LCV changes?

[combine]

At the highest level - Platinum I think it would be nice if the onboard benefits were nearer Celebrity. I accept there has to be an offset in the value of the onboard booking benefit which Celebrity doesn’t offer. Maybe a menu of choices. - say two from Unlimited Internet, unlimited laundry, upgraded drinks, booking discount etc. I also think as two of us have paid to develop loyalty the laundry perk should be per person not per room.

 

 

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Thankyou

[Grandma Cruising]

At the highest level - Platinum I think it would be nice if the onboard benefits were nearer Celebrity. I accept there has to be an offset in the value of the onboard booking benefit which Celebrity doesn’t offer. Maybe a menu of choices. - say two from Unlimited Internet, unlimited laundry, upgraded drinks, booking discount etc. I also think as two of us have paid to develop loyalty the laundry perk should be per person not per room.

 

 

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If you look at the onboard savings terms and conditions on the LCV website for the new “Cruise Again” offer it is clear that loyalty is being rewarded.

“ Onboard Booking Offer” is a percent saving based on Le Club Voyage (LCV) loyalty level or first-time Azamara voyage. Adventurer guests 4%, Explorer 5%, Discoverer 6%, Discoverer Plus 7%, Discoverer Platinum 10% for each qualifying booking made onboard Azamara Club Cruises while offer is available.”

 

 

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[Grandma Cruising]

Unfortunately Discoverer Plus members do not get the 1% increase for booking onboard. All levels below Discoverer Plus get this increase.

 

See my post above.

 

 

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[uktog]

If you look at the onboard savings terms and conditions on the LCV website for the new “Cruise Again” offer it is clear that loyalty is being rewarded.

“ Onboard Booking Offer” is a percent saving based on Le Club Voyage (LCV) loyalty level or first-time Azamara voyage. Adventurer guests 4%, Explorer 5%, Discoverer 6%, Discoverer Plus 7%, Discoverer Platinum 10% for each qualifying booking made onboard Azamara Club Cruises while offer is available.”

 

 

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Again I have to disagree with the sentiment of your post. No increase in discount has been applied to the higher levels of Discoverer Plus and Platinum. That’s not accidental it’s a deliberate decision by Azamara and in the absence of communication of the rationale one can perhaps surmise that they see no need to review how they reward their most loyal guests. Remember the previous experiment (that did not last long) also was focussed on the less loyal guests.

 

I am just reflecting things as I see them from my perspective though perhaps some communication on what’s happening from Azamara would change that view.

 

 

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Edited January 27, 2018 by uktog

[excitedofharpenden]

All levels up to Discoverer get an extra one percent for booking onboard. Discoverer Plus and Platinum get no increase. That is not equitable and doesn’t reward loyalty.

 

 

Phil

[procter]

I agree with Uktog and Excited.

How can it be sensible to NOT reward your most loyal customers.

If anything they should be prioritised for loyalty

As a Discoverer Plus it shows that Azamara is believing it can take it's most loyal customers for granted.

A dangerous game when you consider how often the loyal ones must have cruised and continue to cruise.

Uktog has already cancelled one cruise because of Azamara's problems in some areas.

[Riocca]

All levels up to Discoverer get an extra one percent for booking onboard. Discoverer Plus and Platinum get no increase. That is not equitable and doesn’t reward loyalty.

 

 

 

 

 

Phil

 

 

 

Have to say I agree if you look at it logically based on the amount of points you have to obtain to achieve each level it’s certainly not equitable.

You probably need to work from the top however, it’s unlikely that there would more than 10% for the top level although to my mind 12% would not be unreasonable.

To obtain Discoverer level you need 750 points and the reward is now 6% discount, Discoverer Plus requires an additional 750 points and the additional discount for doing so is 1%. Platinum requires an additional 1500 points and is rewarded with an additional 3%.

This now seems to be designed to entice newer Azamara cruisers to book more whilst assuming those at higher levels will continue to do so. Having introduced and administered loyalty schemes in the past I appreciate the problems of keeping everyone happy, after all these schemes are actually not to reward loyalty but to entice customers to keep purchasing your product. However if they are to be successful they need to be fair and make customers think that they are appreciated.

