgrade to my level. So congrats to them. I'm still going to enjoy the cabin I chose and not worry about what someone else paid.

[Randyk47]

If HAL did not think it was unfair to drop prices 37 %, why did they give me the upgrade ?

Rest my case !!!

 

Probably partially goodwill and partially demand for your original booked cabin category. I wouldn't too much into HAL having "corporate conscience" about whether or not you felt you'd been treated unfairly. It worked out for you and in the final analysis and guess that's what counts.

[RuthC]

If HAL did not think it was unfair to drop prices 37 %, why did they give me the upgrade ?

Rest my case !!!

You got lucky?

They needed your cabin?

To appease you?

 

If HAL did it because it was (your definition of) "fair", they would have upgraded every other person in the same category who paid at least as much as you did. There is no evidence that happened.

[iancal]

Is your ethics issue about the drop in price or the magnitude of the price reduction? Would you be this worked up if the reduction was only 10 percent?

 

We have bought many Med and Carib. cruises in the final payment window. The usual reduction is usually from 35-55 percent. To enjoy this discount requires us to be very flexible and make last minute changes of our travel plans. We accept this and for us it is generally not an issue.

 

Once we have bought inside that window the price has subsequently gone done and it has gone up from time to time.

 

We do not bother trying to obtain a refund for the price drop. We understand the terms and conditions under which we purchased the cabin. All that is left if for the cruise line to provide us with the cabin that they committed to and in an acceptable condition.

Edited June 2, 2016 by iancal

[SetAnOpenCourse]

HAL was not unethical in the OP's case, but on the other hand showing a company is not unethical doesn't make it honorable, admirable, etc.

 

Continual, wild price swings would not be unethical, but I think all who have replied here would probably think less of HAL if that were to happen. The OP's point about airlines was interesting, when one considers what has happened with leg room and baggage allowances.

 

Ethical is a weak recommendation. It's like meeting a minimum standard.

[navybankerteacher]

If HAL did not think it was unfair to drop prices 37 %, why did they give me the upgrade ?

Rest my case !!!

 

From previous posts, I am inclined to think that you should try to understand the concept of "ethics".

 

From this post I have to suggest you look up "unfair". In what universe is it

"...unfair to drop prices..."? Or even for a company to fail to voluntarily give up revenue?

 

Obviously, they decided their time was worth more than the cost of whatever upgrade they gave you---- they paid you to shut up -- congratulations.

[papaflamingo]

It has become a way of life today, if someone voices an objection to something or policy or system and you disagree with that person to label them as a Whiner, Facist, Crybaby, Racist etc., instead putting forth an intelligent argument

Yes, I question the cruise line's policy because I HONESTLY think that many of their policies are unfair and unethical and will continue defend my right to do so. I do so with regard to areas of life not just cruise lines.

I think it is called the "American Way"

 

BY the way, Was it the King of England who first coined Whiners and Crybabies against Jefferson, Hamilton and the rest of the creators of the Declaration of Independence. I could be wrong !

 

P.S. I got an upgrade

 

 

You got an UPGRADE! Wow! Did everyone on the ship get an upgrade? I doubt it. Are you accepting it? Isn't that unethical? Aren't you being singled out for special treatment? Doesn't that violate your very own definition of "ethical?" Let's see.... how did you define "ethics?" Oh yeah:

"Ethical behavior ...include honesty, fairness, equality, dignity, diversity, and individual rights "

 

Since only you got an upgrade, it isn't "fairness or equality." How could you possible feel good about allowing them to violate your very own ethical standards. I assume you stood on principle and refused to be so insulted by such an unethical move, and turned down the upgrade.

[SetAnOpenCourse]

In the interest of making this thread a little more constructive, would experienced and cost-conscious people here ever book a week before final payment? ...Two weeks before?

[SilvertoGold]

In the interest of making this thread a little more constructive, would experienced and cost-conscious people here ever book a week before final payment? ...Two weeks before?

 

Yes, have done both.

Edited June 3, 2016 by SilvertoGold

[SilvertoGold]

You got an UPGRADE! Wow! Did everyone on the ship get an upgrade? I doubt it. Are you accepting it? Isn't that unethical? Aren't you being singled out for special treatment? Doesn't that violate your very own definition of "ethical?" Let's see.... how did you define "ethics?" Oh yeah:

"Ethical behavior ...include honesty, fairness, equality, dignity, diversity, and individual rights "

 

Since only you got an upgrade, it isn't "fairness or equality." How could you possible feel good about allowing them to violate your very own ethical standards. I assume you stood on principle and refused to be so insulted by such an unethical move, and turned down the upgrade.

 

Nicely put, papaflamingo!

[iancal]

Yes, a few times one or two weeks prior. More often than not 4-8 weeks out.

 

Our experience is that the prices can actually increase two-three weeks out. This is why we typically have a strike price in mind and are prepared to buy immediately if the price hits.

 

We have been watching Med prices in anticipation of snagging one while on a land vacation. Looks good, prices have been discounted inside the final payment window since the early spring. May even get one before we do air this time. We book a verandah. There are fewer last minute offers for this type of cabins. Plenty for outside and insides though.

Edited June 3, 2016 by iancal