Future of Oceania

[JPR]

O ships, yes. R ahips, i don’t know. Trying Sirena in October and will post then.

[vaitape]

"Being Canadian, we have had to reduce our travel budget as our Cdn $ is so much less than the US$. We now travel alot less than before because it is simply too expensive - paying 35% more than God Bless America guests does not sit well with us - even using a US TA."

Not understanding your statement here. If we booked with an overseas owned cruise ship company and our US$$ was less against the GBP, Euro, or Aussie $$, we should have a cost adjustment??

 

We recently purchased air tickets from LHR-DUB-LHR and had to pay the airfare in GBP which is more than if we purchased our tickets DUB-LHR-DUB if we were allowed to purchase tickets

in Euros. It is what is...

I'm not the wisest person with foreign transactions but to blame God Bless America TA's or Oceania, an American based cruise line, doesn't sit well with us.

 

Edited July 10, 2018 by vaitape
typos

[Wol]

I'm not the wisest person with foreign transactions but to blame God Bless America TA's or Oceania, an American based cruise line, doesn't sit well with us.

 

He's not making any kind of point except saying that, as in other countries, the strong US$ has made all American cruises - and exports - expensive.

 

There are other things that Americans get which others don't. Rarely is air offered, and the concept of travel agents sharing some of their commission with clients as an incentive is largely unknown. In fact here in Australia some agents charge $50 plus tax just to talk to you whether you sign up or not. And if one books on board the first an agent knows about it is when they are told they are getting several thousand dollars from Oceania for a booking they had nothing to do with! Yet they won't even consider sharing that with the customer. Result, we book direct with the line - I would rather Oceania kept the cash than a non-involved third party.

[Paulchili]

He's not making any kind of point except saying that, as in other countries, the strong US$ has made all American cruises - and exports - expensive.

 

There are other things that Americans get which others don't. Rarely is air offered, and the concept of travel agents sharing some of their commission with clients as an incentive is largely unknown. In fact here in Australia some agents charge $50 plus tax just to talk to you whether you sign up or not. And if one books on board the first an agent knows about it is when they are told they are getting several thousand dollars from Oceania for a booking they had nothing to do with! Yet they won't even consider sharing that with the customer. Result, we book direct with the line - I would rather Oceania kept the cash than a non-involved third party.

 

Unfortunately the Aussies seem to get the worst of it from what I understand.

The offers vary from market to market. I believe the Brits get some insurance /cancellation insurance from the government when booking cruises. Also, sometimes they get different things included (like drinks) that are not offered here.

Like Vaitape said - it is what it is.

[Shawnino]

"Being Canadian, we have had to reduce our travel budget as our Cdn $ is so much less than the US$. We now travel alot less than before because it is simply too expensive - paying 35% more than God Bless America guests does not sit well with us - even using a US TA."

Not understanding your statement here. If we booked with an overseas owned cruise ship company and our US$$ was less against the GBP, Euro, or Aussie $$, we should have a cost adjustment??

 

We recently purchased air tickets from LHR-DUB-LHR and had to pay the airfare in GBP which is more than if we purchased our tickets DUB-LHR-DUB if we were allowed to purchase tickets

in Euros. It is what is...

I'm not the wisest person with foreign transactions but to blame God Bless America TA's or Oceania, an American based cruise line, doesn't sit well with us.

 

 

I think you've been triggered and need a safe space or something.

 

Oceania prices their cruises in USD.

Say a cruise costs $10,000 USD.

Suppose I'm Canadian (I am) and make $50,000 Canadian a year.

If the Canadian and US dollars are at par, it costs me $10,000... 20% of my salary.

If the Canadian dollar is only worth 80 cents US today, the cruise costs me $12,500 Canadian... 25% of my salary.

[RJB]

I must have missed it...is Amazon getting into the cruise business?

Amazon ??? But Richard Branson is building Virgin Cruise lines, a new company. Two ships i think. He will give anyone a run for their money.

[ABoatNerd]

Oceania has a solid and unique spot in the premium category by enabling customization of your cruise experience. Buy just the cruise or add on various items. We love it.

 

Oceania, keep this business model.

 

We are taking our first R vessel voyage in October. Interested to see if the R ship size/configuration etc are suitable to us. Opinion seems to be divided if the R ships are "suitable" for Oceania's image. The small bathrooms would appear to detract from the product offering.