 

 

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[excitedofharpenden]

This now seems to be designed to entice newer Azamara cruisers to book more whilst assuming those at higher levels will continue to do so. Having introduced and administered loyalty schemes in the past I appreciate the problems of keeping everyone happy, after all these schemes are actually not to reward loyalty but to entice customers to keep purchasing your product. However if they are to be successful they need to be fair and make customers think that they are appreciated.

Got it in one!

 

Phil

[Riocca]

Got it in one!

 

 

 

Phil

 

 

 

Putting my commercial hat on I always thought that the linking of loyalty discounts with onboard sales was wrong and going to cause problems in time.

Currently the Azamara onboard sales staff have very little to entice first time guests to book on board with at the very time people are most likely to book another cruise. Therefore from a sensible commercial prospective the “trial” on Quest was a good thing however it was never going to please long time Azamara cruisers.

If it was my train set I would separate loyalty discount from onboard bookings, introduce past passenger discounts and onboard booking perks for all. Other cruise lines do so successfully Princess used to excel in this area, cost isn’t really an issue as all these things are built into the price we pay.

 

 

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[Belfastman]

Putting my commercial hat on I always thought that the linking of loyalty discounts with onboard sales was wrong and going to cause problems in time.

Currently the Azamara onboard sales staff have very little to entice first time guests to book on board with at the very time people are most likely to book another cruise. Therefore from a sensible commercial prospective the “trial” on Quest was a good thing however it was never going to please long time Azamara cruisers.

If it was my train set I would separate loyalty discount from onboard bookings, introduce past passenger discounts and onboard booking perks for all. Other cruise lines do so successfully Princess used to excel in this area, cost isn’t really an issue as all these things are built into the price we pay.

 

 

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When I look at the roll calls it is obvious that several loyal customers have several booking made so Azamara know these people will book anyway so no need to enhance the benefits. The only way to make your point is to stop booking further cruises but even then it is only a small number of people who I'm sure Azamara would not miss.

 

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[Grandma Cruising]

It seems to me that if you get a considerably higher discount at the top level (10% as opposed to 7% at the level below), then loyalty is being rewarded.

 

 

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[marinaro44]

It seems to me that if you get a considerably higher discount at the top level (10% as opposed to 7% at the level below), then loyalty is being rewarded.

 

 

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I agree, Grandma. The general tone of this thread [i want more for me! I want more for me!] is depressing. Some here are never going to be satisfied no matter what Azamara does.

[rabin1]

There is another thing to consider, I have never been on an Azamara ship and will be for the first time in April. I will be walking on as Discover as I am Diamond Plus with RCCL. So even though I would only be doing one new sailing in April if I booked a new booking I would get the 6%. The status is reciprocal, the points are not. So they are losing on some people and making money on the others. Name of the game is profit. As long as people are happy and book and Azamara makes money there will be no need to change. It is all what we perceive is a good deal/value. Because I booked this particular cruise over a year ago I paid $9000 less than they are asking now. To me that is a great awesome deal

 

Kathy

[uktog]

It seems to me that if you get a considerably higher discount at the top level (10% as opposed to 7% at the level below), then loyalty is being rewarded.

 

 

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So you think it’s absolutely fair that the lowest three tiers have had their incentives increased and the highest two, those with greatest loyalty have not?

 

Again, I’d like to hear Azamara’s rationale so I can understand it.

 

Marinaro, I’m sorry you are offended that I want to understand the rationale. You are totally wrong though in your perspective of where my thoughts on Azamara lie. I do recall not long ago you were wanting special dinners to recognise your loyalty, whilst I did not agree with that I realise that was your wish for recognition was onboard but for others this may not be the case.

 

Maybe the reason for some of the negativity is that whereas two, three years ago Azamara came quickly to these boards and explained what was happening and why as soon as changes were happening, that communication is now sadly missing. Some might not have liked the changes, but at least we knew why and that often changed perspectives. We no longer have that level of communication.

 

Some may personally have a back door to information but most of us do not and would welcome a return to the level of communication of the past.

