Do PandO get Norro?

[Britboys]

Other tell-tale signs when you are on board are if you see a tray with paper plates and plastic cutlery outside a cabin or you see stewards going in dressed in 'coveralls' and a face mask! Pleased to say I have never had it either. I always use a towel to open doors if i use a public loo on-board. Whilst anti-bacterial wipes guard against some things, they don't help with noro. The clue is in the name noroVIRUS.

[kalos]

Once on Ventura we had lunch in the buffet where the staff were squirting gel on your hands prior to being given your tray. I collected my food then went to sit down, I forgot my cutlery and went back and was stopped again to use the hand gel, which although annoying was well enforced

 

I'm glad to hear they were enforcing it as they cannot let one person back in yet stop someone

who possibly has not gelled their hands. Think it was the same ship when I saw one guy trying to take his used plate back into the buffet for more food (trying to save on the washing up) but he was stopped , plate taken away and given a clean tray with plate and cutlery before entering the food area again, I'm glad to say.

Some think the MDR is a safer bet but we have seen the dawn chorus of coughers and sneezes into their hands and then they handle menu's and the salt and pepper pots.

Once on a cruise ship not P&O , whilst washing my hands in a washroom a member of staff walked out of the toilet without hand washing, as I followed him out he went into the buffet and went about his work .Nearby was a ships officer so I told him and he shouted the guy over who admitted he had not washed his hands and was made to go and do so.

On the P&O ships we sometimes sit people watching from our balcony whilst in port.

We see passengers get off coaches and the staff at the bottom of the gangway squirt all passengers hands.

Later a bus may arrive with just a few ships crew or other onboard staff.

The guys on the gangway more often than not just let them on , no hand gel for them.

So from what we have seen the spread of infection is down to more than the buffet, as Mandy said "No Gel at the MDR ?

Yet a very tight control in the buffet , granted it was on two different ships.

[Eglesbrech]

Yes we too were on Aurora in June and there were no hand stations at the entrance to the MDR, which we thought was odd.

 

Once on Ventura we had lunch in the buffet where the staff were squirting gel on your hands prior to being given your tray. I collected my food then went to sit down, I forgot my cutlery and went back and was stopped again to use the hand gel, which although annoying was well enforced.

 

Also I do wonder at the health questionnaire you have to fill in on embarkation. Would anyone who has recently been feeling unwell actually let on that this is the case?

 

I suspect that these questionnaires are a complete waste of paper and simply a fig leaf for all cruise lines. I also suspect that few people would report an illness if they were now on the mend. I think I have only once seen someone taken aside because of the content of their health questionnaire.

 

Those with a conscience, if they have been ill a day or so before, will self isolate once onboard or avoid the buffet etc, others will just do what they do and to heck with everyone else.

 

The other issue on a ship is that you can often see people vomiting but is it noro or in the wrong sea conditions just seas sickness.

 

Most cruise lines admit to the odd outbreak of noro but has anyone ever heard of any cruise line admitting to food poisoning? Noro is a potentially convenient cloak for food poisoning as the symptoms are similar.

[so,ton saint]

Noro can occur on any cruise ship/line

 

Some get reported more and some of that comes down to the number of people posting on CC.

 

Keith

Oriana docked this morning i heard through the grape vine small number of quest x 20 down with the norovirus and confined to there cabins.

[BrianI]

Oriana docked this morning i heard through the grape vine small number of quest x 20 down with the norovirus and confined to there cabins.

Just come off Oriana today. There was an outbreak on the last three days of the cruise. Quite what the numbers were only P&O will know but the Headliners show on the last night was cancelled as two of the group were ill.

The Peninsular cocktail party on the penultimate night was cancelled to reduce risk of contamination.

Brian

[Selbourne]

Other tell-tale signs when you are on board are if you see a tray with paper plates and plastic cutlery outside a cabin or you see stewards going in dressed in 'coveralls' and a face mask! Pleased to say I have never had it either. I always use a towel to open doors if i use a public loo on-board. Whilst anti-bacterial wipes guard against some things, they don't help with noro. The clue is in the name noroVIRUS.

 

I’ve never noticed the paper plates and plastic cutlery but have seen the coveralls and face masks. It looked as though there had been a chemical attack! Good point about using a paper towel to open the door when exiting the public toilets. My wife and I do this every single time yet, although there are signs asking people to do this, I rarely see anybody else doing it.

