Gratuities & tips are not obligatory

[broberts]

 

 

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=52157079&highlight=team#post52157079

Scroll down to the last paragraph of the above post

 

"It was here I learned of something that was quite incredulous to me actually...follow me here:

The various bar venues are split into "teams"... so for example the bar staff in Boleros plus On Air are one team. The 18% gratuity on each bill is split within that team, not to everyone on the ship, so if one bar is better than the other (service, drinks, etc) and get more tips then those servers will get better income than a bar with poor service. Their wages are 100% dependent on tips from you and I. Anything extra added to a bill (or in cash) to a server is kept by the server 90%, 10% goes to the team. By the way, this applies to the stateroom attendants too I was told. I was floored. The next morning when I saw our excellent stateroom attendant I gave him another $50 after learning this. Please everyone, if you can afford to do so tip your excellent and deserved servers well when you can."

 

The reference is hardly from an official Royal Caribbean source. Unless and until cruise lines make official statements on the matter it is all just conjecture and rumour.

[LMaxwell]

#62

 

Thanks for the link; I still think it is nearly impossible to actually account for this.

What if someone gives a room steward $20 up front; happens all the time, harmless enough I suppose. Does the steward turn in that money and assign it to that cabin number, and only gets it back after the cruise if the person left their autos on? Or does the crew just pocket that $20 on day one and keep it and / or spend it in a port of call? Maybe compulsory pooling is the way, but it still seems very difficult to administrate.

 

And that still doesn't answer how all of these behind the scenes staff members were paid prior to the auto-gratuity / adding it to someones onboard account.

[DirtyDawg]

WOW this thread is the Usain Bolt of CC threads. I got to 100 REALLY FAST! :D

 

Now for the 200!;)

[nolesrule]

This is often said on CC, but never has been corroborated. There are a number of different scenarios that would make this accounting virtually impossible, but I'll stick with the first point that it has not been corroborated, though it does seem to be accepted as factual. I'm just asking for proof.

 

How were non-front line service personnel paid prior to the automatic gratuity system?

 

Let's use a little bit of imagination as we look at the facts. When people think of the gratuities, they are referring to their regular dinner waiter, assistant waiter, and stateroom attendant. Now let's isolate part of the breakdown of the auto gratuities.

$3.70 - Other Hotel Services

Who are these people and how do they get paid if you remove auto gratuities?

[setsail]

Thanks for the link; I still think it is nearly impossible to actually account for this.

What if someone gives a room steward $20 up front; happens all the time, harmless enough I suppose. Does the steward turn in that money and assign it to that cabin number, and only gets it back after the cruise if the person left their autos on? Or does the crew just pocket that $20 on day one and keep it and / or spend it in a port of call? Maybe compulsory pooling is the way, but it still seems very difficult to administrate.

 

And that still doesn't answer how all of these behind the scenes staff members were paid prior to the auto-gratuity / adding it to someones onboard account.

 

YW. It's a need to know, cruisers don't need the answers, although some think they do.

All you will get from the crew is their pat answers. I think the link covered it all

[TC1957]

Thanks for the link; I still think it is nearly impossible to actually account for this.

What if someone gives a room steward $20 up front; happens all the time, harmless enough I suppose.

 

I agree completely. There are no cameras in the cabins (at least there better not be...expectations of privacy) so there is no way to be certain a cash gratuity is given. One of the reason employers like tipping is that much of it is in cash...and not all staff reports 100% of cash tips. The vast majority of the time, when we go out to eat we tip in cash.

[broberts]

Let's use a little bit of imagination as we look at the facts. When people think of the gratuities, they are referring to their regular dinner waiter, assistant waiter, and stateroom attendant. Now let's isolate part of the breakdown of the auto gratuities.

$3.70 - Other Hotel Services

Who are these people and how do they get paid if you remove auto gratuities?

 

Presumably the cruise line pays them.

 

Unless someone can provide proof, not speculation or rumour that the cruise line does not pay its service personnel I think it only reasonable to assume that wages are paid by the cruise line.

[brywood]

Just make sure you do it on the first day so that your name goes on the non-tipper list for the whole week and the staff know what they're dealing with, rather than being one of those nasty people that goes on the last night to do it.

 

 

Now this I would like to see if anyone can confirm? Do you think/know that this list exists of the names that removed auto tipping?

[Clarea]

Now this I would like to see if anyone can confirm? Do you think/know that this list exists of the names that removed auto tipping?

Welcome to Cruise Critic.

 

I've seen the list that the stateroom attendant has that lists the guests who have removed auto tips.

