Majesty of The Seas - Faulty Life Jackets, Stuck in Port

[chengkp75]

Regarding what does a captain know and when; I'd expect any/all SOLAS related issues for a captain to be informed of. If someone at a lower level has not done their job properly and reported that to the Captain, I'd still place responsibility at the Captain. The master of the vessel is the one who is responsible. This is not entertainment schedule, or cosmetic wear and tear issues, hotel functional issues, etc.

 

 

Is it common for a ship to have life jackets pass a routine inspection with no further notation and then fail the next inspection? What is usually the amount of time between these inspections? Would the coast guard have informed RCI that the jackets passed but were nearing a replacement date / threshold? Salt water/ocean air environments are rough on equipment so you constantly see ships being worked on. I'm just surprised it got to this point. Seems like "amateur hour" to have this happen. I don't think RCI values profits above life and safety, but I think someone or some people screwed up big time.

 

Yes, the Captain is responsible, but if based on his experience, and his training of the staff, perhaps the lifejackets were acceptable. As I say, there is wide variation as to how USCG inspectors interpret regulations. Most of these people have not been to sea, and have no practical experience on a sea-going ship.

 

 

The lifejackets will be inspected by class annually, and typically by a deck officer monthly. As for USCG, this is entirely a random inspection. Their stated goal is to inspect every foreign ship that calls in the US twice a year, but they will freely admit that budget constraints makes that almost impossible, so it could be a couple years in between USCG inspections. And, yes, they can say, during one inspection, that 15 jackets need renewing, and those will be done, typically from spares onboard. There will be no notation about the condition of the remaining hundreds of jackets, not even to say that they met SOLAS requirements. Only deficiencies are noted. I know the Majesty was inspected both during the last shipyard and then at the first US port afterwards, and this was less than a year ago. I also don't know how many were "worn", as I've said, in relation to how many RCI decided to renew. Typically, the lifejackets are not renewed all at once, but as needed, so to fill a dumpster with old jackets tells me that they are likely being pro-active towards the next inspection.

 

 

 

And again, drop the idea of an "expiration date", there isn't one.

[John&LaLa]

Yes, the Captain is responsible, but if based on his experience, and his training of the staff, perhaps the lifejackets were acceptable. As I say, there is wide variation as to how USCG inspectors interpret regulations. Most of these people have not been to sea, and have no practical experience on a sea-going ship.

 

 

The lifejackets will be inspected by class annually, and typically by a deck officer monthly. As for USCG, this is entirely a random inspection. Their stated goal is to inspect every foreign ship that calls in the US twice a year, but they will freely admit that budget constraints makes that almost impossible, so it could be a couple years in between USCG inspections. And, yes, they can say, during one inspection, that 15 jackets need renewing, and those will be done, typically from spares onboard. There will be no notation about the condition of the remaining hundreds of jackets, not even to say that they met SOLAS requirements. Only deficiencies are noted. I know the Majesty was inspected both during the last shipyard and then at the first US port afterwards, and this was less than a year ago. I also don't know how many were "worn", as I've said, in relation to how many RCI decided to renew. Typically, the lifejackets are not renewed all at once, but as needed, so to fill a dumpster with old jackets tells me that they are likely being pro-active towards the next inspection.

 

 

 

And again, drop the idea of an "expiration date", there isn't one.

 

I feel like heading over to the port and doing a dumpster dive. :eek:

[Granny&Pap]

Will be on Majesty for 4 days end of February. Will check the life jackets for dates. Never had given it a thought and in recent muster drills, life jackets have not been required.....even held muster drills inside.... I guess I'll be in the habit of check expiration dates on life jackets for awhile;)Recently on Princess cruise and life jackets were required; but didn't have to put on unless wanted to. Saw many just watch and a few did try. AND again, was held in the dining room....some outside.

John&LaLa.....just love your view and your correct about central Florida unless your lania faces golf course, which ours does.:D

[John&LaLa]

Will be on Majesty for 4 days end of February. Will check the life jackets for dates. Never had given it a thought and in recent muster drills, life jackets have not been required.....even held muster drills inside.... I guess I'll be in the habit of check expiration dates on life jackets for awhile;)Recently on Princess cruise and life jackets were required; but didn't have to put on unless wanted to. Saw many just watch and a few did try. AND again, was held in the dining room....some outside.

