Gratuities

[Hey Tina]

There is no value in quoting USA regulations about the wage laws. The ships are not USA territory...all foreign flagged. The workers work 7 days a week for 6-9 months, They do not get a day off. The room stewards work 12 to 15 hours a day split shift 7days a week. Go ahead and get all up in the air about poor service.

 

And dont worry.....I will be judgemental

 

Doug

 

As a matter of fact, Doug, there was value in quoting USA regulations about wage laws, and I'll tell you why.

 

The poster that I replied to to said tipping on a cruise ship is no different than at a land based restaurant, which is 100% wrong. Just like I said earlier, I'll say it again here employers are legally required to bring tipped workers hourly wage up to the minimum wage if they do not earn at least that amount with their base wage plus tips.

 

Once I presented the facts suddenly radio silence from rukkian.

[rukkian]

What exactly did you want me to say? I worked as a waiter for many years, and while the law may say that, good luck enforcing it. You would have to prove that the cash you got each night for I assume two weeks would have to be less per hour than minimum wage. No employer is going to accept that, so now you have to sue to get a free bucks back from your employer. Good luck keeping that job, or getting another.

 

I still stand by the risk is on the tip allowed worker.

 

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[rukkian]

As a matter of fact, Doug, there was value in quoting USA regulations about wage laws, and I'll tell you why.

 

The poster that I replied to to said tipping on a cruise ship is no different than at a land based restaurant, which is 100% wrong. Just like I said earlier, I'll say it again here employers are legally required to bring tipped workers hourly wage up to the minimum wage if they do not earn at least that amount with their base wage plus tips.

 

Once I presented the facts suddenly radio silence from rukkian.

On top of all that, it still doesn't show that it makes it okay to stiff the workers just to save a buck.

 

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[Hey Tina]

What exactly did you want me to say? I worked as a waiter for many years, and while the law may say that, good luck enforcing it. You would have to prove that the cash you got each night for I assume two weeks would have to be less per hour than minimum wage. No employer is going to accept that, so now you have to sue to get a free bucks back from your employer. Good luck keeping that job, or getting another.

 

I still stand by the risk is on the tip allowed worker.

 

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On top of all that, it still doesn't show that it makes it okay to stiff the workers just to save a buck.

 

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What did I want you to say? Well you could have started with, "You know what, you're right, I was wrong." but okay, no problem, you've now moved the goalpost and your new argument is not that I was wrong, but that it's difficult to enforce the law. Got it.

 

And to reiterate, I do not think it is okay to stiff the workers, so I tip. If someone disagrees, they don't tip. End of. Not my circus, not my monkeys.

[rukkian]

What did I want you to say? Well you could have started with, "You know what, you're right, I was wrong." but okay, no problem, you've now moved the goalpost and your new argument is not that I was wrong, but that it's difficult to enforce the law. Got it.

 

And to reiterate, I do not think it is okay to stiff the workers, so I tip. If someone disagrees, they don't tip. End of. Not my circus, not my monkeys.

You know you were right about the law, now did that stroke your ego enough?

 

What I said still stands- the tip capable worker has the risk. I did not know there was a (unenforceable) law, great. Now how does that help the workers that get stiffed? My comment was to those that said they should not base their expectations of salary on tips, instead only going by their base salary, but when you sign a contract (or take any job) where you salary is greatly reduced due to being tip eligible, then you do rely on those tips.

 

I have worked jobs where tips were a large piece of my expected pay, but it was long ago, and the law seems to have changed, since the minimum wage has gone up, but the tip minimum wage seems to have gone down, while adding the provision that the employer has to make up the difference. That is definitely different than when I was part of it, so many years ago.

 

You picked one minor point I made, about us law, that does not really pertain to this conversation anyways and decided that was what you must show how much you know about the topic. I did not think that required a response, because it was not a huge deal to me, bur apparently you really needed me to validate your knowledge, so here you go.

 

I really don't care about us tip law, so this is the last I will mention it, just so if you come up with some other obscure fact you want validated, i will not respond, you can use that as validation of you need it.