 

Future - I agree with many posters on various boards, world economic conditions are good right now, at the top of the cycle, hence strong bookings which promote new builds. This will not last foreever.

 

Would be interesting to know the volume of passengers for the premium level, more interesting would be the % migration from the mass cruise lines. Our Oceania cruise last September had many newbie's like us that fled the mass lines. Is this % enough to justify new builds?

 

 

Also, as I reported earlier, we have significantly reduced our foreign travel budget due to our declining Cdn $ against the US$. Others, like Aussies, have it even worse. Others have reported here they are also not traveling as much for the same reason.

 

Further, as reported by some posters, some long time Oceania guests are noticing downgrading - this is not good. The fares are not cheap and Oceania has to offer a product vastly superior to the mass lines (particularly the mass lines suite class). If not, there is less point in patronizing Oceania. This is a big concern for us as downgrading at Celebrity was a major reason we jumped to Oceania. If we see Oceania cheapen their product, then they will be back competing for our business with the mass lines.

[Shawnino]

Allow me to be the 1,057th person on this site to use the pun and say we are in-the-same-boat as BoatNerd.

We are also dealing with Canadian Dollars, and are coming from a mass-market line (in our case, NCL).

We find the costs on Oceania to be about 1.75x the cost on NCL.

If the food is substantially better and the overall experience is substantially more civilised, it'll be money well spent.

[LHT28]

I will add my 2 cents CAD

we are willing to pay O prices (so far) we have cut back on cruising as the exchange rates climb

 

When we were close to par with the USD I did stockpile a lot of $$ for a future cruises but now we are back at the higher exchange rate we simply just are not willing to spend outside the Country

 

It is a personal choice for us

 

It is what it is

[hillsprint]

 

We are taking our first R vessel voyage in October. Interested to see if the R ship size/configuration etc are suitable to us. Opinion seems to be divided if the R ships are "suitable" for Oceania's image. The small bathrooms would appear to detract from the product offering.

 

I'm afraid you've got your Rs back to front :D

 

You stated a few posts back that you are on Riviera in October, it's not a R ship, it's an O ship.

 

You were on Marina which is the other O class vessel

[LHT28]

I'm afraid you've got your Rs back to front :D

 

You stated a few posts back that you are on Riviera in October, it's not a R ship, it's an O ship.

 

You were on Marina which is a R ship.

Marina is O Class ship along with Riviera

R ships are Insignia, Regatta, Nautica & Sirena

[sammiedawg]

Oceania has a solid and unique spot in the premium category by enabling customization of your cruise experience. Buy just the cruise or add on various items. We love it.

 

Oceania, keep this business model.

 

We are taking our first R vessel voyage in October. Interested to see if the R ship size/configuration etc are suitable to us. Opinion seems to be divided if the R ships are "suitable" for Oceania's image. The small bathrooms would appear to detract from the product offering.

 

Future - I agree with many posters on various boards, world economic conditions are good right now, at the top of the cycle, hence strong bookings which promote new builds. This will not last foreever.

 

Would be interesting to know the volume of passengers for the premium level, more interesting would be the % migration from the mass cruise lines. Our Oceania cruise last September had many newbie's like us that fled the mass lines. Is this % enough to justify new builds?

 

 

Also, as I reported earlier, we have significantly reduced our foreign travel budget due to our declining Cdn $ against the US$. Others, like Aussies, have it even worse. Others have reported here they are also not traveling as much for the same reason.

 

Further, as reported by some posters, some long time Oceania guests are noticing downgrading - this is not good. The fares are not cheap and Oceania has to offer a product vastly superior to the mass lines (particularly the mass lines suite class). If not, there is less point in patronizing Oceania. This is a big concern for us as downgrading at Celebrity was a major reason we jumped to Oceania. If we see Oceania cheapen their product, then they will be back competing for our business with the mass lines.

 

I enjoy your thoughts.

We’ve been on every O ship. Can honestly say we enjoyed both the R and O ships. The R ship small bathrooms are a little irritating but not a deal breaker. We slightly prefer the O ships for the additional dining venues, two more specialty restaurants plus Privee (haven’t tried La Reserve).

Don’t worry about changes. We’ve seen nothing to indicate a cheapening of the product. We have approximately 150 days on Oceania and two more trips booked.

