WWYD Babies in Haven Pool/Hot tub

[Rileyz]

UPDATE:

While I have no official confirmation on resolution, I have not seen them in the haven pool the last two days but did see the family getting off the elevator wet and with pool towels. I believe they were at the main pool deck but do not know which pools or areas they used. Cruise has been beautiful, great staff, food has been so so. Will update again when cruise has ended. Thanks again to all who offered advice. Rileyz

[NLH Arizona]

UPDATE:

While I have no official confirmation on resolution, I have not seen them in the haven pool the last two days but did see the family getting off the elevator wet and with pool towels. I believe they were at the main pool deck but do not know which pools or areas they used. Cruise has been beautiful, great staff, food has been so so. Will update again when cruise has ended. Thanks again to all who offered advice. Rileyz

Great, thanks for the update.

[esm54687]

UPDATE:

While I have no official confirmation on resolution, I have not seen them in the haven pool the last two days but did see the family getting off the elevator wet and with pool towels. I believe they were at the main pool deck but do not know which pools or areas they used. Cruise has been beautiful, great staff, food has been so so. Will update again when cruise has ended. Thanks again to all who offered advice. Rileyz

Well, at least the Haven occupants are saved from cholera, amoebiasis, shigelossis, etc.... hopefully you reported seeing them wet and with pool towels to the HD to protect the main pool users..... knowing that the children are not potty trained and using a pool..... and then not reporting them is equally wrong on your part. Just my opinion that you have a responsibility since you chose to engage when it impacted you directly and relocation is not a solution.

[davesgirl51]

Probably is a guest that won the haven through the bid process. Folks that really pay the full fare don't have to say how money they paid.

 

Bingo.

[ceilidh1]

Just to play Devil's Advocate, I wonder if anyone has explained to the parent WHY kids in swim diapers are not allowed in the pools. I have to admit, when I cruised with my kids as toddlers 12 years ago, I was baffled by the rule (though I NEVER broke it - any excuse to keep me out of the water...lol). I couldn't figure out why swim diapers were fine in land based pools but not on a ship, but when it was explained to me I totally got it! In my mind, the "no diaper" rule was tantamount to telling parents to have their non potty-trained kids swim diaperless! A far better rule would be "no kids under 3 / no kids that are not potty trained/ no diapers".

 

 

Thankfully, both my kids are well past that stage.....

[Rileyz]

UPDATE 2: Spoke too soon. They are in haven pool again.

[Computer Nerd]

Just to play Devil's Advocate, I wonder if anyone has explained to the parent WHY kids in swim diapers are not allowed in the pools. I have to admit, when I cruised with my kids as toddlers 12 years ago, I was baffled by the rule (though I NEVER broke it - any excuse to keep me out of the water...lol). I couldn't figure out why swim diapers were fine in land based pools but not on a ship, but when it was explained to me I totally got it! In my mind, the "no diaper" rule was tantamount to telling parents to have their non potty-trained kids swim diaperless! A far better rule would be "no kids under 3 / no kids that are not potty trained/ no diapers".

 

 

Thankfully, both my kids are well past that stage.....

 

If one is old enough to have a kid you would think one would be old enough to have some common sense. If the parents need to have this "explained" to them then they shouldn't be parents. Of course, one doesn't even need to understand why a rule is in place, they just simply need to follow it.

[Computer Nerd]

UPDATE 2: Spoke too soon. They are in haven pool again.

 

Keep calling security until they are removed.

[NLH Arizona]

UPDATE 2: Spoke too soon. They are in haven pool again.

(1) Take a picture, (2) get an appointment with the hotel director and (3) email the picture to the CDC (on a previous post there was a email address) and copy fdelrio@ncl.com and astuart@ncl.com.

[mking8288]

Unbelievable, the children aren't responsible but the parent(s) are - forget about DYKWIA and how much or little "they" paid. I cannot imagine the pool(s) and tub(s) remaining in service and other guests unknowingly step in and risk exposure ... and, today is a full day at sea, schedule for tomorrow is Victoria, B.C.

