Butlins

[daiB]

40 minutes ago, Presto2 said:

 

Thanks for the reassurance 🙂 Am sure we will be ok on Azura ----

 

Of course any problems with food on a ship can only be valid for a relatively short time with staff turnover. This must be the case for all cruise lines.

[Presto2]

19 minutes ago, daiB said:

 

Of course any problems with food on a ship can only be valid for a relatively short time with staff turnover. This must be the case for all cruise lines.

 

Well, we went back to Celebrity in August and it was certainly not head and shoulders above P&O. To be honest, we put that down to the ship and are expecting better in August in the Celebrity Edge. It will be interesting to compare her with Azura (taking into account how much we have paid for each cruise)

 

:-)

[sidekick180]

I hope things have improved on Azura by May. We are on her from 4th to 11th May and really looking forward to it. We were on Ventura in May last year and thoroughly enjoyed it all, especially the entertainment. The food was also very good everywhere we ate. I can only hope the entertainment and food on Azura is of a similar standard. I think we went to every show at both ends of the ship and also spent a lot of time listening to the band in the middle of the ship. As for Captains, we found the Captain on Ventura to be a little bit bland and never actually saw him, but to be fair, they are there to ensure we get to each destination safely and on time, so it really didn't bother us at all.

[terrierjohn]

We are currently on Ventura with Andy Willard setting the scene for a happy ship, the food has been quite good in the MDR, some menus better than others, and the breakfast buffet perfectly adequate. Service maybe has improved a bit, although the glass house service was slow and rather disjointed, and customer service/reception is still not as good as it should be. But overall a very enjoyable cruise and good value for money.

[Eglesbrech]

2 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

We are currently on Ventura with Andy Willard setting the scene for a happy ship, the food has been quite good in the MDR, some menus better than others, and the breakfast buffet perfectly adequate. Service maybe has improved a bit, although the glass house service was slow and rather disjointed, and customer service/reception is still not as good as it should be. But overall a very enjoyable cruise and good value for money.

Glad you are enjoying a good cruise. Have fun.

[sidekick180]

Not that it really matters, but does anyone know who will be the captain on Azura in May? Or is there any way to find out who it will be. I'm just curious since people have been saying how much difference a captain can make to the enjoyment of a cruise. Having said that, I am going to enjoy my cruise even if it's an alien at the helm.

[Harry Peterson]

26 minutes ago, sidekick180 said:

Not that it really matters, but does anyone know who will be the captain on Azura in May? Or is there any way to find out who it will be. I'm just curious since people have been saying how much difference a captain can make to the enjoyment of a cruise. Having said that, I am going to enjoy my cruise even if it's an alien at the helm.

Could be worse - could be Donald Trump.  😵

Edited January 29, 2019 by docco

[wowzz]

P&O are between a rock and a hard place. They have ever bigger ships to fill, but with more and more competition, albeit sometimes from sister companies.  They have tried to pretend that they are offering an up market experience, (Rob Brydon - yes , you!) but in order to fill the cabins are having to reduce fares. Something has to give, and it seems that quality is suffering as a result.

It is interesting to note that Marella are not promoting the up market route, but are offering a 'holiday experience' with a simple all inclusive, no gratuities approach.  Going by the number of first time cruisers posting on the cruise forum on Trip Advisor, their approach seems to be working, despite the fact that the cruises seem to be more expensive than the comparative P&O alternative. 

It may be that P& O need to  change their philosophy,  possibly alienating their older, but inevitably fewer customers,  and adopt a more contemporary approach to cruising, in order to attract the customers of the future.

[Harry Peterson]

That's a good analysis of the situation, wowzz, and there are signs that it's already happening.  It's the customers of the future that really matter - not the ones clinging to the past who'll soon no longer be cruising.  There are signs that they're changing (more up to date menus, for example - though these don't always go down well with older cruisers) and there will be more.  Formal nights will probably slowly be phased out as part of the process as the age profile changes.

 

Marks and Spencer are suffering because they forgot their younger customers (most of whom wouldn't be seen dead there) - Carnival is probably smart enough not to make the same mistake.