 

 

 

 

 

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[Hey Tina]

You know you were right about the law, now did that stroke your ego enough?

 

What I said still stands- the tip capable worker has the risk. I did not know there was a (unenforceable) law, great. Now how does that help the workers that get stiffed? My comment was to those that said they should not base their expectations of salary on tips, instead only going by their base salary, but when you sign a contract (or take any job) where you salary is greatly reduced due to being tip eligible, then you do rely on those tips.

 

I have worked jobs where tips were a large piece of my expected pay, but it was long ago, and the law seems to have changed, since the minimum wage has gone up, but the tip minimum wage seems to have gone down, while adding the provision that the employer has to make up the difference. That is definitely different than when I was part of it, so many years ago.

 

You picked one minor point I made, about us law, that does not really pertain to this conversation anyways and decided that was what you must show how much you know about the topic. I did not think that required a response, because it was not a huge deal to me, bur apparently you really needed me to validate your knowledge, so here you go.

 

I really don't care about us tip law, so this is the last I will mention it, just so if you come up with some other obscure fact you want validated, i will not respond, you can use that as validation of you need it.

 

 

 

 

 

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You're a class act :')

[cjdixon4]

Anyway... OP, did you get some. clarity on your original question? It went South I'm here real quick.

[SRF]

There is nothing wrong with punishing the worker by withholding tips then if I receive poor or no service. This is what I have been arguing for throughout this entire thread. Children are punished when they do something wrong. Withholding tips let the workers know when they have been bad as well. Furthermore, it is ridiculous that I can be shamed because I elect not to tip but the workers can't be shamed or "punished." That's not logical.

 

No one has argued against removing tips for poor service. Although first, I would talk to their boss.

 

But removing auto gratuities and tipping those who you feel deserve tipping is NOT the same thing.

[LH25]

Yes, I hate tipping and think it should be abolished. It is immoral. Therefore, I look for reasons to reduce my tip burden (or not to tip at all) throughout my life (cruising, eating out, taking a taxi, etc). You should too.

 

Problem I have with this (not that I think you'll care) is that your taking a "moral" stance isn't costing you a thing, you benefit from it and those people who didn't make the policies lose income.

[grapau27]

Problem I have with this (not that I think you'll care) is that your taking a "moral" stance isn't costing you a thing, you benefit from it and those people who didn't make the policies lose income.

I agree.

There was another poster on here swede something who bragged his 6th cruise was free because of his non payment of tips.

Absolute scumbag.

 

UK D+ member.

[frank808]

There is nothing wrong with punishing the worker by withholding tips then if I receive poor or no service. This is what I have been arguing for throughout this entire thread. Children are punished when they do something wrong. Withholding tips let the workers know when they have been bad as well. Furthermore, it is ridiculous that I can be shamed because I elect not to tip but the workers can't be shamed or "punished." That's not logical.

To argue your point for not tipping you claim to not tip for poor service.

Yes, I hate tipping and think it should be abolished. It is immoral. Therefore, I look for reasons to reduce my tip burden (or not to tip at all) throughout my life (cruising, eating out, taking a taxi, etc). You should too.

But actually you are just making excuses to not tip the poor workers that have made your vacation so enjoyable. You are a class act.

 

At least now we know the REAL reason why you are so admant in not tipping. [emoji107] [emoji107]

 

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[Pstreet12]

Yes, I hate tipping and think it should be abolished. It is immoral. Therefore, I look for reasons to reduce my tip burden (or not to tip at all) throughout my life (cruising, eating out, taking a taxi, etc). You should too.

 

Immoral? Really?

 

"Immoral: not conforming to accepted standards of morality, 'an immoral and un-winable war' synonyms: unethical, bad, morally wrong, wrongful, evil, wicked, foul, unprincipled, unscrupulous, dishonorable, dishonest, unconscionable, iniquitous, disreputable, corrupt, depraved, vile, villainous, nefarious, base, miscreant"

 

Clearly, you've gotten a bit carried away with your terminology.