[Biker19]

WOW this thread is the Usain Bolt of CC threads. I got to 100 REALLY FAST! :D

The OP got the click bait title just about right to stir up the CC crowd.

 

Biker, who has yet to see something different in this thread that has not been mentioned in all the previous tipping threads.

[Hoopster95]

Presumably the cruise line pays them.

 

Unless someone can provide proof, not speculation or rumour that the cruise line does not pay its service personnel I think it only reasonable to assume that wages are paid by the cruise line.

 

 

Prove it

[DCGuy64]

People are tough on the OP because what they want to do is just plain wrong. Clearly, you two, nor the OP, have ever worked in the American service industry. Whether you like to hear it or not, your tips are our wages and if you walk out of a restaurant and tip nothing, you just stiffed a server their pay and should 100% feel guilty (unless you have a valid reason). It would be wonderful if we made living wages, but that is simply not the case.

 

 

 

If you can't afford to tip on your cruise, you shouldn't go on your cruise in the first place. Same with going out to eat.

 

 

 

Sorry to disappoint you, but actually both I and my wife used to work as restaurant servers, both of us did so for 2-3 years. Please don't make assumptions about what I have or have not done. And we eat out a lot, and we always tip well unless the service is spectacularly bad. And as I mentioned before, I have ALWAYS paid cruise ship gratuities automatically and was surprised to find they were optional. And I re-read the OP's original post and don't see in it anything that suggested stiffing anyone, only that gratuities were quasi-optional. All I'm asking is not to come down so hard on someone who might be new to the forum and stop making assumptions. I read it more as informational rather than proscriptive.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[OfTheSeasCruiser]

Sorry to disappoint you, but actually both I and my wife used to work as restaurant servers, both of us did so for 2-3 years. Please don't make assumptions about what I have or have not done. And we eat out a lot, and we always tip well unless the service is spectacularly bad. And as I mentioned before, I have ALWAYS paid cruise ship gratuities automatically and was surprised to find they were optional. And I re-read the OP's original post and don't see in it anything that suggested stiffing anyone, only that gratuities were quasi-optional. All I'm asking is not to come down so hard on someone who might be new to the forum and stop making assumptions. I read it more as informational rather than proscriptive.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Guess you missed their follow-up posts, like post #8 or #15.

[Ski-Lady]

Is there anyone here who has actually had their tips removed? Can you tell us the process?

 

I ask because I was at Guest Services near the end of a cruise and there was a "lady" trying to have the tips removed for everyone in her party. I don't remember number of people but 5 or 6 seems to stick in my head. She was upset because GS wanted her to note why they were removing the tips for each person in the party and for each service personal that receiving tips (room steward, waiter, assit. waiter ect.) The lady was very upset that she had to do so much paperwork "Just to get my money back" in her words. The very kind woman at GS services told her they wished their party had let GS know sooner and they needed to know who wasn't providing the expected service so the matter could be corrected. I believe the lady was more than a little embarrassed at this point. I left before the whole issue was settled.

 

By the way we leave our tips in place and tip extra to those who we feel go "above and beyond" for us, which has been several people on every cruise.

 

I have a feeling if the OP ever made Diamond he would have a fit about tipping the Diamond waiters and Concierge. Yes we always remember them too.

Edited August 15, 2017 by Ski-Lady

[DCGuy64]

Guess you missed their follow-up posts, like post #8 or #15.

 

 

 

Thanks, but no, I did not miss posts #8 or 15, and having just re-read those, too, I still find no mention of stiffing the staff, rather that the poster prefers to decide for himself/herself how much to tip. And although I am fine with automatic tipping myself, I prefer not to insult the OP by implying that we'd rather not have them on board at all (aka just stay home) after saving up for 3 years than to allow them the freedom to decide how much to tip.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LMaxwell]

It would be wonderful if we made living wages, but that is simply not the case.

 

If you are not earning a living wage you should have zero tax liability. But if you still have someone claiming you as a dependent I am not sure if that skews things.

 

I know many people in the service industry and they prefer cash for the following reasons:

1. I have never met anyone in the service industry that reports all their cash tip income

2. With credit card tips I have learned some service staff are having a cut taken out by mangers for "administrative fees" "management fees"; that is called stealing. Management is not entitled to a portion of their staffs tips. A good friend of mine is a bar tender at a trendy microbrew and learned his management steals portions of CC tips, now I only pay w CC and tip in cash.