[davecttr]

Interesting point about Marella not going up market. With their latest ships and especially Explorer the onboard facilities are as good if not better than the mid range P&O ships. The built in drinks package is good and the upgrade to Premium (everything except Champagne) is a steal at £50 per week, especially if you like craft gins/whiskies and lovely Lavazza coffee. Tips have been included in the fare for years and P&O made the right decision to introduce this. How can they offer really premium spirits for £50 per week? Maybe because a bottle of that spirit costs them less than a pound wholesale? P&O need to sort out a 'free' drinks package as well

[wowzz]

Perhaps I should have said that Marella are not promoting an up market appeal. To do so, would, I believe, alienate their target market, who basically consider cruising to be the nautical equivalent of a land based AI resort, and are not interested in formal  nights, etc.

[ozzysdad]

13 hours ago, Presto2 said:

 

You directed your comment at mine about Captains so I responded to that. Not a problem to make a comment but not sure it is within the rules of CC to be insulting to others - I felt that saying you laughed at comments such as mine offensive, so just saying that it can come across wrong.

 

Re the OP - personally I don't agree re Butlins. Have actually been to Butlins by the way when young and have fond memories.

Not sure how you know they were not made in good faith and not true.

 

End of discussion -- moving on

 

For future reference if I quote you I am referring to you, just because my reply to the topic was after yours it doesn't necessarily mean it was in relation to your post.

[Eglesbrech]

11 hours ago, wowzz said:

P&O are between a rock and a hard place. They have ever bigger ships to fill, but with more and more competition, albeit sometimes from sister companies.  They have tried to pretend that they are offering an up market experience, (Rob Brydon - yes , you!) but in order to fill the cabins are having to reduce fares. Something has to give, and it seems that quality is suffering as a result.

It is interesting to note that Marella are not promoting the up market route, but are offering a 'holiday experience' with a simple all inclusive, no gratuities approach.  Going by the number of first time cruisers posting on the cruise forum on Trip Advisor, their approach seems to be working, despite the fact that the cruises seem to be more expensive than the comparative P&O alternative. 

It may be that P& O need to  change their philosophy,  possibly alienating their older, but inevitably fewer customers,  and adopt a more contemporary approach to cruising, in order to attract the customers of the future.

 

I would agree that advertising tries to be upmarket but the product no longer is. It is much more basic that it was even ten years ago, reflected in the comparatively lower price. 

 

Marella dont try try to be posh and they are thriving but part of that is the fact that they offer regional sailing from the Uk and direct flights from right across the Uk.

 

P&O need to decide what they want to be, a basic holiday that sell it cheap and stack em high or a more upmarket offering in which case they need to reverse the degradation of the product we have seen over recent years.

 

[Host Sharon]

19 hours ago, daiB said:

 

Only telling the truth I know you don’t like it. 

 

Cruising with other lines has nothing nothing to do with it at all. Although as you know I have been on another line. 

The truth as you see it Dai. Please allow others their opinions.

[daiB]

3 minutes ago, Host Sharon said:

The truth as you see it Dai. Please allow others their opinions.

 

Only they do not want me to have my opinion. 

[Harry Peterson]

36 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

 

I would agree that advertising tries to be upmarket but the product no longer is. It is much more basic that it was even ten years ago, reflected in the comparatively lower price. 

 

Marella dont try try to be posh and they are thriving but part of that is the fact that they offer regional sailing from the Uk and direct flights from right across the Uk.

 

P&O need to decide what they want to be, a basic holiday that sell it cheap and stack em high or a more upmarket offering in which case they need to reverse the degradation of the product we have seen over recent years.

 

Maybe that's essentially the problem with P&O.  It's marketed as some kind of luxury product, which to be fair it used a very long time ago to be, but plainly isn't anything of the sort.

 

It's a lower to mid market product sold at prices to match, and provided you accept that's what you're getting (which I do) it's fine.  If you're expecting the dream that they advertise, you may be less than happy.  The recent Which? survey (separate thread) showed that it didn't perform too well against the competition, and that's probably because Which? readers expect to get what they're being sold - they're also a bit choosy.

 

The formal nights are, I'm quite sure, just a cynical ploy by Carnival/P&O to try to make it seem a bit more upmarket than it actually is - at no cost to themselves they manage to create an atmosphere that reflects the past glory days of the old P&O before the Carnival accountants got their grubby little hands on it.

