Look Out....The Industry is going to have many more options

[RDC1]

My TA tried MSC and was not that impressed. However they are somewhat new and may be "learning" and working on their quality. Richard Branson is usually golden no matter what he does. We'll see if this new venture is the same. I hear nothing bUT compliments on Viking, but usually folks who have taken river cruises. If their quality holds into ocean cruising, they are a tough competitor. However, I am sure it comes at a high cost point.

So I am a HAL person for now and soon to try Celebrity. Anxious to see how it compares.

 

Of course the information on Virgin cruises is that it is aimed at a much younger demographic, 18+, no kids on 2600 passenger ships. As they put it younger, a little more hip, a little more cool. Think of it as the same market as the affluent, adults only all inclusive resort market.

[KroozNut]

Like a lot, MOM! :D

 

You're bringing your mom into this thread, why pray tell? :confused:

[1ANGELCAT]

You're bringing your mom into this thread, why pray tell? :confused:

 

 

 

He was referring to the screen name:Old As Dirt Mom

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[KroozNut]

So we did the "what other cruise lines have you sailed" conversation.

 

One's first and last mistake on any cruise discussion. One that we haven't visited since our first sailing in 1998.

[KroozNut]

He was referring to the screen name:Old As Dirt Mom

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

Okay, I obviously missed the 'Old As Dirt' part.. :o

[OlsSalt]

Some cost comparisons from a cruise search website: 14 day Northern European Baltic cruise for a "suite" (caution since HAL calls a verandah a suite - not a head to head for a Neptune suite vs Viking:

 

All suites: 14 day

Viking: $9,119

 

"Suites": 14 day

Rotterdam: $2,599

Konigsdam: $3,299

Zuiderdam:$ 2,999

Prinsendam: $6,799

Prinsendam - 28 day: $11,999

 

Oranges to tangerines here; but the days and destinations are a similar comparison. After Crystal we made our own decision, we travel twice as much or twice as long to very interesting destinations in enjoyable comfort with HAL

 

One other feature I noticed in this search that is either good or bad, Viking does not do "same port" cruises - you need to schedule flights to and from two different cities, but also get to enjoy being in two different cities at the beginning and end of your cruise.

[Reagan0712]

Thanks for the summary. Viking Ocean Cruises does sound interesting and an alternative to HAL.

A friend of mine did a 14 day Viking Cruise last summer. While the initial price is higher, this price includes almost all excursions. She said the pricing ended up comparable to booking a cruise and paying for excursion.

[3rdGenCunarder]

A friend of mine did a 14 day Viking Cruise last summer. While the initial price is higher, this price includes almost all excursions. She said the pricing ended up comparable to booking a cruise and paying for excursion.

 

Was that an ocean cruise? It's pretty standard for river cruises to include many excursions, but I didn't know if Viking extended that practice to their ocean cruises.

[Cruise Junky]

Was that an ocean cruise? It's pretty standard for river cruises to include many excursions, but I didn't know if Viking extended that practice to their ocean cruises.

 

Yes, they include excursions.

 

• One complimentary shore excursion in every port of call
  
• Unlimited free Wi-Fi
  
• Alternative restaurant dining at no extra charge
  
• 24-hour room service
  
• Beer, wine & soft drinks with onboard lunch & dinner
  
• 24-hour specialty coffees, teas & bottled water
  
• Access to top-rated spa & state-of-the-art fitness center
  
• Self-service launderettes
  
• Port taxes & fees
  

[OlsSalt]

Fine, Hank. I've enjoyed both reading your posts and traveling with you in person. But I have considered your post and disagree with you. I apologize for my tone.

 

Why don't you "walk the talk"? You and all the sophisticates should go ahead and enjoy all the yummy new choices in the cruise line smorgasbord. Be sure to visit us periodically to hector and lecture us about how degraded HAL has become, and how your choices are so much smarter, better, and superior. I'm sure HAL management hasn't got a clue, according to you, so why should they even bother with putting out new ships like Koenigsdam and Nieuw Statendam?

 

You have stated here that Prinsendam is one of your favorite vessels. But isn't that one of "those older ships, with very few balconies and lots of maintenance issues"?

 

All those options you mention in your post come with one, big caveat. They cost more than the average HAL cruise. You'll be back on HAL, Princess, and Celebrity, because the bottom line for you, and so many, is cost (understandably so). You, and so many like you, complain constantly about HAL, but you don't go away.

 

So options are good. I agree with you there. But why can't you just mention the new options without denigrating HAL? HAL has a niche market. If it's not yours, YOU go ahead and put your money where your mouth is.

 

You said what needed to be said. I finally put the OP on ignore, but you reflected my own thoughts from prior interactions with the OP.

[navybankerteacher]

Competition from new cruise lines can only be good for the cruising public.

 

MSC always seemed weird, they have people embarking and debarking in every port on a seven day cruise. Not saying there is anything wrong with that, it's just different. I am looking forward to your MSC review, Hank.