 

I know NCL can reserve part of their guest charge pool to use for administrative reasons; the amount is undisclosed. I wonder if other cruise lines do this as well. I would feel much more comfortable knowing that all monies paid are going to the deserving party and not being siphoned off as a bogus administrative fee. I suspect some people prefer cash for that very same reason.

[TC1957]

Guess you missed their follow-up posts, like post #8 or #15.

 

It's comment like this that are my weakness. I always say someone cannot make me feel anything, rather it is the way I choose to react that determines my feelings. I guess I choose to get agitated.

 

In my opinion, one of two things is true; You have an issue with reading comprehension or you like to just make things up when posting on discussion boards.

 

I challenge you to go to post 8 and/or 15 and quote where the OP said they would stiff the crew.

[Tommy3putts]

OP hasn't indicated how much they would tip if they decided to tip a crew member

[jsausley]

A little math:

 

Oasis of the Seas passenger capacity: 5,400

Cost per day for auto-grats: $13.50 per person

Total cost: $72,900 per day.

Total crew on the Oasis: 2,394

Gratuities per crew member per day: $30.45/day

 

 

I know there are a lot of assumptions in this math here (like the split isn't equal, not every cruise has maximum capacity and some people decline gratuities, or pay extra gratuities), but if I were a crewmember, I know I'd be pissed if people were unwilling to pay me $30.45 a day for all the work that I would be doing.

[Ski-Lady]

Hi All,

 

 

 

As a family of 5 travelling the cost per day @ $13.50 for 7 days will be quite considerable at $472.50! Now I can honestly say that I would never tip this much during a weeks land holiday so will certainly not be forced to pay this at sea.

 

You can then reward the staff members that you want to reward.

 

Thanks for your comment nolesrules.

 

Having spent thousands on this cruise I do not feel it that I should automatically be forced to cough up almost $500 dollars.

 

That being said I always tip those I have had direct contact with that have given excellent service. Those behind the scenes will be missed, and that is something I honestly never thought about. Maybe I will offer something at the end to be shared, but most certainly not what that intend on adding.:(

 

 

Yes, we are all reading between the lines in many posts when maybe we shouldn't, but even if he doesn't out right say he won't tip he does imply that he will be leaving less than expected.

[broberts]

Prove it

 

:rolleyes: By definition one cannot be an employee without being paid by the employer.

[LMaxwell]

A little math:

 

Oasis of the Seas passenger capacity: 5,400

Cost per day for auto-grats: $13.50 per person

Total cost: $72,900 per day.

Total crew on the Oasis: 2,394

Gratuities per crew member per day: $30.45/day

 

 

I know there are a lot of assumptions in this math here (like the split isn't equal, not every cruise has maximum capacity and some people decline gratuities, or pay extra gratuities), but if I were a crewmember, I know I'd be pissed if people were unwilling to pay me $30.45 a day for all the work that I would be doing.

 

5400 is double occupancy capacity "100%" load. The ship often sails at over 108% capacity.

 

As far as crew number, those in the tip pool are way smaller amount than 2394. You have to remove engineering, marine operations, youth staff, guest services, casino, entertainers, etc. I I'd put the number in the tip pool closer to 1000-1200 and the number of guests closer to 6000 on average. This also ignores the higher price paid on suites, but for discussion sake I'll give that a "close enough" I get where you are going with the math but I think your number is seriously off; by a factor of more than 100%.

[The Sunset Glow]

Now this I would like to see if anyone can confirm? Do you think/know that this list exists of the names that removed auto tipping?

 

Welcome to Cruise Critic.

 

I've seen the list that the stateroom attendant has that lists the guests who have removed auto tips.

 

I've also seen this list - twice, in fact, on two different ships.

[dplusd]

As a family of 5 travelling the cost per day @ $13.50 for 7 days will be quite considerable at $472.50! Now I can honestly say that I would never tip this much during a weeks land holiday so will certainly not be forced to pay this at sea.

 

Can't afford to tip...can't afford to cruise. You obviously do not understand the USA pricing model.

[LMaxwell]

Yes, we are all reading between the lines in many posts when maybe we shouldn't, but even if he doesn't out right say he won't tip he does imply that he will be leaving less than expected.

 

He only says he should not be compelled to pay this amount automatically. And while he says he would not pay this for a weeks vacation, I bet with resort fees and eating meals 3x a day out, you'd get pretty close anyways. He does say the behind the scenes workers may not get the intended amount, I'll concede that point. But OP has left themselves the option to see how the service is and decide on the fly. For all we know they could receive what they consider stellar service and reward staff with more than anticipated.