 

Am I correct to think ?? that a complaint has been filed and nothing has been done and conditions corrected, or, even acknowledged at the higher level on the ship's chain of command. This is NOT acceptable, IMO. I hate to even think about and suggest evil measures to call in for an immediate hazmat response, and, shut it down for everyone.

 

Meanwhile, there are hundreds of onboard CCTV surveillance cameras rolling for security reasons, and, I am pretty sure there are video clips taken in that general & public area ... even if other passengers sharing the space & annoyed/troubled by this didn't take any photos.

 

Maybe, Canadian public health authorities should have a conversation with ship's onboard management while docked ... even if this is not within their jurisdiction & routines. What, but, if there is a Norovirus or other disease outbreak as a result of this.

[ceilidh1]

If one is old enough to have a kid you would think one would be old enough to have some common sense.

 

 

That's my point, to many it isn't "common sense". A pool is a pool and if you don't understand or are aware of the mechanics of how ship pools works then the "no diaper" rule doesn't make sense. A better rule would be no children under a certain age or no non-potty trained children. Otherwise, you are opening yourself up to exactly what has happened - right now, this parent isn't "technically" breaking rules as the kids are not wearing diapers in the pool!

 

If the parents need to have this "explained" to them then they shouldn't be parents.

 

 

If the reason were explained it "might" help the parent understand why the rule is in place and they "might" be more likely to abide by the rule. (I don't know these people so have no clue what kind of parents they are)

 

Of course, one doesn't even need to understand why a rule is in place, they just simply need to follow it

 

I agree 100% with this! It shouldn't matter why the rule is in place, it should be followed. But, as I said earlier, the parent IS following the rule now - by putting kids in the pool without diapers. Really, the rule has nothing to do with diapers, but everything to do with kids who are not toilet trained!

By the way, I am not defending this parents actions in any way and feel as strongly about this as everyone on this discussion. I am just pointing out that there is more that all cruise lines could do to make those rules more explicit and enforceable .

 

Red wording is mine

[chengkp75]

There is really no difference in the "mechanics" between a ship's pool and a land based public pool. What is different is the requirements that the pool has to operate under. The CDC has studied land pools and found that the majority of them would fail a USPH/CDC inspection, and most of those would require an immediate shut down. Swim diaper facilities on land were even worse, about 80% of them would have failed.

[phissy]

UPDATE 2: Spoke too soon. They are in haven pool again.

We feel your frustration. When we were in The Haven, small noisy kids were not what we considered "Haven". They would eat at tables and get up and run around screaming and throwing their food. Most of us were just trying to read and relax.

Jenzer and Bruno can only do so much. Jenzer is the least likely to say something but, he does pass on information to Bruno. Bruno is so nice and I am sure he did convey the information. Perhaps a follow up to remind family . I would try to talk with Steven , the Hotel Director, or leave a comment in his box at customer service area. He is really good at getting back to guests, and he did come to Haven and chat with us over another issue we had.

[Peachypooh]

I agree that children who aren't potty trained are a health hazard to others. I would like to add that adults who use the pools/hot tubs are a health hazard too sometimes. I was just about to get in the hot tub and I saw an elderly gentleman with a gauze bandage around his hand and underneath it looked like stitches!And yes he put it under water. This is not a solution for everyone I know but for me the pools and hot tubs hold no appeal anymore. And don't get me started on what is floating on top of the water in some of the pools. A shame people can't be more sanitation conscious.

[ceilidh1]

There is really no difference in the "mechanics" between a ship's pool and a land based public pool. What is different is the requirements that the pool has to operate under. The CDC has studied land pools and found that the majority of them would fail a USPH/CDC inspection, and most of those would require an immediate shut down. Swim diaper facilities on land were even worse, about 80% of them would have failed.