 

From what I've heard, MSC has assigned dining in the MDR as well as a fairly well defined dress code: real formal nights with tuxedos or dark suits expected on men, and no jeans, ever: both anathema to many on these boards. I would be interested in hearing whether this is so.

[OlsSalt]

"Competition" in the cruise industry is subject to the law of diminishing returns. They all offer same the basic - room, board, transportation. "Competing" at similar price points could become a circular firing squad. Far better to corner a unique and sustainable demographic than "compete" for the mass market by adding the most trendy gee-gaws driven by the lowest common denominator in competition for the cruise dollar. Not sure HAL has the best leadership team driving these decisions at this time.

 

HAL, Stick with your excellent crews who continue to create a warm and welcoming total onboard experience, your unique itineraries, your traditional design, your sedate atmosphere, and let the other compete for those who don't find that sufficient value for their cruise dollar. Lots of us still do.

 

Carve out your own path HAL. We hear story after story from people who thought they would not like HAL, and find they are in a place in their lives now where they really, really do. So don't worry about the chronic malcontents. Let some other line take them on and consider yourself lucky to get off this squirrel wheel called cruise line "competition".

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

Thanks for the info.

[Sue from Canada]

I attended the annual NY Times Travel Show in NYC this year to attend some of the lectures and see if there was anything new and exciting in travel. MSC had a large presence at the show. HAL, not at all. We spoke to the MSC rep. We're a couple in our mid 60's and we told him we liked the service and accommodations on HAL but felt it was falling down in programming and entertainment. He thought we would be be very happy in the Yacht Club as the rest of the ship was more family oriented.

 

One thing to note. If you're American (not sure about Canadian) and sail the Caribbean from Miami, your cruise fare is paid in U.S. dollars. If you're on a European itinerary, the fare is paid in Euro. As of now, that could be a deal breaker.

 

When I book with HAL the prices are in CDN funds. I also use a company in New Jersey and again pay in CDN funds. All four sailings in Europe I've paid in CDN funds. Let's hope our CDN dollar goes up.

[Sue from Canada]

Thought this might be an appropriate topic for the long time HAL cruises (including me) that have been looking for other options. We are among those that think the several of the major mass market lines (i.e. HAL, Celebrity) have lost their way and have not been able to clearly define their future niche. Meanwhile, some other companies seem to have a very clear vision of the future and they are putting the big money on the line. Consider MSC, which is a huge privately owned shipping company that has recently jumped into the major modern cruise market. Within the next 5 or so years...MSC will have 16 large (relatively new) cruise ships. They (along with NCL) are really pushing the "ship within a ship" concept with their so-called "Yacht Club" which is luxury (and great service) on a normal type ship. The Yacht Club are cabins and suites usually located in a private section of the larger ships and not accessible to those not booked into the yacht club. These folks have their own dining room, their own pool, lounges, staff, etc. But they also can partake of what's available on the large ship such as lots of entertainment, activities, etc. In a sense its the best of both worlds. But now, MSC has just announced that they intend to order 4 new small ship builds (600-800 passenger) which will likely be targeted at the those who want smaller more luxury-type vessels (you hear this HAL?).

 

And we should also mention Richard Branson (of the Virgin empire) who is soon to enter the US cruise market with 3 new ships. These will be about 2600 passenger and at least the first one will be age 18+ only. 86% of the cabins will have balconies (you hear this HAL?). The history of Mr. Branson is that most everything he does is high quality and successful.

 

And then we have Viking Ocean cruises....which some might say is what HAL should be. Nice new ships, decent cabins, and a ship primarily dedicated to grown ups who want to cruise and tour. Folks should not scoff at Viking as this company has a terrific management team. They have managed to grow from a small River Boat company to one of the largest river boat companies....and now is quickly making its mark in the cruise line world with 6 new ships....with about 900 passengers on each (a size popular with many long-time HAL fans).

 

So look out HAL. The cruise industry may soon be leaving you in its wake. While HAL still operates many older type ships (with relatively few balconies and lots of maintenance issues)...other companies are forging ahead with some very competitive products.

 

Hank

 

Hank, I appreciate you writing and I do agree with you in quite a few areas. However, you do come across as a bit "class snobbish." Are you or aren't you? If you have lots of money to spend on any cruise line and cabin class good for you. However, some people are not as lucky and they appreciate just being able to go on a decent cruise even if they don't have a balcony or eat breakfast in the Pinnacle Grill. Please mingle will all on board and you'll find you can learn a world of information. Maybe you'll even make a friend to enjoy cruising with.

Edited March 12, 2018 by Sue from Canada

[Reagan0712]

Was that an ocean cruise? It's pretty standard for river cruises to include many excursions, but I didn't know if Viking extended that practice to their ocean cruises.

Now that I think about it, I believe it was a river cruise, but Cruise Junky (thanks) has provided addl info.

Edited March 12, 2018 by Reagan0712
spelling

[OlsSalt]

A friend of mine did a 14 day Viking Cruise last summer. While the initial price is higher, this price includes almost all excursions. She said the pricing ended up comparable to booking a cruise and paying for excursion.

