The evolution of cruise "specialty" pay venues

[tinkertwo]

It certainly is nothing new and I have not even remotely stated such, however the fact remains it continues trending the wrong way. Like others have stated, it would seem we are being conditioned to pay extra for our meals, so much so the main dining rooms are on the verge of being totally eliminated. With the current trend it will soon be buffet or pay extra.

Sorry your cruising memory can only date to (2001), in essence disqualifying you from the discussion.

Where, in heavens name, are you getting that idea? Can it be backed up? I doubt it because the newest ship, still being built, has the same MDR that is on the other Oasis class ships. That certainly does not say 'MDR's are on the verge of being totally eliminated'. I respect your thoughts, your opinions are as good as mine or anyone's for that matter, but you can't just make up facts.

So, did I miss something that others know and I don't?

[Snit13]

I for one would rather pay for a cheaper cruise in general and then be able to splurge on a specialty restaurant if I want to. I also like the option of being able to get a table for two or a table for 10 depending on if I am feeling social or not. I also like being able to decide when I want to eat with anytime dining. Many others feel the same way I do and would rather cruise this way instead of being forced to eat at the same time each night with the same people with better main dining room food without an up charge.

 

 

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Totally agree. Not a pleasure to be crammed into MDR and served food barely fit to eat. I am willing and able to pay for a "Dining Experience." I am aware that not all who cruise are able to pay for Specialty restaurants. I do however agree the pricing is getting out of control.

[LMaxwell]

Where, in heavens name, are you getting that idea? Can it be backed up? I doubt it because the newest ship, still being built, has the same MDR that is on the other Oasis class ships. That certainly does not say 'MDR's are on the verge of being totally eliminated'. I respect your thoughts, your opinions are as good as mine or anyone's for that matter, but you can't just make up facts.

So, did I miss something that others know and I don't?

 

There are contemporary ships, such as Quantum class, and competitor ships which do not have a traditional MDR or two MDR's which can accommodate all guests in two seatings. Smaller rooms, themed rooms. Not necessarily Oasis class; but larger ships in general are moving towards a trend of smaller MDR's and increased upcharge venues. You don't typically see other dinner fare restaurants being added at no additional charge.

[tinkertwo]

There are contemporary ships, such as Quantum class, and competitor ships which do not have a traditional MDR or two MDR's which can accommodate all guests in two seatings. Smaller rooms, themed rooms. Not necessarily Oasis class; but larger ships in general are moving towards a trend of smaller MDR's and increased upcharge venues. You don't typically see other dinner fare restaurants being added at no additional charge.

 

Thank you for the information. I will say that while I have never sailed on a Quantum ship I did seriously look at the Quantum of the seas. I did notice that the MDR's are only on two levels but they didn't look like they had less seating. To my eyes, and I will admit I'm not an expert by any means, it actually looked like there was more MDR room.

Again, thanks for the information. I'll be on the look out for this going forward.

[CarpeCerevisi]

If there has been a drastic decline in MDR food, and I am not one who can properly judge that, keep in mind that prior to the Voyager class the kitchens were serving from around 700 to 1000 people per seating on most ships. Now they are serving two to three times that. Even with increased kitchen sizes and cook staff the food prep has to have become more of an assembly line than it used to be.

 

Then, there is the matter of less wait staff in the MDR per table which means food sitting on carts or under heat lamps for longer periods of time. I wonder if they have actually reduced wait staff or if they’ve spread the same numbers across all the various venues.

 

 

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[Merion_Mom]

Quantum of the Seas, and then Anthem, were designed with Dynamic Dining. That required four separate dining rooms with different décor to match the cuisine that was being served there. Ovation, being a third Quantum class ship, also has the same dining rooms although I believe that it has never had Dynamic Dining.

 

The overall capacity of the four dining rooms is less in terms of the ship's capacity than other ships in the fleet, on the assumption by RC that more shifts/seatings could be accommodated in each room per dining time. That turned out not to be true, which is part of the reason for the back-ups and logjams that occurred.

 

That having been said, I don't see this as some nefarious plot on the part of RC to eliminate the MDR. It was just a plan for Dynamic Dining.

[Merion_Mom]

The cruise lines certainly could bring the MDR dining experience up to the level of the specialty restaurants. Now, how many do you think would welcome paying another $70 dollars a day in cruise fare?