[Britboys]

Everyone's experience on a cruise is just that - their experience, and is very subjective.  Last January I cruised with Marella for the first (and probably last) time.  My view of that cruise was that both the food and entertainment were very poor and nowhere near the standard I had experienced on two P&O cruises the previous year. I know however that there were plenty of pax on the same cruise who thought the food was good and entertainment great.

 

There are also so many aspects of a cruise that affect our experiences depending on what we want out of it.  For instance, I don't need a balcony or multiple dining venues but to some others they are an important part of their cruise.  I tend to sail on the smaller ships by today's standards and enjoy a 'classic' cruise experience and so far have found that P&O provide that very well aboard Oriana and Aurora.  I only have one P&O cruise booked this year and it is only 4 nights, on Azura.  I will be interested to find out whether I feel the experience is as good as as my last P&O cruises on Aurora & Oriana in 2017.

 

You only need to look at the passenger reviews on this website to see just how subjective our experiences are, where you can read reviews on the the same cruise that vary from 1 star to 5 star.

[chrisg1uk]

I have only been on 3 cruises over 6 years, (all with P&O to the Caribbean, so I don't know whether I'm permitted to post or even have an opinion on this subject.  As such I guess I am one of those who has been able to cruise thanks to the almost much lamented by some lower prices.  In my opinion, and I don't care if some don't agree, the basic product has changed very little with the exception of the entertainment which I think was very poor on my most recent holiday.   What has changed, even in my relatively short experience, is the attitude to formality of many of customers.  More and more folk seem to prefer a far more relaxed approach and recently P&O staff were not enforcing their own policies as strongly as previously.  This leads to problems as some holiday makers are obviously keen that others "follow the rules" - while others seem to enjoy pushing back against the codes even to the extent that one guy I met had to buy a pair of long trousers at the first stop as he hadn't packed any.   As others have said, P&O need to decide where they want to put themselves in the market and if they want to retain things like the dress codes then they should enforce them.  Otherwise drop them so everyone knows where they stand.  I enjoyed my holiday as frankly I don't really care what others do so long as they don't affect me.                        

[Ian T]

Its interesting reading the views /opinions on this topic and that's what makes a debate. I personally have seen some changes in the 30 years I have been cruising, however some of the changes are due to their being more passengers and bigger ships. For me personally and my family the variety of services etc on the ships has meant some cracking holidays and making new friends who we have cruised with since. I cant personally say I have noticed a change in the quality of food in any of the locations, yes it was good getting the service at the table for the vegetables etc, but I guess the meal is now quicker to be able to eat.

Here is a question, are standards dropping or are choices evolving in the same way as modern life?

[Britboys]

2 hours ago, chrisg1uk said:

I have only been on 3 cruises over 6 years, (all with P&O to the Caribbean, so I don't know whether I'm permitted to post or even have an opinion on this subject...                    

 

Not only are you permitted to post but you have every right to.  Thank you for sharing your experience and thoughts.

[terrierjohn]

4 hours ago, Eglesbrech said:

 

I would agree that advertising tries to be upmarket but the product no longer is. It is much more basic that it was even ten years ago, reflected in the comparatively lower price. 

 

Marella dont try try to be posh and they are thriving but part of that is the fact that they offer regional sailing from the Uk and direct flights from right across the Uk.

 

P&O need to decide what they want to be, a basic holiday that sell it cheap and stack em high or a more upmarket offering in which case they need to reverse the degradation of the product we have seen over recent years.

 

Regional sailings from the UK on Marella only seem available on the older ships, and only for northern Europe sailings, they certainly do not appeal to me, and Marella prices are significantly higher than P&Os launch offers.

I certainly have no idea whether Marella achieves higher profits than P&O, but I doubt there is much difference in the cruise experience, having sailed several cruise lines I think the experience is over 90% similar on all lines.

Edited January 30, 2019 by terrierjohn

[amajaa]

It’s a pity if as you say it has gone downhill but I do feel the booing says more about the passengers than the poor girl trying to do the quiz or bingo. Perhaps it was her first time or she had been slotted in at the last moment because someone else was ill or something.

 

Unfortunately people are still expecting to get Cruises at prices from 10 years ago and then complain about them. You only get what you pay for and if the customer is demanding cheaper cruises there will be cutbacks. 