 

As a general point, we have done 3 Cruises on 3 different P&O ships this year (Ventura, Aurora and Britannia) and we noticed on all 3 how lax the hand gel prevention was. We didn’t notice any crew enforcement anywhere and it was all voluntary with very little adherence. In previous years it has been difficult to avoid it.

[davecttr]

There are hand gels and foams available that claim to kill viruses as well as bacteria. I use one I bought from boots. The problem is they can't claim to kill norovirus because apparently the virus cannot be grown outside the body so the effectiveness of anti viral products cannot be tested on it. the nearest they can get is to test against a related cat virus!.

 

Of course the best solution is to frequently wash your hands as it is the mechanical scrubbing that removes the viral particles from the skin. Avoid touching door handles etc, use a paper towel, I also use paper napkins to handle the utensils in the buffet and before I eat I use the anti viral foam.

 

Controversially I observe that older passengers are less likely to use the washing facilities but that does not include me and I am 66

[Goosebear Mum]

I had c.diff back in 2002 after infected chicken on a work night out. I am now careful but not obsessive, as my stomach remains less immune to bugs. I’ve never Noro to my knowledge. I put the tv handset in a bag (its often grubby) I wipe the cabin door handles on arrival. We don’t use the public toilets for a few days till we know whether anyone has brought on and spread Noro. We DO use the buffet for all breakfasts and lunches and occasional evening meals. We wash our hands in the buffet rather than always using the hand sanitiser (in fact on one cruise recently they were no longer pushing the hand cleaner as they found it made no difference apparently to Noro rates... maybe sanitiser gives too many people a false sense of security into not hand washing... I’ll see at Christmas whether this is still the case.)

[AnOnymously]

I personally think the biggest problem for spread is in the insects on board like ants, cockroaches and flies. They all eat waste including human and are notoriously difficult to control. Like no airplane is without roaches, they live in the shell of the plane, often said bugs on holiday are caught on the plane, I think all cruise liners, hotels and large living establishments are all infected and it depends on how much the owners keep on top of them that counts.

 

There are many doubts about hand sanitisers, the bug seems to be only killed with bleach, but hand washing and being careful about what one touches is very important.

 

On our Celebrity cruise last year we took some of the cleaning cloths that are impregnated with bleach and re-cleaned our cabin, including remotes and carefully in the bathroom and continued that all cruise.

[grapau27]

I personally think the biggest problem for spread is in the insects on board like ants, cockroaches and flies. They all eat waste including human and are notoriously difficult to control. Like no airplane is without roaches, they live in the shell of the plane, often said bugs on holiday are caught on the plane, I think all cruise liners, hotels and large living establishments are all infected and it depends on how much the owners keep on top of them that counts.

 

There are many doubts about hand sanitisers, the bug seems to be only killed with bleach, but hand washing and being careful about what one touches is very important.

 

On our Celebrity cruise last year we took some of the cleaning cloths that are impregnated with bleach and re-cleaned our cabin, including remotes and carefully in the bathroom and continued that all cruise.

Do you know insects etc on board as a fact or do you just think that?

[AnOnymously]

At one time or another, we’ve all been infected with nororvirus. Some people are unfortunate enough to get it once a year, but it depends on your atmospheric conditions when it comes to your likelihood of contracting the bug. For example, norovirus is especially common on cruise ships. You can think of a cruise ship as a human petri dish when it comes to spreading the bug. It’s most commonly spread human to human when an unfortunate victim comes into contact with a surface that is contaminated with the virus. Sometimes it’s spread through the air when walking into an area that someone recently vomited or had diarrhea in. Door handles, counter-tops, shaking hands, and infected food preparation handlers are the most common ways the disease is spread. But what about pests like insects and rodents? How common is it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Indeed, the answer would be yes, pests such as fleas, mosquitoes, flies, rodents, and cockroaches all can transmit the disease to humans. In fact, it’s more common than you might think as often times pests that are responsible for spreading the disease are not recognized for doing so. A simple yet disgusting scenario for pests involvement in the spread of nororvirus would be a fly that consumes vomit. The fly then lands on food that we consume or a surface we come in contact with. The virus is highly contagious.

https://merylspestcontrol.com/norovirus-pests/

 

 

It is why I have said on Celebrity threads that i think ships get sick, because the bvugs keep the virus alive and they are difficult to eradicate.