 

When the threads about the "declining quality of food in the MDR" started, there was always someone who would ask, "How much more would you pay in cruise fare to bring back better food in the MDR?" or "I would certainly pay more to know that I would be getting better food in the MDR".

 

Well, Royal Caribbean listened to that.

 

They now offer the Ultimate Dining Package, which is exactly that. You eat in specialty restaurants every night, plus lunches on sea days. There is one flat price for the cruise. Voila! Instant add-on to the cruise fare and you get upgraded food every night and several middays.

 

And it's way less than $70 a day. (I just checked. It's $24 a day, without figuring in lunches.)

 

It seems to be popular.

 

:)

Edited February 4, 2018 by Merion_Mom

[LMaxwell]

Thank you for the information. I will say that while I have never sailed on a Quantum ship I did seriously look at the Quantum of the seas. I did notice that the MDR's are only on two levels but they didn't look like they had less seating. To my eyes, and I will admit I'm not an expert by any means, it actually looked like there was more MDR room.

Again, thanks for the information. I'll be on the look out for this going forward.

 

I am going from memory here but Quantum class has 4 different complementary dining rooms that each has a capacity of 430 people. So about 1700 when full; figure they can turn tables over once and that doubles to 3400 people. Capacity of the ship is 4200 (double occupancy) to 4900 max.

 

There are other complementary venues such as the Windjammer and such, but as you an see the capacity of included sit down w service included in your fare dining was designed to accommodate 70% to 80% of cruisers at best / optimal conditions. This is basing on an early and late seating and not taking in My Time which makes things inherently less efficient, just wanted to provide rough numbers to illustrate the point in play.

 

This problem is being realized on the new MSC Seaside, a ship that has main dining rooms insufficient in size to accommodate all guests, apparently even at lower double occupancy numbers. The ridiculous solution is to convert (the ship has two buffets) the large buffet into a dining room with service, and relegate those wanting a casual buffet dinner to the smaller "kiddie" buffet. They COULD use the large buffet as intended and have many choices for those wanting buffet and use the small buffet for the dining room overflow, but this is a poor solution and seems aimed at driving two different sets of people towards pay venues.

 

Cruiseline Aida (coming out with some really advanced ships) do not have main dining rooms; they have 2 or 3 different buffet restaurants included in the fare, and upcharge specialty dining otherwise. Basically, no sit down w table service included in your fare.

 

There are other examples of this happening, new / recent builds from Norwegian and Carnival (Vista, Horizon) having main dining rooms that are undersized and an ever growing list of upcharge venues.

 

There is little incentive for cruise lines to continue the MDR. Many have relegated lunch, if you get it at all, to seadays only. No more midnight buffets in the dining room. I do enjoy a dining room breakfast versus a buffet, but I am probably in a minority of 10% - 15% (guessing) and breakfast isn't a revenue generator for the cruise line.

 

Imagine how many hundreds of wait staff could be eliminated, and how many more revenue berths could be opened up on a ship with the elimination of said staff. You may need to have two or three different self-service restaurants to maintain crowds and flow, but surely that won't take any more space than is in use for MDR's now.

 

I can certainly envision new ships sailing for the major lines by 2025 from US ports with majority US clientele moving to this.

[LMaxwell]

When the threads about the "declining quality of food in the MDR" started, there was always someone who would ask, "How much more would you pay in cruise fare to bring back better food in the MDR?" or "I would certainly pay more to know that I would be getting better food in the MDR".

 

Well, Royal Caribbean listened to that.

 

They now offer the Ultimate Dining Package, which is exactly that. You eat in specialty restaurants every night, plus lunches on sea days. There is one flat price for the cruise. Voila! Instant add-on to the cruise fare and you get upgraded food every night and several middays.

 

And it's way less than $70 a day.

 

It seems to be popular.

 

:)

 

Hmm, you know, I never really looked at it that way. Makes sense.

[Merion_Mom]

Hmm, you know, I never really looked at it that way. Makes sense.

Check out my edit. It works out to $24 a day.

 

How many people would book a cruise for, say, $1,015, but balk at a fare of $1,183?

 

Interesting, eh?