 

Maybe if we understood why the top two tiers had not had the same level of increase we too might agree it’s the right thing to do but currently in the absence of explanations it is a negative reaction.

 

If these reaction offend, I’m sorry but not everyone has the perfection view of Azamara

 

 

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[bob278]

I have a slightly different view of the discount and at the higher levels. My wife and I have reached the top level (although well over half of our points are from Celebrity so we won't benefit from the free nights and, I suspect, there are many others in the same situation).

 

We have 8 cruises with Azamara with 7 of those coming in the last 2 years. We also have 6 booked between now and July 2019. Of those, at least two will be cancelled and it is possible that 2 others will fall off as well.

 

My take on the loyalty program is right in line with Riocca. I have always understood that loyalty programs are NOT rewards programs, they are business-generators. I have no problem with that. I expect a business to do the same thing I do - try to get value for money spent. I look for the most value for my cruising dollar and Azamara looks for the highest return on their marketing investment (and, at the end of the day, the loyalty program is just another marketing tool).

 

As a customer, I don't care where in the equation (product inclusions, additional perks for past history or for booking a higher-priced cabin) the value lies, I want the total package to be worth the check I write. If the benefits are increasing only for lower tiers, that would imply that Azamara believes the higher level folks are already addicted. While the loyalty perks are not the main reason (or shouldn't be) to choose to sail again, many people may feel they will never progress to the top two tiers and will look elsewhere whereas, if they had an achievable dangling carrot, they may not even consider an alternative.

 

It is clear to me from how things are structured that Azamara places their first priority on current over past spending (notice that the perks for CC and up are better on board than the highest level LCV, ie internet and laundry). And that's OK since we prefer the extra room and inclusions so they've got us in that regard.

 

But it is even more clear when looking at the discounts. It is a larger step up to the two top tiers and it sure seems like Azamara assumes people are going to keep on sailing and they don't have to scale the rewards. Again, that's OK because the free nights (for those who qualify) add more to those levels. It's just another indicator to me.

 

What is potentially driving us away is that they don't seem to feel that they have to include suites in most promotions. Two cruises that illustrate that are the May 12, 2019 Quest Tokyo-Seward and May 25th Seward to Vancouver. They are included in the BOGOHO but not for suites, even though about 11 of 34 of the N1 and N2 cabins are available on the first leg and 9 of 34 on the second. In the VX category cabins (which are included), there are 5 of 8 on the first leg and only 2 of 8 on the second, So the argument I was given that suites are excluded because they are selling well doesn't seem logical to me.

 

We booked them while on board so we did get the 10% discount but it was at the very limit of my cost comfort zone. We can go from Tokyo to Vancouver (10 fewer days) but for about $16,000 less. If we were not in a suite, we could save another 25%, keeping us for sure. As it stands, these two cruises are probably going to be canceled. Not because I am upset that other folks are getting to take advantage of a sale, it's just that the cost convinced me to investigate other options.

 

As top level in Celebrity's loyalty program, we get unlimited internet and laundry and premium drink package, regardless of cabin category booked. It sure looks like Celebrity considers loyalty at least as important as current spending. In the latest promotion, suites do get unlimited internet and basic drink package plus OBC and gratuities so the perks are comparable for loyalty and higher spending. The loyalty perks don't get the OBC or gratuities but it is still not as great a difference and we do get significant discounts on specialty restaurants. That is not the case with Azamara and that's the weakness some folks here (including me) are talking about.

 

And I'm definitely in tune with Ann on cumminications. In just the past few years I've seen a serious decline. It's their business and, as a customer, I think it is reasonable to be told why changes are made. We don't have a say in the changes, but we are more likely to accept them (however grudgingly) if we understand the rationale.

[Host Jazzbeau]

As top level in Celebrity's loyalty program, we get unlimited internet and laundry and premium drink package, regardless of cabin category booked. It sure looks like Celebrity considers loyalty at least as important as current spending. In the latest promotion, suites do get unlimited internet and basic drink package plus OBC and gratuities so the perks are comparable for loyalty and higher spending. The loyalty perks don't get the OBC or gratuities but it is still not as great a difference and we do get significant discounts on specialty restaurants. That is not the case with Azamara and that's the weakness some folks here (including me) are talking about.

