Ship Within A Ship

[cruisemom42]

24 minutes ago, SantaFeFan said:

 

I am referring to taking something away from one group of people that they used to enjoy in order to give it to people who have more money to spend. 

 

 

 

Yes. I think a good analogy is to imagine that Central Park, a treasured oasis in the middle of Manhattan, went from being a park that was open to all to a gated, exclusive enclave/club only available to those wealthy uptown types who could plunk down ten million bucks for a golden key. 

 

Some might say that they are entitled to it if they have the money. I'm sure it would be very pleasant for them. But I happen to disagree with the concept that space traditionally set aside for the many should be limited to the few. And while I couldn't afford $10 million for a golden key, I could afford to cruise in a "ship within a ship" if I wanted to do so.

 

I don't.

[leaveitallbehind]

52 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Yes. I think a good analogy is to imagine that Central Park, a treasured oasis in the middle of Manhattan, went from being a park that was open to all to a gated, exclusive enclave/club only available to those wealthy uptown types who could plunk down ten million bucks for a golden key. 

 

 

I believe you are referring to Gramercy Park, which is private.  Central Park is free and is accessible to all.  I'm also not sure of the accuracy of your information regarding the cost for the keys.  From what I understand the annual key rental fee for residents bordering the park is $350 with a loss replacement fee of $1000.  A far cry from $10MM, which is more the value of some of the Gramercy properties surrounding the park!  I also believe it has been private since the mid-1800's. Perhaps others can confirm.

Edited February 5, 2019 by leaveitallbehind

[leaveitallbehind]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Yes. I think a good analogy is to imagine that Central Park, a treasured oasis in the middle of Manhattan, went from being a park that was open to all to a gated, exclusive enclave/club only available to those wealthy uptown types who could plunk down ten million bucks for a golden key. 

 

Some might say that they are entitled to it if they have the money. I'm sure it would be very pleasant for them. But I happen to disagree with the concept that space traditionally set aside for the many should be limited to the few. And while I couldn't afford $10 million for a golden key, I could afford to cruise in a "ship within a ship" if I wanted to do so.

 

I don't.

 

Please ignore my prior post as - although the information provided is accurate regarding Gramercy Park - I overlooked the critical statement in your post about imagining that Central Park went private!!  Here I am thinking I'm responding to a typo you made only to realize I can't read!

 

My mistake - I clearly need to read more carefully!! 

 

And to your analogy - I agree!!

Edited February 6, 2019 by leaveitallbehind

[Toofarfromthesea]

3 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Yes. I think a good analogy is to imagine that Central Park, a treasured oasis in the middle of Manhattan, went from being a park that was open to all to a gated, exclusive enclave/club only available to those wealthy uptown types who could plunk down ten million bucks for a golden key. 

 

Some might say that they are entitled to it if they have the money. I'm sure it would be very pleasant for them. But I happen to disagree with the concept that space traditionally set aside for the many should be limited to the few. And while I couldn't afford $10 million for a golden key, I could afford to cruise in a "ship within a ship" if I wanted to do so.

 

I don't.

No it is a terrible analogy - one is public property the other involves a profit seeking business.

All I really see in those pushing this caste business is basic envy.

[sverigecruiser]

8 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Really? 

Take the air credit, add FF points and fly any class  you like.

Actually, the lux lines may include bizclass while the premiums rely heavily on economy. Often depends on itinerary.  

😎

 

Yes, really. Isn't it obvious that if I want to cruise on a luxury line I don't want to fly economy? If a luxury line say that the airline tickets are included it should really be in business or first, I think.

[Flatbush Flyer]

2 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

Yes, really. Isn't it obvious that if I want to cruise on a luxury line I don't want to fly economy? If a luxury line say that the airline tickets are included it should really be in business or first, I think.