[makiramarlena]

If it is a matter of financial limitations and you want to make sure you don't stiff anybody, pay the standard gratuity for both rooms and forego tipping individuals extra.

[Aulanis]

This may be considered off topic but just as a one off comment not relevant to whether I agree with autotips or not, nor how much the servers /attendants get paid. Can someone (anyone) explain to me why US/Can cruisers on Princess can have a 3 for free promotion which includes the gratuities and UK cruisers on the same cruise do not have the option and have to pay the gratuities. Does it mean that attendants and servers etc for those passengers on 3 for free promotion dont get paid?

[Pstreet12]

On promotions, the cruise line itself covers the items that are included in the promotion. There will be some cruisers who have booked those cruises before (or after) the promotion, and they will be paying their own grat. Those who book during the promotion will have the grat. covered by the cruise line--no different than if they had reduced the base price for the cruise itself: they take the loss in revenue. For the grat., they are actually taking less revenue because they will cover that amount for the workers.

[rukkian]

This may be considered off topic but just as a one off comment not relevant to whether I agree with autotips or not, nor how much the servers /attendants get paid. Can someone (anyone) explain to me why US/Can cruisers on Princess can have a 3 for free promotion which includes the gratuities and UK cruisers on the same cruise do not have the option and have to pay the gratuities. Does it mean that attendants and servers etc for those passengers on 3 for free promotion dont get paid?

 

Not sure on Princess, because have not sailed them yet, but I am guessing it is kind of like with RCI. When they have promos, whether that is free alcohol packages the UK gets frequently, or OBC, or kids sail free, normally the price adjusts higher to make up at least most of the difference. In the end, you may get a deal if what they are offering is useful to you, but it is rarely free.

[savva0122]

The easiest thing to do is prepay your tips before you go. I prefer to do that as hate to see the charge racking up on my room bill. I do see it as a service charge so would need a good Reason not to pay them. I don't see the need to tip extra, but often leave a few dollars for the Windjammer staff

[Milwaukee Eight]

If it is a matter of financial limitations and you want to make sure you don't stiff anybody, pay the standard gratuity for both rooms and forego tipping individuals extra.

 

 

 

If one has such financial limitations, why is one cruising?

 

 

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[Cuizer2]

Because I initially planned to remove and tip individuals, I know people do this but as I said didn't want the behind the scenes staff to not receive any tip. In an ideal world I would leave the gratuities on both rooms and tip individuals generously however that's not a financial option for us.

 

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I realize you are new to this forum, but you post above just set you up for a lot of abuse, or in Internet language - flaming. Personally I think finances are none of anyone's business except yourself, which is why I will not discuss such matters myself.

[LMaxwell]

If one has such financial limitations, why is one cruising?

 

 

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Not starting with you, just making sure I understand question; are you asking why if someone can not afford to tip beyond the automatic gratuity why are they bothering to cruise?

[LMaxwell]

Rukkian, come join me at the "class act" table. It's an exclusive crowd :')

[Milwaukee Eight]

Not starting with you, just making sure I understand question; are you asking why if someone can not afford to tip beyond the automatic gratuity why are they bothering to cruise?

 

 

 

No. If they can only cruise by removing grats then why cruise??

 

 

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[LMaxwell]

No. If they can only cruise by removing grats then why cruise??

 

 

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got it

[Ginny10]

I realize you are new to this forum, but you post above just set you up for a lot of abuse, or in Internet language - flaming. Personally I think finances are none of anyone's business except yourself, which is why I will not discuss such matters myself.

 

 

 

The post you have commented on was not my original question it was a response. I was under the impression that forums were a platform to ask questions not a platform to apparently ask for abuse. Anyway you're right I am new to here and I won't be asking any questions again. There are a some on here that are genuine and have given good advice in a pleasant manner. The rest of you clearly enjoy arguing and criticising each other.

 

 

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[Milwaukee Eight]

got it

 

 

 

I reread the post. The poster was saying leave the prepaid grats and don't tip extra.

 

I was thinking they were saying to remove the grats and don't tip.

 

But I am sure some remove and then still don't tip. It happens.

 

 

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