 

That would be interesting to price out since there seems to be a $6,000 price difference between the two lines for a similar itinerary for a 14 day cruise. Does anyone ever spend $6,000 on normal shore excursions on 14 day HAL cruises?. Besides the big overnight ones like going to the Taj Mahal or Machu Picchu.

[bennybear]

I appreciate the information and discussion. I have always enjoyed reading Hank’s perspective and this is Cruise Critic. We don’t have to always agree but I think we all benefit from sharing our points of view and learning from each other.

 

Balance is key. There are always pros and cons with everything and that applies to cruise lines.

 

Personally, we have sailed several lines and like HAL a lot, but at times some really bad maintenance has impacted our cruise immensely and made us question future bookings. Thankfully our last cruise restored our faith in HAL.

 

So I for one want to hear both the yays and the nays. Then I can make my own mind up.

[OlsSalt]

I appreciate the information and discussion. I have always enjoyed reading Hank’s perspective and this is Cruise Critic. We don’t have to always agree but I think we all benefit from sharing our points of view and learning from each other.

 

Balance is key. There are always pros and cons with everything and that applies to cruise lines.

 

Personally, we have sailed several lines and like HAL a lot, but at times some really bad maintenance has impacted our cruise immensely and made us question future bookings. Thankfully our last cruise restored our faith in HAL.

 

So I for one want to hear both the yays and the nays. Then I can make my own mind up.

 

Please share with us how you know you experienced "really bad maintenance". Can't get the OP to share his own private list of HAL's deferred maintenance items, so maybe you can help provide more professional insights. Wish chengkp56 would come along and help us with this ongoing discussion item too so it can be more than just chatting among laypersons.

[cruisemom42]

I appreciate the information and discussion. I have always enjoyed reading Hank’s perspective and this is Cruise Critic. We don’t have to always agree but I think we all benefit from sharing our points of view and learning from each other.

 

Balance is key. There are always pros and cons with everything and that applies to cruise lines.

 

Personally, we have sailed several lines and like HAL a lot, but at times some really bad maintenance has impacted our cruise immensely and made us question future bookings. Thankfully our last cruise restored our faith in HAL.

 

So I for one want to hear both the yays and the nays. Then I can make my own mind up.

 

Thank you -- well stated.

 

Sometimes it seems the welcome mat is only out on this board for those who are willing to blindly agree that whatever HAL does is wonderful.

[bennybear]

Please share with us how you know you experienced "really bad maintenance". Can't get the OP to share his own private list of HAL's deferred maintenance items, so maybe you can help provide more professional insights. Wish chengkp56 would come along and help us with this ongoing discussion item too so it can be more than just chatting among laypersons.

 

My personal experience this past year on Noordam was a toilet that wouldn’t flush for three days and required multiple plumbing calls. Our deck chair with badly frayed webbing that desperately needed replacement and rust of several inches square In the bathroom of our signature suite. These items need to be addressed in any stateroom and are simply unacceptable in a Signature Suite.

 

Also on the Zuiderdam after a really nice refurbishment, we found deck chair pads that were absolutely filthy and badly stained. And often no towels available to at least make them usable.

 

So I am No professional but to me these are simply unacceptable.

[OlsSalt]

My personal experience this past year on Noordam was a toilet that wouldn’t flush for three days and required multiple plumbing calls. Our deck chair with badly frayed webbing that desperately needed replacement and rust of several inches square In the bathroom of our signature suite. These items need to be addressed in any stateroom and are simply unacceptable in a Signature Suite.

 

Also on the Zuiderdam after a really nice refurbishment, we found deck chair pads that were absolutely filthy and badly stained. And often no towels available to at least make them usable.

 

So I am No professional but to me these are simply unacceptable.

 

Thank you for offering specifics. Much more helpful than any prior very global statement about " really bad neglected maintenance". Others can now judge from their own acceptance levels regarding the details of your experience. I hate to keep raising this same topic. but "non-working toilets" do need some input from our resident chief engineer for a better understanding of what that statement can actually mean, anything from occasional delayed flush to overflowing and had to use outside facilities for days on end.

[Aquahound]

Please share with us how you know you experienced "really bad maintenance".

 

Sure. How about water leaking into my room and running down the inside wall on Oosterdam, not to mention the rusted metal flakes that had to be swept from the carpet every morning.

 

[iancal]

Price is only one part of the equation and in some instances it may not to be a reasonable basis of comparison.

 

We look at price, but usually VALUE, as we perceive it, trumps price. Recently paid an uplift to get a deluxe room in a five star hotel.. Why? We perceived value. There was value to us in upgrading the room. There was more value in buying this five star room even though it was more expensive that the four starts were considering. The value to us exceeded the price delta.

[OlsSalt]

Sure. How about water leaking into my room and running down the inside wall on Oosterdam, not to mention the rusted metal flakes that had to be swept from the carpet every morning.

 

 

Did you request the ship be taken out of commission or demand compensation or a cabin change to make up for this unfortunate "in-cabin" situation? Thank you again for illustrating the specific offense: Do you know where the ship was it in its dry dock schedule?