 

Seriously? Wow! So why is this allowed in land based pools? Do they just not have any regulations? I really am fascinated by the topic - it has always made me grossed out to be in the water with kids in diapers, but I always tried not to think about it or tried to take comfort in the fact that the water was being treated to a point that there was no risk to me. Now I'm even more grossed out!

[rose102798]

While this is an obvious in your face gross issue...... I am curious if everyone advising to take pictures and contacting HD, Corporate NCL, CDC, USPHS, NASA, etc..... do the same when they witness 10 adults who spend 5 hours in the main hot tub taking full advantage of the UBP yet never seem to leave to go to the rest room..... they either have a bladder the size of a 100 gallon drum or they don't..... not looking to be attacked but just making an observation

 

 

 

Hahahaha. Exactly. That’s why just the thought of going to a swim up bar grosses me out. Won’t do it!

 

 

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[chengkp75]

Seriously? Wow! So why is this allowed in land based pools? Do they just not have any regulations? I really am fascinated by the topic - it has always made me grossed out to be in the water with kids in diapers, but I always tried not to think about it or tried to take comfort in the fact that the water was being treated to a point that there was no risk to me. Now I'm even more grossed out!

 

Seriously. The CDC issues a "poop in the pool" report every year, the last one just last month. Google "CDC studies of public pools". The problem is that land pools are regulated by state and local health codes, which are not as stringent as the USPH/CDC requirements for cruise ships.

 

To be a USPH/CDC compliant water facility for kids in swim diapers, the facility must be designed with a separate water supply from any other water facility on the ship, it must not have more than 2" of standing water (this is a recent change, it used to be zero standing water), it must have a "turn-over" rate (the number of times the water is filtered every hour) higher than other water facilities, it must have an emergency shut down with automatic draining should a fecal accident occur, it must have an Ultraviolet sterilizer that all of the water must pass through in addition to filtration and chlorination, there must be measures to keep water from the swim diaper facility from mixing with another water facility (typically glass walls), and there must be no way that a person can move from a swim diaper facility directly into a non-swim diaper facility (typically those same glass walls). That's just the construction. For operation, there must be the signage regarding the regulations for swim diapers, there must be a crew member assigned to watch the facility only at all times the facility is open, there must be a changing station in close proximity, and the cruise line must provide a supply of swim diapers.

[welove2cruise2014]

Seriously. The CDC issues a "poop in the pool" report every year, the last one just last month. Google "CDC studies of public pools". The problem is that land pools are regulated by state and local health codes, which are not as stringent as the USPH/CDC requirements for cruise ships.

 

To be a USPH/CDC compliant water facility for kids in swim diapers, the facility must be designed with a separate water supply from any other water facility on the ship, it must not have more than 2" of standing water (this is a recent change, it used to be zero standing water), it must have a "turn-over" rate (the number of times the water is filtered every hour) higher than other water facilities, it must have an emergency shut down with automatic draining should a fecal accident occur, it must have an Ultraviolet sterilizer that all of the water must pass through in addition to filtration and chlorination, there must be measures to keep water from the swim diaper facility from mixing with another water facility (typically glass walls), and there must be no way that a person can move from a swim diaper facility directly into a non-swim diaper facility (typically those same glass walls). That's just the construction. For operation, there must be the signage regarding the regulations for swim diapers, there must be a crew member assigned to watch the facility only at all times the facility is open, there must be a changing station in close proximity, and the cruise line must provide a supply of swim diapers.

I think the weirdest point of all of this is that the line would have to have a supply of swim diapers available.

[chengkp75]

While the thought of adults peeing in the pool is gross, this problem is taken care of by the chlorination levels in the pool, which are continually and automatically monitored, and chlorine dosed automatically as required by the bather load at that time.