John&LaLa.....just love your view and your correct about central Florida unless your lania faces golf course, which ours does.:D

 

:eek:

 

[davekathy]

Will be on Majesty for 4 days end of February. Will check the life jackets for dates. Never had given it a thought and in recent muster drills, life jackets have not been required.....even held muster drills inside.... I guess I'll be in the habit of check expiration dates on life jackets for awhile;)Recently on Princess cruise and life jackets were required; but didn't have to put on unless wanted to. Saw many just watch and a few did try. AND again, was held in the dining room....some outside.

John&LaLa.....just love your view and your correct about central Florida unless your lania faces golf course, which ours does.:D

 

Just don't blow the whistle. :D

[ryano]

I. Someone else said that and has been harping on it as if to say ducklites opinion of the situation is invalid because they are not a fan of RCI.

 

.

 

That someone else "harping on it" was me and I still stand by every single word i said.

[chengkp75]

There are no expiration dates on lifejackets. The only date you will see is on the light, and possibly a production date.

[JKrise]

This makes me wonder how many other ships on RCI fleet has enough faulty life jackets to fail an inspection?

 

RCI has a potential PR nightmare on their hands.

 

 

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[CruisinCrow]

This makes me wonder how many other ships on RCI fleet has enough faulty life jackets to fail an inspection?

 

RCI has a potential PR nightmare on their hands.

 

 

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Just got an email that our Indy cruise tomorrow won't leave port until 7:30 due to "important maintenance work". I'm guessing we're going to have brand new life jackets. :D

[John&LaLa]

There are no expiration dates on lifejackets. The only date you will see is on the light, and possibly a production date.

 

Any way to tell if they are counterfeit?

[Ocean Boy]

This makes me wonder how many other ships on RCI fleet has enough faulty life jackets to fail an inspection?

 

RCI has a potential PR nightmare on their hands.

 

 

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I would bet that within a matter of just a few short days none of the ships in the RCI fleet will have any faulty life jackets. ;)

[chengkp75]

This makes me wonder how many other ships on RCI fleet has enough faulty life jackets to fail an inspection?

 

RCI has a potential PR nightmare on their hands.

 

 

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As I've said, it could be any one of their ships, or any one of their competitor's ships, depending on the inspector. There is no gray area, the inspector says the lifejacket passes, or it fails, yet another inspector looking at a different pile of lifejackets on the same ship, could give an okay to a jacket the first inspector would have failed. There is training for PSC inspectors, and there are guidelines, but once onboard, the inspector is using their own judgement and experience to determine pass/fail.

[mollyeilis]

I would bet that within a matter of just a few short days none of the ships in the RCI fleet will have any faulty life jackets. ;)

 

 

I would bet that ALL cruise lines are scurrying about getting new life jackets at this point.

 

 

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[chengkp75]

Any way to tell if they are counterfeit?

 

I found a Safety Notice from 2005 regarding one manufacturer, but I remember one from a year or so ago about another manufacturer, but can't locate it. Sorry, its just the manufacturer name that gives it away, as they have not applied for or received a SOLAS approval number, and are using a phony one.

[Ourusualbeach]

I feel like heading over to the port and doing a dumpster dive. :eek:

 

When I see the "Collector Edition souvenir life jackets" from Majesty on eBay I'll know who's responsible.:D

[ONECRUISER]

As I've said, it could be any one of their ships, or any one of their competitor's ships, depending on the inspector. There is no gray area, the inspector says the lifejacket passes, or it fails, yet another inspector looking at a different pile of lifejackets on the same ship, could give an okay to a jacket the first inspector would have failed. There is training for PSC inspectors, and there are guidelines, but once onboard, the inspector is using their own judgement and experience to determine pass/fail.