After trying quite a few cruise lines, Oceania is an almost perfect fit for us. We love their product, especially the beautiful ships, food and service. At the same time we don’t expect perfection- it doesn’t exist on the world.

[Cahpek]

There was a thread recently on Cruise Critic (don't remember where) about new ship build's. Lots of cruise lines had orders at the major shipyards. I think the thread indicated that the shipyards are booked at least 6 to 8 years out. No orders from Oceania for a new ship. Is Oceania's plan to just use their existing fleet indefinitely? The only "new-ish" ships they have are the Marina and Riviera, and I think they're 6+ years old now. The smaller R ships are much older. We recently cruised on the Marina (1st time on Oceania) and enjoyed it very much. We're hesitant to try an R ship due to all the feedback on the small cabins/bathrooms and overall age and condition of the ships.

Any Oceania experts here have any insight into what Oceania is thinking long term?

 

 

We like Viking Ocean, we also like Oceania and Azamara. Each have their strengths, and we would not hesitate to cruise with any of these companies. We enjoyed cruising with them all (although granted, though they are all excellent, no single cruise line is "perfect").

 

But what is curious is, Viking's fleet expansion at the moment while Oceania's fleet size seems to remain "stagnant", reminds me of the time when Oceania was expanding fast but Azamara seemed to remain "stagnant " when it came to fleet size increase.

 

Then, as most of us know, Oceania started to grow, and grow, and grow. And Azamara's size remained the same with just two "R" ships.

 

Only recently, has Azamara has finally started to grow, with an added a third "R" ship, but the company is still much smaller in total capacity offered compared to Oceania.

 

And then in comes Viking - its Ocean voyages started with only a couple years back, and to date, they already have 6 ships (all with same design with size between that of the "O" ships and "R" ships, big enough to offer more facilities, but small enough to offer intimacy and to dock in places which large ships are not allowed. ).

 

What is more, by 2027, Viking will have at least 16 ships, all of the same size. Meanwhile, Oceania has not announced any new ships to be added to its fleet of 6. Just what is happening to Oceania?

 

Why is Oceania not expanding and thus "allowing" Viking Ocean to surpass it in terms of fleet size? What Oceania seems to be doing (or not doing) is like what Azamara was doing (or was not doing) when Oceania overtook it.

 

Of course, one cannot be absolutely certain of the future. Is Viking right to expand its fleet so quickly. Is it smart and brave, or is it "foolish"? Will there not be a "glut" in the market in the near future? Will cruise fares come down because of increase competition? Is Oceania right (and "smart") to remain at the same size as it is in terms of its fleet? Will the "R" ships remain in service for the next 25 years, or so, or will they be replaced much earlier by newer models? Does Oceania has any plans in the pipeline for any more orders to increase or renew its fleet? So many answers, but who can answer them with any certainty?

 

I am not any wiser what is happening behind the scenes. But still, it is interesting to witness history almost being repeated when Viking Ocean overtakes Oceania (at least in fleet size), like when Oceania overtook Azamara. And it is equally interesting to observe the continual changes in the ocean cruise market. Maybe in the future, there may be another newcomer which will overtake Viking Ocean. Who knows?

 

Meanwhile, my partner and I, we'd just sit and wait for any special cruise offer(s) that comes along from any of these three cruise companies. And if the price and schedule/routing is right, we would happily take it/them. We are not bias towards any single cruise company. We'd certainly not behave like "fanboys" to any of them. We feel these cruise companies should serve the clients, not the other way around !

Edited July 10, 2018 by Cahpek

[buggins0402]

Amazon ??? But Richard Branson is building Virgin Cruise lines, a new company. Two ships i think. He will give anyone a run for their money.

 

 

The companies you listed in your previous message have all been "Amazoned" with it's different sales distribution model.

 

However, I do suspect that the mid tier cruise industry is going to have a over capacity issue in the future. I also wonder how enjoyable cruising will be in the future with overcrowded ports. The large number of ships coming on line have to go somewhere.

[Cahpek]

Amazon ??? But Richard Branson is building Virgin Cruise lines, a new company. Two ships i think. He will give anyone a run for their money.

 

 

Not too sure. Sometimes, I wonder the Virgin brand deserves the image and positive reputation it has. If based on reviews on Virgin Atlantic Airways http://www.airlinequality.com/seat-reviews/virgin-atlantic-airways/ , it certainly does not seem to give that impression. But different people's opinions are different and everything is open to debate, I guess!