 

But Celebrity Suites get Luminae restaurant, which no level of loyalty gets you. Azamara doesn't do that for suites [gratis specialty restaurants isn't the same, especially since the food in Azamara's specialties isn't that difference from the excellent main dining room] -- so there is more of a balance.

[bob278]

But Celebrity Suites get Luminae restaurant, which no level of loyalty gets you. Azamara doesn't do that for suites [gratis specialty restaurants isn't the same, especially since the food in Azamara's specialties isn't that difference from the excellent main dining room] -- so there is more of a balance.

They do and Luminae is a wonderful perk. I agree that the suites get a lot more than the lesser categories, but they do not always get all the other perks, just on promotions (although they are frequent). On the other hand, the suite perk of specialty restaurants has a pretty obvious dollar value that further increases the difference between what current money buys over loyalty.

 

I still maintain that the loyalty perks on Celebrity indicate a much higher corporate regard for loyalty than Azamara's as they provide many of the suite perks regardless of category booked.

 

A Zenith member can book an inside cabin and have the premium drinks, unlimited internet, unlimited laundry and access to the Michael's Club with a dedicated concierge.

 

But even with that belief, when I can find a deal, my wife and I prefer Azamara (but at essentially full price the product is not so much better that it is an automatic choice). I will gladly pay more for a roughly equivalent Azamara itinerary, but not 40-50% more which is typical without a really good promotion.

[takemewithyou]

Without the communication we used to get from Azamara on changes in practices, policies, schedules, officers, etc., the negativity is allowed to flourish.....would be nice to hear more “official word”.

Edited January 28, 2018 by takemewithyou

[Riocca]

I hypothesise that what we are seeing is growing pains and a necessary change of emphasis. Azamara now has 50% more capacity to sell, previously the aim seems to have been existing customer retention and attracting customers from Celebrity. There’s no was that they are going to persuade existing customers to cruise 50% more, especially at current prices, so they have to not only attract new customers but retain them.

Most on here have a background cruising with Celebrity, although we booked Azamara before we took our first Celebrity cruise, so came to Azamara with a higher level of loyalty than would be normal.

According to reports, especially from the U.K., booking levels are currently high, only Azamara will know if these are new customers or not but our recent cruise experience would indicate that many are. Therefore the challenge is to retain these customers and booking onboard with attractive offers is one of the best ways to do this.

Unfortunately the current system is designed for customer retention and offers little to new customers so I think changes are inevitable. Working in the framework of Celebrity’s Captains Club has been a help in the past but in the future that may be a hindrance, tinkering around the edges is going to please no one. Probably now is the time for Azamara to clearly communicate there intentions ongoing, nobody likes change but its inevitable so don’t try to sneak things in under the radar, communicate, customers will understand.

Not even sure if it’s feasible but is now the time for Azamara to have it’s own independent loyalty scheme?

 

 

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[uktog]

I hypothesise that what we are seeing is growing pains and a necessary change of emphasis. Azamara now has 50% more capacity to sell, previously the aim seems to have been existing customer retention and attracting customers from Celebrity. There’s no was that they are going to persuade existing customers to cruise 50% more, especially at current prices, so they have to not only attract new customers but retain them.

Most on here have a background cruising with Celebrity, although we booked Azamara before we took our first Celebrity cruise, so came to Azamara with a higher level of loyalty than would be normal.

According to reports, especially from the U.K., booking levels are currently high, only Azamara will know if these are new customers or not but our recent cruise experience would indicate that many are. Therefore the challenge is to retain these customers and booking onboard with attractive offers is one of the best ways to do this.

Unfortunately the current system is designed for customer retention and offers little to new customers so I think changes are inevitable. Working in the framework of Celebrity’s Captains Club has been a help in the past but in the future that may be a hindrance, tinkering around the edges is going to please no one. Probably now is the time for Azamara to clearly communicate there intentions ongoing, nobody likes change but its inevitable so don’t try to sneak things in under the radar, communicate, customers will understand.