[Chiliburn]

I am not sure where you get the idea about not having a main dining room. We were on Harmony last August, the mdr looks a lot like the one that Oasis has. Pictures that I have seen show the same mdr on Symphony

 

I haven’t been on a oasis class,I’m referring to the quantum class.

No main dining room just the grand,silk,American icon and chick.which where originally with different themes and menus but now have the same as windjammers.

[mlbcruiser]

I believe NCL was the first popular mainstream line that started the specialty restaurant dining for a fee. We tried it back in the 1980s when it was a new thing. The restaurant was Italian, contemporary looking and small. We didn't feel it was anything "all that". It was only $5 per person then and it was supposedly to take care of the tip. (In those days there wasn't any automatic tipping and you put money in an envelope and handed out the tips yourself on your last night.) Since that time we have dined in specialty restaurants about 5 or 6 times in over 40 cruises. A few of those times were because we had a perk for a free dine. The experience and food has really varied, but I can't say the food ever knocked us off our feet. The best service was on Celebrity when we joined a young woman at our table who was traveling alone and asked those at our traditional style dining table to do it in order to help her celebrate her birthday. Well, that dinner ended up taking almost 3 hrs! The servers were careful to be sure to set each course of the meal onto the table in front of us diners at EXACTLY the same time. Almost like a performance. It WAS kind of cool, but we missed nearly all of the show that night and found the time we waited between courses far too lengthy. I believe we paid $25 each for that experience and it was some years back. Have we enjoyed the food much better? No. Has the service always been better. A couple of times yes. A couple of times definitely not. Do I regret ever NOT doing it? Yes, once on a Carnival ship that was new, and the restaurant we didn't try was a version of a well known seafood restaurant on land. The seafood entrée choices were DEFINITELY worth the cost. Why didn't we try it? Well, anytime we passed it and looked in, it appeared rather dead. Our neighbors and we had 3 junior high aged daughters along between us as well, so we decided to skip it.

 

While I understand the view of "just don't go if you don't want to", it seems that the more people are willing to pay extra, the more pay venues appear, and the the fewer options appear in the traditional restaurants. While so often, the food in the specialty restaurants isn't much (or any) better, IMO. Just sayin' . . .

[drrich2]

If in inflation-adjusted dollars the cost of cruising has dropped substantially, cruisers won't get the same product had 20 years ago for what, in buying power, was a lot more money.

 

Despite the scathing contempt some heap upon Windjammer & MDR food, some report it good in trip reports, and obviously many are content with it. Forcing everyone to pay inflated costs when some are content 'as is' seems unjust.

 

Package deal specialty restaurant packages cut the excess costs considerably, and up the dining for those who want them. Buy in advance & it's built into your costs; this alone seems to destroy the argument.

 

As to what premium people would pay in basic cruise fare for 'better food,' what people would do & what they think they'd do may not match up. I've long been annoyed by the custom of pricing $9.99 instead of $10, $999 instead of $100, etc... I take it someone in marketing looked at the psychology behind consumer buying habits, & determined creating the perception of a low base price then upselling some, works better.

 

Richard.

[SRF]

Congrats on being the first rude responder. First off, not unhappy, secondly I am simply pointing out what it used to be versus today. It used to be top service and gourmet food in the main dining room for the price of your cruise. Today, in comparison the service and food quality in the main dining room has drastically gone down hill. In order to get something even close to what it was for free, you have to go to a higher end specialty restaurant in the $40.00+pp range. To make matters worse, even low end fast food experiences have an upcharge.....example Johnny Rockets, Sabor and room service.

 

And considering inflation, the cost of a cruise has gone DOWN.

 

If you hate this so much, cruise on one of the luxury lines.

 

MANY people are happy with the no-charge food. And many enjoy the specialty restaurants, where it is quieter and less crowded.

 

And it seems, either you accepted these changes, or if not, you are not cruising on Royal, and just came here to stir up trouble.

[rolloman]

And considering inflation, the cost of a cruise has gone DOWN.

 

If you hate this so much, cruise on one of the luxury lines.

 

MANY people are happy with the no-charge food. And many enjoy the specialty restaurants, where it is quieter and less crowded.

 

And it seems, either you accepted these changes, or if not, you are not cruising on Royal, and just came here to stir up trouble.