 

Bit weird about the Captain, did you catch his name?

 

As for the vegan thing that seems to be the norm at the moment with everyone everywhere trying to tell us we should go vegan. Now the modern human has been eating meat ever since they evolved, had they not had done so I don’t think we would have humans as they are now but we all would be still living in trees eating nuts. I guess on that one they are trying to keep up with the times unfortunately.

 

Whar a shame you didn’t enjoy your cruise, I hope our upcoming one on Oriana is a lot better than yours. 

[Eglesbrech]

2 hours ago, Ian T said:

Its interesting reading the views /opinions on this topic and that's what makes a debate. I personally have seen some changes in the 30 years I have been cruising, however some of the changes are due to their being more passengers and bigger ships. For me personally and my family the variety of services etc on the ships has meant some cracking holidays and making new friends who we have cruised with since. I cant personally say I have noticed a change in the quality of food in any of the locations, yes it was good getting the service at the table for the vegetables etc, but I guess the meal is now quicker to be able to eat.

Here is a question, are standards dropping or are choices evolving in the same way as modern life?

 

Both. Standards / quality is dropping and choices are evolving.

 

Re dress codes for example modern life is much more casual and ship dress code rules are evolving to accommodate that. As you will remember 30 years ago you were not allowed in the MDR with shorts even at breakfast or lunch, now no one thinks twice about that and some even try to get away with it for dinner!

 

Same with for example freedom dining, people don’t like to be coraled into specific dining times or adhere to timetables. The choice is great but the downside is more pressure on the staff and kitchen when there are not fixed times and so something has to give and so it is some of the little extra touches.

 

Standards or rather quality of the overall product has dropped, for example stopping the really fancy chocolate buffets, special midnight buffets with ice carvings, champagne fountains, complimentary room service, iced water in the cabin each day, proper tea sets in the cabin, silver service, band at the sail away etc etc. Some are not that big a deal but I do miss some of it.

 

And while this is just my personal opinion the quality of entertainment is not as good, the type of acts that you now pay extra for in the Limelight used to be on the main stage. Again just my opinion and others will disagree but the food portions, choices and quality have also diminished - my personal bugbear is the pathetic plate of tasteless plastic cheese that is now served as a “cheeseboard”. The only decent cheese now is the Stilton.

 

Its still a reasonable package for a reasonable price so we will continue to use P&O for the odd cruise along with other lines.

 

[davecttr]

17 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Regional sailings from the UK on Marella only seem available on the older ships, and only for northern Europe sailings, they certainly do not appeal to me, and Marella prices are significantly higher than P&Os launch offers.

I certainly have no idea whether Marella achieves higher profits than P&O, but I doubt there is much difference in the cruise experience, having sailed several cruise lines I think the experience is over 90% similar on all lines.

Explorer in Newcastle this summer and then 3 cruises from Southampton in September

 

Explorer is beautiful with as many or more onboard options than the P&O mid sized ships.

 

Marella have preferred access to TUI airlines so it does not make business sense to waste days sailing from the UK when you can be in the med sun in a few hours

 

I agree that the cruise experience is more similar than different. For me the difference between P&O and Marella is Marella is more relaxed, although if you cruise on P&O Oceana you will find that the formal bits are only the main dining rooms and the small Magnums bar

 

Mentioning formal bits leads to confusion with P&O. The web site says formal wear is required in the Glass House on Azura and Ventura on black tie nights, not so, on my last cruise on the pair of ships the Glass House was evening casual on formal nights. I asked about this and the answer was , no, it is evening casual and always has been. After all why would you want formal wear in a bar who's concept is a relaxed informal bar!

[Eglesbrech]

32 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Regional sailings from the UK on Marella only seem available on the older ships, and only for northern Europe sailings, they certainly do not appeal to me, and Marella prices are significantly higher than P&Os launch offers.

I certainly have no idea whether Marella achieves higher profits than P&O, but I doubt there is much difference in the cruise experience, having sailed several cruise lines I think the experience is over 90% similar on all lines.

 

In broadly the same price range they probably do offer a similar product with odd better bits on one line and odd better bits on another.

 

Some are however ever completely different (at a price). Have you tried Disney for example.