 

We'll have to wait and see how much Virgin Cruises is really going to give anyone "a run for their money".

[Paulchili]

I also wonder how enjoyable cruising will be in the future with overcrowded ports. The large number of ships coming on line have to go somewhere.

 

You are right about that.

Nothing like having 10,000+ cruisers in Santorini and having to deal with the cable car (or donkeys) :D

Many other places, even larger than that, cannot cope with such overwhelming numbers of visitors (nor can I).

[pinotlover]

The river cruise lines ( read particularly Viking) are destroying the pleasure of visiting many of the towns along particularly the Rhine and Mosel. Nothing like having lines of river boats, rafted three deep, all visiting a small town at the same time.

 

Adding insult to injury, all the frigging tour buses because “heaven forbid” you ask some of those visitors to walk a kilometer in total! Much like with Oceania that had tour buses haul people the three hundred meters from the ship to the town wall in Split, or some of the other short hauls. Creating unnecessary stop and go traffic and destroying the ambiance of the villages. Kotor with five ships, some mega ships, doesn’t create the old world charm one was expecting!

[shellsrus]

We like Viking Ocean, we also like Oceania and Azamara. Each have their strengths, and we would not hesitate to cruise with any of these companies. We enjoyed cruising with them all (although granted, though they are all excellent, no single cruise line is "perfect").

 

But what is curious is, Viking's fleet expansion at the moment while Oceania's fleet size seems to remain "stagnant", reminds me of the time when Oceania was expanding fast but Azamara seemed to remain "stagnant " when it came to fleet size increase.

 

Then, as most of us know, Oceania started to grow, and grow, and grow. And Azamara's size remained the same with just two "R" ships.

 

Only recently, has Azamara has finally started to grow, with an added a third "R" ship, but the company is still much smaller in total capacity offered compared to Oceania.

 

And then in comes Viking - its Ocean voyages started with only a couple years back, and to date, they already have 6 ships (all with same design with size between that of the "O" ships and "R" ships, big enough to offer more facilities, but small enough to offer intimacy and to dock in places which large ships are not allowed. ).

 

What is more, by 2027, Viking will have at least 16 ships, all of the same size. Meanwhile, Oceania has not announced any new ships to be added to its fleet of 6. Just what is happening to Oceania?

 

Why is Oceania not expanding and thus "allowing" Viking Ocean to surpass it in terms of fleet size? What Oceania seems to be doing (or not doing) is like what Azamara was doing (or was not doing) when Oceania overtook it.

 

Of course, one cannot be absolutely certain of the future. Is Viking right to expand its fleet so quickly. Is it smart and brave, or is it "foolish"? Will there not be a "glut" in the market in the near future? Will cruise fares come down because of increase competition? Is Oceania right (and "smart") to remain at the same size as it is in terms of its fleet? Will the "R" ships remain in service for the next 25 years, or so, or will they be replaced much earlier by newer models? Does Oceania has any plans in the pipeline for any more orders to increase or renew its fleet? So many answers, but who can answer them with any certainty?

 

I am not any wiser what is happening behind the scenes. But still, it is interesting to witness history almost being repeated when Viking Ocean overtakes Oceania (at least in fleet size), like when Oceania overtook Azamara. And it is equally interesting to observe the continual changes in the ocean cruise market. Maybe in the future, there may be another newcomer which will overtake Viking Ocean. Who knows?

 

Meanwhile, my partner and I, we'd just sit and wait for any special cruise offer(s) that comes along from any of these three cruise companies. And if the price and schedule/routing is right, we would happily take it/them. We are not bias towards any single cruise company. We'd certainly not behave like "fanboys" to any of them. We feel these cruise companies should serve the clients, not the other way around !

 

Great post, and very much in keeping with the intent of this thread. I am the OP of this now lengthy thread. I have a lot of the same the questions you do. I've only cruised once so far on Oceania (Marina). I liked it, but was hesitant to try an R ship given all the mixed reviews. If what I read on the ship building posts are correct, there is no possibility for Oceania to have a new ship for at least 8+ years, all the yards are fully booked and they have no orders in and none, apparently, planned. Their only option for adding to the fleet in the short term seems to be refurbishing older ships (like the R ships).