 

Again....where did I say I hated anything? It is an observation and a topic for cruise critic. The trend is moving towards the initial fare gets you onboard...period. A couple more observations....Look at NCL, they now even charge for the private island buffet for those disembarking at their new Belize island. Look at Carnival, now you are asked when you want your room cleaned. Take an avid cruiser from 20 years ago and time warp them to a ship today and they would be absolutely shocked.

[Ourusualbeach]

Again....where did I say I hated anything? It is an observation and a topic for cruise critic. The trend is moving towards the initial fare gets you onboard...period. A couple more observations....Look at NCL, they now even charge for the private island buffet for those disembarking at their new Belize island. Look at Carnival, now you are asked when you want your room cleaned. Take an avid cruiser from 20 years ago and time warp then to a ship today and they would be absolutely shocked.

 

Or take a cruiser that’s only cruised in the last 5 years and stick them on a ship from 20 years ago where there was no choices or options and they would be equally shocked.

[ThirstyCruiser]

Keeping firing in those reviews with all 10s. "Everything was perfect, nothing could possibly have been better."

 

What's a corporation (or any person with 0.1 ounces of business sense) supposed to think?

Well, if we cut costs by 12%, lets see if the scores fall by 12% or more.

 

Nope! Look at all these 10s, still! Our average score dropped a little, but much less than a 12% drop. Clearly we have been failing our bottom line by over spending. Let's reduce costs a little more and keep an eye on the "voice of the customer". 10, 10, 10, 10, 10......

[ThirstyCruiser]

Again....where did I say I hated anything?

You don't hate the "dog food" at Sabor?

Other than that statement (you have never gone hungry apparently, don't say things like that), I agree with the rest of your points.

 

The industry is moving towards a low base fare to be able to be a few bucks less than the next guy in internet searches. Then layer on all the add ons - port fees, taxes, grats (daily service charge), this restaurant, that drink package, an excursion here. Fast forward to 2025. Oh, you wanna use the elevator? We offer The Ultimate Extreme Premium Elevator package. For the low price of $12.99 a day enjoy priority access to express elevators between floors.

 

Its like Putty told Jerry when he complained about being upcharged for keys for his new Sabb - "How you gonna start it otherwise?"

[RocketMan275]

When the threads about the "declining quality of food in the MDR" started, there was always someone who would ask, "How much more would you pay in cruise fare to bring back better food in the MDR?" or "I would certainly pay more to know that I would be getting better food in the MDR".

 

Well, Royal Caribbean listened to that.

 

They now offer the Ultimate Dining Package, which is exactly that. You eat in specialty restaurants every night, plus lunches on sea days. There is one flat price for the cruise. Voila! Instant add-on to the cruise fare and you get upgraded food every night and several middays.

 

And it's way less than $70 a day. (I just checked. It's $24 a day, without figuring in lunches.)

 

It seems to be popular.

 

:)

 

Thank you. I should have used the UDP price. Forgot about that. Still, $24 is Per Person. Times two $48. I used $35 Per Person which was just a guess since specialty dining prices vary. Of course, where you dine with the UDP is decided by the cruise line which allows them some ability to reduce costs (chops versus sabor).

 

The point remains, if the cruise line were to upgrade the MDR to specialty restaurant standards, there would be a significant increase in costs. Nothing is free. We're not going to see specialty dining standards in the MDR at today's costs.

[Ourusualbeach]

Thank you. I should have used the UDP price. Forgot about that. Still, $24 is Per Person. Times two $48. I used $35 Per Person which was just a guess since specialty dining prices vary. Of course, where you dine with the UDP is decided by the cruise line which allows them some ability to reduce costs (chops versus sabor).

 

The point remains, if the cruise line were to upgrade the MDR to specialty restaurant standards, there would be a significant increase in costs. Nothing is free. We're not going to see specialty dining standards in the MDR at today's costs.

The only exclusions to the UDP are the Chefs table, dinners with wine pairings, mystery dinner theatre and Hibachi (though there have been reports of this being allowed if they are not busy).

[RocketMan275]

Again....where did I say I hated anything? It is an observation and a topic for cruise critic. The trend is moving towards the initial fare gets you onboard...period. A couple more observations....Look at NCL, they now even charge for the private island buffet for those disembarking at their new Belize island. Look at Carnival, now you are asked when you want your room cleaned. Take an avid cruiser from 20 years ago and time warp them to a ship today and they would be absolutely shocked.