 

The big danger with kids in swim diapers is things like Giardia or Cryptosporidium cysts, which are present in fecal matter, and can survive for days in a properly chlorinated pool. The only thing (other than boiling) that kills or removes these cysts is filtration, which is why swim diaper water facilities have to have a higher turn-over rate and an automatic shutdown if there is any problem with the filtration equipment or the UV sterilizer.

[OceanBlueWaters]

Forgive my ignorance, since I am a new comer to NCL. I would have assumed that procedures would have already been in place for this scenario. My bad! Why is this getting the "red flag" and attention? Because it is in the Haven? What about the steerage pool?

I would NEVER go in any pool/hot tub on board a ship or public pool for that matter (my choice). I would not even book a "Spa Package" for those incredibly high prices to be subjected to bacteria (Disclaimer: It is my choice and I have no data to support my claims in foreseen replies. Simply my choice).

Due to the above, my question is: If NCL can't follow simple protocol on keeping a common swimming area clean, how is my food? Just wondering...

Sorry if I hijacked this...

[chengkp75]

Forgive my ignorance, since I am a new comer to NCL. I would have assumed that procedures would have already been in place for this scenario. My bad! Why is this getting the "red flag" and attention? Because it is in the Haven? What about the steerage pool?

I would NEVER go in any pool/hot tub on board a ship or public pool for that matter (my choice). I would not even book a "Spa Package" for those incredibly high prices to be subjected to bacteria (Disclaimer: It is my choice and I have no data to support my claims in foreseen replies. Simply my choice).

Due to the above, my question is: If NCL can't follow simple protocol on keeping a common swimming area clean, how is my food? Just wondering...

Sorry if I hijacked this...

 

A valid question, but two different scenarios. Poor pool hygiene and poor food safety will each result in failed inspections by the USPH, with consequent bad PR, and even the possibility of stopping the ship until measures are taken, or even banning the ship from embarking passengers in the US. However, food safety is drilled into the crew to the point where it is almost second nature, and they do it without conscious thought. This happens "back of house", so any "inconvenience" to the passenger from following the sanitation requirements are not seen or affect the passenger's experience. The pool hygiene problem, and trust me this is not limited to NCL, but nearly all lines have this issue, is one where the crew must confront the passenger directly and affect their vacation experience in a negative way, and the crew are trained to avoid these confrontations (and many rely on passenger good will for the DSC which makes up the bulk of their paycheck), and so many will turn a blind eye to this. This problem is similar to the proliferation of fake "service" animals brought onboard, and no one wants to confront the passenger.

 

The pool hygiene issue will not get better until other passengers report this behavior to crew present at the pool, and to guest services, and then escalate the issue to the HD and Staff Captain using knowledgeable terms like "violation of USPH VSP".

[BNBR]

And this is why NCL Haven is a freakin joke. Sounds exactly like our experience, except about 15 kids. Who would pay for the Haven on NCL after knowing what a disaster it is?

[OceanBlueWaters]

Thank you! I hope everyone using the pools/hot tubs heeds your advice...

 

:)

[Rileyz]

They have drained pool and hot tub. Cleaning both now. They really need to communicate and enforce these rules better. This is all needless and should have been taken care of days ago. Now instead of one cabin being upset ( the rule breakers) they have many. At least they hopefully won’t get sick now. I did tell hd I hope this is enforced at all pools.

[Heartfelttraveler]

Seriously? Wow! So why is this allowed in land based pools? Do they just not have any regulations? I really am fascinated by the topic - it has always made me grossed out to be in the water with kids in diapers, but I always tried not to think about it or tried to take comfort in the fact that the water was being treated to a point that there was no risk to me. Now I'm even more grossed out!

 

 

 

We stayed a week at the Ritz Carlton Grand Cayman. The pool was closed three full days: Two 24 hour periods because a kid pooped in the pool (two separate times). The third time was because an older child stood at the edge of the pool and peed. No compensation to the other hotel guests. They did have ample swim diapers for free at the pool that were not used. Yuck.

 

 

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