 

I think the aggressive Viking expansion is a good comparison here given the similar ship sizes on the two lines (have not cruised on Viking) and the similar, adult, more premium demographic they seem to be going after. If Viking is offering comparable rates on newer, more advanced ships, and their food/service levels are comparable, why would I, or anybody, want to go on a much older ship with fewer features, tiny bathrooms and clingy shower curtains?

 

If Viking is as successful with the many new ships they have coming on line as they have been so far with their existing fleet, this is bad news for Oceania, and maybe Regent/Seabourn/Silversea too, although their niche is a little different. All the new capacity Viking is planning to bring on line has to come from somewhere. They will no doubt expand itineraries offered and cover pretty much everywhere there is to cruise, except perhaps hard core expedition cruising. Can't see how Oceania can survive and prosper long term without somehow responding to the very aggressive competition they'll be facing.

[LHT28]

I think the aggressive Viking expansion is a good comparison here given the similar ship sizes on the two lines (have not cruised on Viking) and the similar, adult, more premium demographic they seem to be going after. If Viking is offering comparable rates on newer, more advanced ships, and their food/service levels are comparable, why would I, or anybody, want to go on a much older ship with fewer features, tiny bathrooms and clingy shower curtains?

 

.

Just because they build many new ships to flood the market does not mean they are good

 

Some people will love them until the cracks start to show

 

it is not just about the new shiny ships but about the ambiance & other intangibles

 

If Viking works for you great it is not for everyone

 

JMO

[pinotlover]

An interesting aspect to all of this is the limited cruise options in winter. The Carribean is already glutted with ships creating fire sale prices on some cruises. All these additional new ships will add to that. A week on a cruise ship in the Carribean in winter may become cheaper than staying at a Holiday Inn!

[Hawaiidan]

An interesting aspect to all of this is the limited cruise options in winter. The Carribean is already glutted with ships creating fire sale prices on some cruises. All these additional new ships will add to that. A week on a cruise ship in the Carribean in winter may become cheaper than staying at a Holiday Inn!

 

The fact , however, remains it is in the Caribbean . Some one once said that there is really only 1 island in the carribean

and the ship s leave and circle around while they change the signs at the pier to a different name for the next day. .

[Hawaiidan]

We like Viking Ocean, we also like Oceania and Azamara. Each have their strengths, and we would not hesitate to cruise with any of these companies. We enjoyed cruising with them all (although granted, though they are all excellent, no single cruise line is "perfect").

 

 

That is an assumption only you can make for your self , or another can make for themselves.!!

 

So yes it is entirely possible for a cruise line to be best or perfect for a personal choice.

 

After many lines, ads and experiences I selected O as perfect in every respect for me. It doesn't matter what others think.. that is their opinion. My objection to Viking is their overly aggressive advertising and claiming all sorts of wonderful awards... over selling and brain washing in effect the public.. Rubs me the wrong way. Just as More is not better, neither is new.

[RJB]

Not too sure. Sometimes, I wonder the Virgin brand deserves the image and positive reputation it has. If based on reviews on Virgin Atlantic Airways http://www.airlinequality.com/seat-reviews/virgin-atlantic-airways/ , it certainly does not seem to give that impression. But different people's opinions are different and everything is open to debate, I guess!

 

We'll have to wait and see how much Virgin Cruises is really going to give anyone "a run for their money".

We have been on Virgin-atlantic airways many times and think is is among the best in the world. (upper class) Do not know about the back of the plane but think it would compare to others. Also, Virgin-Australia and Virgin-America. My opinion is that anything he founds is top shelf and would think the same should be true of Virgin Voyages. Time will tell. :):)

[Jancruz]

FYI..For those that were not around for Renaissance the reason they went out of business in addition to the disaster of 9/11 was that they overbuilt the R ships and could not fill them 8 ships in a couple of years....those of us that were around remember $999 for 10 days in a balcony including air fare..

Plus..An interesting fact you may not know..

The new Viking ships are the following..when Ren was built they had a 2nd generation of ships drawn up ..900 passengers..when they went out of business in 2001 the plans for those ships were put away..later they were bought by Viking, which is why the Viking ships are so similar to the R ships.,they did take out the casino that was drawn in there..

Just some fun facts..

Dont worry about Oceania..they are doing fine!!

Jancruz1

[bigmjh]

Thanks, Jan ... did not know this.