 

From what I'm reading lot people don't understand or aren't listening to you. As you said one person evaluating could pass the Jackets another would say replace. Was in military and my job for 20+ yrs was evaluated units to see if they were Deploy able, or not, so I do understand. Thanks again, Michael

[Capt_BJ]

I have no idea what really happened here, but I have my suspicions. I've done and supervised many an inspection altho my experience was at sea boardings. I have enuf experience in CG to read a bit between the lines tho. And I would note that with cruise ships, visiting the same US port week after week there is a pretty high probability that they'll see at least some of the same faces for inspections time after time (USCG began hiring civilian inspectors years ago to increase "stability" in the process). There is a team of inspectors in Canaveral now due to the large number of cruise ships .... 20 years ago the inspectors would have traveled from Jax or Tampa or Miami

 

Consider ....

 

RCCL and CG mention that the previous inspection was passed. What they don't mention is what items were brought to the attention of the ship for action b4 next time. "A lot of these life jackets are borderline and I strongly recommend you relpace 'em b4 next time ......" This is often just one of a list of items "warned" but not written up.

 

Time passes ... inspection team returns and yes they do look up the last report, or may just have memory of last time .... lo, no action taken on items noted previously.

 

Well .... we know how to get your attention this time.

 

Not unlike the officer who stops you for no tail lights and says "I'll give you a warning, but get 'em fixed soon" .... and stops you 3 weeks later for the same problem.

 

I don't KNOW that this happened. But I know that in my experience it was not uncommon. As chang says there is a lot of subjective judgement in the inspection process ESPECIALLY when it comes to serviceability of certain items. IME any boarding officer worth their salt could rip the strap off a brand new life jacket during the inspection warranting an "unserviceable". More common was to find a boater who stored his life jackets in the plastic bags they came in to keep them clean. This was NOT, readily accessible according to boarding officer school (back in my day) but much discretion is in the hands of the inspector ... you can write it up, or you can explain what's wrong, why, and watch an on the spot correction. MUCH depended on the attitude of the party receiving the boarding. Did they see it as for their safety and perchance a learning experience; or did they cop an attitude because we were 'in their face for no reason'?

 

At the end of my CG career I was Captain of a Cutter that boarded and inspected fishing boats in the Bearing Sea (think Dangerous Catch tv show). None of these guys liked seeing us, but most tolerated realizing we were trying to help. I note in the news just recently a note about CG suspending the search for survivors of a crab boat lost up there. We checked these guy's for proper survival gear, their ability to put ON the gear, and condition of the boat. Yes, we ALSO checked that they fished legally. Some welcomed us and realized we tried to inspect with minimal interference to their operations (but we always were in the way ... no avoiding that) and some pissed and moaned the entire way. Even had one who tried to deny us getting on board .... that didn't sit well with me, or work for him .....

 

Last I'd say with near 100% certainty, the decision to hold the ship in port was not made by the inspection team nor even the COTP (Captain of the Port ... aka CG Sector Jax Commander). I'll bet a donut this went to the District Commander (Rear Admiral) and they had to make their case to him (her?) ... and possibly all the way to Washington.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Capt_BJ

[2CatsInFlorida]

Glad we decided to take Carnival Liberty on our Nassau cruise last month out of PC. Beautiful ship and balcony cabin. Great service and food surpassed our prior nine cruises with RCI. Passengers were polite and well behaved. Shows on RCI were much better though. Majesty had only expensive suites, no balconies. RCI has been going downhill while raising prices.

 

 

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[chengkp75]

Capt_BJ; I for one always appreciate it when the "puddle pirates" (sorry, couldn't resist) show up with the orange stripe. I've spent a lot of time "training" the young guys that come onboard for COI and PSC inspections. The older fellers see me (63 years young) and turn their rookies over to me right away, and ask that I help guide them, while they take on another part of the inspection. You have more direct experience, but I've seen detentions done at the COTP level, and in my opinion, RCI used a detention by the USCG and extended the time so they could replace all the jackets.

 

It is also possible, as you say, that the "observations" (rather than deficiencies) were forgotten about last time, though because of Majesty's initial problems in Freeport, I'm a bit surprised that even marginal items were allowed, as this was a first PSC inspection in several years for Majesty.