Not even sure if it’s feasible but is now the time for Azamara to have it’s own independent loyalty scheme?

 

 

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Great post.

Communicate and be honest, no spin/window dressing. You will regain/retain far more respect and loyalty that way.

 

 

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[excitedofharpenden]

Has anyone seen that the Azamara Passages percentages have changed formally or whether this is just a local policy on Quest or another "trial"? I've checked the website and it's still quoted as 3, 4, 5, 7 and 10% in the terms and conditions. This might be out of date. I also found a page with $$$ savings written by Bill Leiber that was ages old.

 

Phil

[Riocca]

Has anyone seen that the Azamara Passages percentages have changed formally or whether this is just a local policy on Quest or another "trial"? I've checked the website and it's still quoted as 3, 4, 5, 7 and 10% in the terms and conditions. This might be out of date. I also found a page with $$$ savings written by Bill Leiber that was ages old.

 

 

 

Phil

 

 

 

Just battled the web site to see and found this https://www.azamaraclubcruises.co.uk/luxury-cruise-deals/cruise-again

So first timers now get 3% discount for onboard bookings, must be new as it also mentioned the extra OBC for booking during the first half of the cruise.

If you look under terms & conditions you will see the new discounts are official.

 

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[excitedofharpenden]

Just battled the web site to see and found this https://www.azamaraclubcruises.co.uk/luxury-cruise-deals/cruise-again

So first timers now get 3% discount for onboard bookings, must be new as it also mentioned the extra OBC for booking during the first half of the cruise.

If you look under terms & conditions you will see the new discounts are official.

 

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Thanks John. They don’t make it easy. Gawd, why don’t they take the old pages down? It makes the website search function a farce. Indeed. Change by stealth.

 

I really hate being negative about Azamara because I really enjoy the experience onboard, but they make it easy for me. I’ve just discovered another pricing anomaly on the website. If you go to Pursuit's March 20th 2019 cruise from Rio to Lisbon the price for a single in a balcony is the same price as double occupancy even though it has a single savings offer attached to it. Change to a suite and it shows the saving. This is the third or fourth time I’ve spotted it. I’ve raised it with the UK office in the past and it’s been adjusted, but I’m fed up it keeps happening. My faith in basic stuff like this is zero.

 

Ok, enough. Sunday morning rant over!

 

Phil

[Riocca]

Thanks John. They don’t make it easy. Gawd, why don’t they take the old pages down? It makes the website search function a farce. Indeed. Change by stealth.

 

 

 

I really hate being negative about Azamara because I really enjoy the experience onboard, but they make it easy for me. I’ve just discovered another pricing anomaly on the website. If you go to Pursuit's March 20th 2019 cruise from Rio to Lisbon the price for a single in a balcony is the same price as double occupancy even though it has a single savings offer attached to it. Change to a suite and it shows the saving. This is the third or fourth time I’ve spotted it. I’ve raised it with the UK office in the past and it’s been adjusted, but I’m fed up it keeps happening. My faith in basic stuff like this is zero.

 

 

 

Ok, enough. Sunday morning rant over!

 

 

 

Phil

 

 

 

Hope you feel better for that Phil.

Web site woes are not the exclusive preserve of Azamara I’ve yet to come across a Cruise line who’s website either has functionality or is error free. To be honest Azamara’s for all it’s errors is one of the easier to navigate.

I really don’t understand why companies that have such a high tech customer focused product don’t invest in websites that are customer friendly. After all the pre cruise experience is just as important as the onboard experience.

 

 

 

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[uktog]

My background is in industries and now government where legal compliance is paramount and customer facing websites have to be 100% accurate all the time. With the right processes and mindset when you are putting up information at the outset or making changes thereafter it’s very easy to get it right and consistent all the time even with awful legacy systems. But there are significant internal and external consequences if you don’t.

 

Cruise lines don’t have that imperative but could choose to adopt that mindset.

 

How the mantra “one version of the truth” rings in my ears as I type this :)

 

 

 

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