[joro44]

Just returned from an eighteen nighter on the Oriana. There was a degree of noro from the start as hand gelling was the order of the day. However, matters got worse as the cruise continued with full preventative measures in the buffet, MDRs and public toilet doors locked open. Letter from the Doc and broadcasts from the Captain explained the need for all to be hygienic. A seasoned cruiser said that many crew members were affected, including two members of the theatre group.

Perhaps the numerous 'gold braided' waiters should take a more proactive approach to passengers violating the hygiene norms, than just prancing up and down supervising their hard working juniors.

I understand that if the extent of an outbreak exceeds a certain percentage of those on board, it has to be reported, is this both in GBR and USA?

[jeanlyon]

I have been on board 4 times when noro was on the ship, never succumbed to it. I do still use the buffet. When you think how many people are actually infected, it is quite small considering the number of people on the ship.

[madison quest]

we have just returned from a cruise on Ventura and I contracted noro in the last three days of the cruise, it is one of the most horrendous things to get and I'm sure would be very serious indeed for some one elderly. my sides and ribs still ache after three days of heaving and I am still only eating dry toast as its all I can tolerate. my husband has now developed the symptoms and has not eaten for two days.

 

the crew did indeed come to the cabin dressed in their space suits, some were more through than others at their cleaning duties. but I would not have fancied there job for the world.

 

apparently there was 27 of us afflicted on this cruise but I cannot be certain of these numbers as they didn't confirm these numbers, only got the information from the space cleaners.

 

p&o were deep steam cleaning the ship as we left and all people were being requested to leave the ship even those doing the back to back cruises.

 

me: I was just very relieved to get home and get some rest in my own armchair I would not have stayed on board even had it been free. I certainly hope to never have to go through that again.

[tjwa]

I think everyone in the cabin should be confined. What is the point of confining someone when the other occupant happily spreads the virus around the ship

 

Because the major cause is food poisoning and not noro virus.

[grapau27]

we have just returned from a cruise on Ventura and I contracted noro in the last three days of the cruise, it is one of the most horrendous things to get and I'm sure would be very serious indeed for some one elderly. my sides and ribs still ache after three days of heaving and I am still only eating dry toast as its all I can tolerate. my husband has now developed the symptoms and has not eaten for two days.

 

the crew did indeed come to the cabin dressed in their space suits, some were more through than others at their cleaning duties. but I would not have fancied there job for the world.

 

apparently there was 27 of us afflicted on this cruise but I cannot be certain of these numbers as they didn't confirm these numbers, only got the information from the space cleaners.

 

p&o were deep steam cleaning the ship as we left and all people were being requested to leave the ship even those doing the back to back cruises.

 

me: I was just very relieved to get home and get some rest in my own armchair I would not have stayed on board even had it been free. I certainly hope to never have to go through that again.

We are very sorry to hear you had noro,my wife had it once after she got off Sea Princess.and it was horrendous.

When you see people coming out of a toilet cubicle and don't wash their hands you will call them back in future.

[Selbourne]

Because the major cause is food poisoning and not noro virus.

 

Whilst the original cause from the person first affected may be related to food poisoning, the rapid spread is caused by the infected person(s) touching surfaces (handles, hand rails, serving tongs etc) or even air borne if they have vomited in an area that you enter. Revolting though it sounds, the spread is caused by bodily fluids and poor personal hygiene, and is sadly relatively common on cruise ships, particularly during winter months. Food poisoning is a different issue and thankfully rarer.

[tjwa]

Whilst the original cause from the person first affected may be related to food poisoning, the rapid spread is caused by the infected person(s) touching surfaces (handles, hand rails, serving tongs etc) or even air borne if they have vomited in an area that you enter. Revolting though it sounds, the spread is caused by bodily fluids and poor personal hygiene, and is sadly relatively common on cruise ships, particularly during winter months. Food poisoning is a different issue and thankfully rarer.

 

The rapid spread is caused by eating the same food.

[tartanexile81]

We had a Noro outbreak at work and it was caused by sharing / touching the same things. This was a school and the nursery staff has to sterilise all the toys and for a few days at least limit what children could use. Older children were issued with their own pencils and pens and had to keep all their own stuff on their table. The caretaker spent all day every day with anti-viral spray cleaning everything. However just by 270 children + 40 staff being there, in the same building touching handles and each other we were passing it on inadvertently. I had to report every day how many children were absent and how many new cases had been reported. Luckily half-term came so it died out. However from personal experience I know now how hard it is to eliminate

[Selbourne]

The rapid spread is caused by eating the same food.