[ONECRUISER]

I have no idea what really happened here, but I have my suspicions. I've done and supervised many an inspection altho my experience was at sea boardings. I have enuf experience in CG to read a bit between the lines tho. And I would note that with cruise ships, visiting the same US port week after week there is a pretty high probability that they'll see at least some of the same faces for inspections time after time (USCG began hiring civilian inspectors years ago to increase "stability" in the process). There is a team of inspectors in Canaveral now due to the large number of cruise ships .... 20 years ago the inspectors would have traveled from Jax or Tampa or Miami

 

Consider ....

 

RCCL and CG mention that the previous inspection was passed. What they don't mention is what items were brought to the attention of the ship for action b4 next time. "A lot of these life jackets are borderline and I strongly recommend you relpace 'em b4 next time ......" This is often just one of a list of items "warned" but not written up.

 

Time passes ... inspection team returns and yes they do look up the last report, or may just have memory of last time .... lo, no action taken on items noted previously.

 

Well .... we know how to get your attention this time.

 

Not unlike the officer who stops you for no tail lights and says "I'll give you a warning, but get 'em fixed soon" .... and stops you 3 weeks later for the same problem.

 

I don't KNOW that this happened. But I know that in my experience it was not uncommon. As chang says there is a lot of subjective judgement in the inspection process ESPECIALLY when it comes to serviceability of certain items. IME any boarding officer worth their salt could rip the strap off a brand new life jacket during the inspection warranting an "unserviceable". More common was to find a boater who stored his life jackets in the plastic bags they came in to keep them clean. This was NOT, readily accessible according to boarding officer school (back in my day) but much discretion is in the hands of the inspector ... you can write it up, or you can explain what's wrong, why, and watch an on the spot correction. MUCH depended on the attitude of the party receiving the boarding. Did they see it as for their safety and perchance a learning experience; or did they cop an attitude because we were 'in their face for no reason'?

 

At the end of my CG career I was Captain of a Cutter that boarded and inspected fishing boats in the Bearing Sea (think Dangerous Catch tv show). None of these guys liked seeing us, but most tolerated realizing we were trying to help. I note in the news just recently a note about CG suspending the search for survivors of a crab boat lost up there. We checked these guy's for proper survival gear, their ability to put ON the gear, and condition of the boat. Yes, we ALSO checked that they fished legally. Some welcomed us and realized we tried to inspect with minimal interference to their operations (but we always were in the way ... no avoiding that) and some pissed and moaned the entire way. Even had one who tried to deny us getting on board .... that didn't sit well with me, or work for him .....

 

Last I'd say with near 100% certainty, the decision to hold the ship in port was not made by the inspection team nor even the COTP (Captain of the Port ... aka CG Sector Jax Commander). I'll bet a donut this went to the District Commander (Rear Admiral) and they had to make their case to him (her?) ... and possibly all the way to Washington.

 

It's not "Chang" it's "chengkp75" as in Chief Engineer...

[Capt_BJ]

Well we can agree on one thing

 

one of us sat on the bench for these decisions

 

and one sat on the floor and responded to the decisions .....

[Granny&Pap]

:eek:

 

 

Ohhhhhh YA!! Have seen them.....:eek:

[Granny&Pap]

Just don't blow the whistle. :D

 

Just HAPPY when we don't even have to take from cabin.....:p

[Granny&Pap]

There are no expiration dates on lifejackets. The only date you will see is on the light, and possibly a production date.

GREAT!!:D Won't waste my time....:rolleyes:

[momof3cruisers]

2:45. CG still onboard going over thing with a fine tooth comb. Currently running a fire drill. No update from the bridge.

 

Me? I am 3/4 through both a good book and a 1/2 gallon of Captain Morgan spiced rum I "forgot" was in my luggage from my Disney trip earlier in the week. At this point, I am ok sitting at the pier with increasing discounts until Friday. :-)

Lots of snow on the ground at home and I think I like Cocoa Beach better than Nassau anyway.

 

Good for you! I always figure that once I am on the ship, vacation has started. There are some ports I would be sad to miss of course, but that's just a good reason for another cruise. Nassau is not one I would be sad to miss. Enjoy the rest of your "cruise." ;)