 

The problem isn't the cruise line. They are only responding to their passenger's preferences. The vast majority of cruises select their cruise on cost. (You doubt that? Your own post proves that.) When the cruise lines are competing on cost and cost alone, the cruise lines have no choice but to reduce costs. As others up thread have noted, you can increase your dining pleasure to the standards of old by purchasing an Ultimate Dining Package for only $24 PP PD. Or, there are other cruise lines that cater to a non-mainstream clientele.

 

The bottom line is this: changes in the MDR are not part of some nefarious plot to do away with the MDR. It is a response to passengers demanding lower costs.

[seadancer]

I’ve been sailing since 1987. The food in the MDR was delicious back then and elegant compared to now. The service was fantastic. The servers were attentive, friendly and courteous. I feel the real reason for this is that in those years, the ships weren’t as big as they are now and they didn’t carry as many people as they do now. You did have choices too. The buffet and room service were available and the food was fresh too. Back then I think they only had 1 steakhouse and that was more personalized service and decadent food. All companies are always going to try to cut costs and when they started creating the mega ships, they also tried to see how else they could get more money. Whether that was through liquor, upscale restaurant or adding things to the ships to attract more people. All companies want to see more profit.

 

This is the main reason we changed from Carnival to Royal and Celebrity. Celebrity has their ships in the same size as how they used to be in the 90’s and their customer service is amazing.

 

We have never been on a mega ship and decided to try it this summer.

 

Just my opinion...

[rolloman]

You don't hate the "dog food" at Sabor?

Other than that statement (you have never gone hungry apparently, don't say things like that), I agree with the rest of your points.

 

The industry is moving towards a low base fare to be able to be a few bucks less than the next guy in internet searches. Then layer on all the add ons - port fees, taxes, grats (daily service charge), this restaurant, that drink package, an excursion here. Fast forward to 2025. Oh, you wanna use the elevator? We offer The Ultimate Extreme Premium Elevator package. For the low price of $12.99 a day enjoy priority access to express elevators between floors.

 

Its like Putty told Jerry when he complained about being upcharged for keys for his new Sabb - "How you gonna start it otherwise?"

 

Your initial assumption is completely wrong but back on topic, I agree with the internet search and was thinking the same thing today. Soon it may very well be elevators for a fee lol..... Maybe MSC, Cunard etc. have hit upon the future, we may very well go full circle and come back to a tier based / cruise within a cruise experience. Pay more up front for the luxury to avoid the nickel and dime. As I have said, the trend is quickly moving towards a boarding pass simply gets you on the ship.

[starrcards]

Totally agree. Not a pleasure to be crammed into MDR and served food barely fit to eat. I am willing and able to pay for a "Dining Experience." I am aware that not all who cruise are able to pay for Specialty restaurants. I do however agree the pricing is getting out of control.

 

"Food barely fit to eat?" I guess I need to get out more or go to the classy restaurants you do. We have been on 4 RCCL cruises since 2013 (and a fifth in 2 weeks), a hardly find MDR food swill. We have done specialty restaurants on previous cruises (FNDR, BOGO, multiple night plans) and, while the ambiance is better, I'm not sure the food can be classified as super. MDR (quality and choice) is fine with us.

[rolloman]

I for one would rather pay for a cheaper cruise in general and then be able to splurge on a specialty restaurant if I want to. I also like the option of being able to get a table for two or a table for 10 depending on if I am feeling social or not. I also like being able to decide when I want to eat with anytime dining. Many others feel the same way I do and would rather cruise this way instead of being forced to eat at the same time each night with the same people with better main dining room food without an up charge.

 

 

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I hear you and I agree with what you are saying...however, my point is the fast food type upcharges now being assessed are over the top. Basically ten dollars additional for a burger and shake? Mark this post and come back 5 years from now...... with the current trend, your boarding pass will get you just that.....boarding.....

Very easy for someone on a shoestring budget to book a cruise these days, unfortunately when they can't pay their sign and sail charges at the end of the cruise the first thing they delete is the crew tips. This maneuver does not effect the corporate budget but it certainly adversely effects the crew and an unhappy crew equates to unpleasant future cruise bookings. IMO I see the cruise within a cruise becoming mainstream sooner rather than later. Something will have to give...........