 

With respect, you are confusing Norovirus with food poisoning. Norovirus can spread through food, but only if an infected person touches the actual food with faeces or other bodily fluids on their hands. That is far less likely than the other primary causes. On cruise ships, the spread is caused almost exclusively by uninflected persons touching surfaces which have been contaminated by an infected person or air borne particles. I’m afraid that your statement that the rapid spread of Norovirus is caused by people eating the same food is incorrect and misleading for those who do not understand what it is and how it spreads.

[AnOnymously]

With respect, you are confusing Norovirus with food poisoning. Norovirus can spread through food, but only if an infected person touches the actual food with faeces or other bodily fluids on their hands. That is far less likely than the other primary causes. On cruise ships, the spread is caused almost exclusively by uninflected persons touching surfaces which have been contaminated by an infected person or air borne particles. I’m afraid that your statement that the rapid spread of Norovirus is caused by people eating the same food is incorrect and misleading for those who do not understand what it is and how it spreads.

It can also be spread by flies and other insects that land on say infected vomit and then go and flit and fly on the prepared food which is ready to be served.

[showingdiva]

Norovirus, like so many other viruses, bacteria etc, is becoming more and more resistant to any measures used to attempt to combat it. As others on this thread have mentioned, it's certainly not confined to cruise ships - anywhere with a lower immune threshold .. hospitals, nursing homes and schools are just as susceptible. Of course, no-one wants their cruise spoiled by an outbreak, but like most people, I have also witnessed incidences of lack of hygiene. I can only share some of the methods we employ in the hospital to try to minimise it when on board

* Take a pack of antibacterial wipes and as soon as aboard, wipe all cabin door handles, including balcony ones - and the TV remote control and phone.

* Don't use public toilets unless really necessary. Only use own cabin toilet.

* Don't press lift buttons with fingers - use your elbow

* Carry a pocket size sanitizer. I know no sanitizer protects 100%, but it may just make the difference, especially after sitting down to eat in the buffet after collecting food.

[AnOnymously]

Norovirus, like so many other viruses, bacteria etc, is becoming more and more resistant to any measures used to attempt to combat it. As others on this thread have mentioned, it's certainly not confined to cruise ships - anywhere with a lower immune threshold .. hospitals, nursing homes and schools are just as susceptible. Of course, no-one wants their cruise spoiled by an outbreak, but like most people, I have also witnessed incidences of lack of hygiene. I can only share some of the methods we employ in the hospital to try to minimise it when on board

* Take a pack of antibacterial wipes and as soon as aboard, wipe all cabin door handles, including balcony ones - and the TV remote control and phone.

* Don't use public toilets unless really necessary. Only use own cabin toilet.

* Don't press lift buttons with fingers - use your elbow

* Carry a pocket size sanitizer. I know no sanitizer protects 100%, but it may just make the difference, especially after sitting down to eat in the buffet after collecting food.

Antibacterial wipes will not touch a virus.

We take bleach based wipes with us to thoroughly clean the cabin, toilets, remote control and most of the cabin. Bleach based products are one of the few things that will kill noro.

[Emmandjay]

We use wipes from a company called Clinell, and as others have said, we wipe everything touchable in the cabin as soon as we get in there and each day when we return from ashore. Whilst Clinell do not claim to be 100 per cent effective, I was pleased to see that the same packs were in use throughout our local A&E when I was there earlier this year.

Good personal hygiene and luck play a big part.

[Selbourne]

It can also be spread by flies and other insects that land on say infected vomit and then go and flit and fly on the prepared food which is ready to be served.

 

Yes, I know. Revolting thought isn’t it. Thankfully, this means of transmission of Norovirus is also far less likely on a cruise ship than in a land based environment. One of the things that I enjoy about a cruise is that you don’t get the numbers of flies and bugs in your cabin or around the food areas that you get when on a land based holiday. There are indeed many ways that Norovirus can spread, but the principal reasons for infection spread (and frequency) on a cruise ship are well know and explain why, when there is an outbreak, the ships staff obsessively clean surfaces that passengers touch (hand rails, door handles, lift controls, public toilets etc) and serve passengers in buffets rather than letting them all pick up serving tongs.