You are certainly entitled to think whatever you want. But, you may need a reality check:

 

For example, a 10 day Tahiti round trip "O Life" fare on a premium line like Oceania would run about $4500/person (ocean view) including economy airfare (value of $1500/person) and other expensive perks like excursions or booze (value $600). Of course, other things that are optional on a mass market line - beverages, unlimited internet, unlimited specialty restaurants, etc are included on O. 

 

Retail value of a RT bizclass ticket SFO-PPT averages about $7500/person. Needless to say, Oceania (or any other cruise line) would go out of business if they gave folks a $7500/person biz class ticket for a $4500/person cruise.

 

Do the math and be happy that you could take an air credit of about $1500 and reduce the cost of your bizclass ticket by 20%  (even more if you add FF points to the mix) while enjoying excellent food and service (but no "nickel-diming") on a ship with less than 700 passengers.

 

BTW: use the right TA and you could probably get gratuities covered for that trip ($320/cabin) and about $600+\- per cabin in refundable SBC.

 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2019 by Flatbush Flyer

[sverigecruiser]

2 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

You are certainly entitled to think whatever you want. But, you may need a reality check:

 

For example, a 10 day Tahiti round trip "O Life" fare on a premium line like Oceania would run about $4500/person (ocean view) including economy airfare (value of $1500/person) and other expensive perks like excursions or booze (value $600). Of course, other things that are optional on a mass market line - beverages, unlimited internet, unlimited specialty restaurants, etc are included on O. 

 

Retail value of a RT bizclass ticket SFO-PPT averages about $7500/person. Needless to say, Oceania (or any other cruise line) would go out of business if they gave folks a $7500/person biz class ticket for a $4500/person cruise.

 

Do the math and be happy that you could take an air credit of about $1500 and reduce the cost of your bizclass ticket by 20%  (even more if you add FF points to the mix) while enjoying excellent food and service (but no "nickel-diming") on a ship with less than 700 passengers.

 

BTW: use the right TA and you could probably get gratuities covered for that trip ($320/cabin) and about $600+\- per cabin in refundable SBC.

 

 

 

 

I don't need a reality check, I know about the prices.

 

I still think that included airfare should be in at least business class if a luxury line offer included airfare, otherwise it's better not to say that the airfare is included.

Edited February 6, 2019 by sverigecruiser

[Hlitner]

7 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

I don't need a reality check, I know about the prices.

 

I still think that included airfare should be in at least business class if a luxury line offer included airfare, otherwise it's better not to say that the airfare is included.

Perhaps the discussion should also be whether....or not...."O" is a luxury line.  Consider that "O" does not include free drinks (except if booked as a promo) and their older "R" ships are anything but luxurious.  We do like the R ships and first cruised on them in the 90s and enjoyed the vessels.  But their cabin sizes hardly meet luxury standards.

 

Even some of the very posh luxury lines do not include free business class air...unless one is in one of the higher category cabins or perhaps taking a World cruise.

 

Hank

[Flatbush Flyer]

22 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Perhaps the discussion should also be whether....or not...."O" is a luxury line.  Consider that "O" does not include free drinks (except if booked as a promo) and their older "R" ships are anything but luxurious.  We do like the R ships and first cruised on them in the 90s and enjoyed the vessels.  But their cabin sizes hardly meet luxury standards.

 

Even some of the very posh luxury lines do not include free business class air...unless one is in one of the higher category cabins or perhaps taking a World cruise.

 

Hank

It is OP who keeps referring to Oceania a a "luxury" line while I (and pretty much everyone else on earth) always refer to it as "premium."

Of course, now that Celebrity TV ads self-identify that line as "premium," Oceania and Azamara will need to add "ultra" to their "premium" designation.

 

As for the R ships, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

 

Even though their spaces and amenities are already quite "luxurious" (remember that O spent 40 million only a few years ago to transform the former Ocean Princess "R ship" into Sirena), Oceania is now doing a complete interior remodeling of all four R ships (including bathrooms and showers in particular). 

 

Insignia (recently departed on the 2019 world cruise) was the first to get this "Oceania NEXT" interior makeover and the reports I've gotten are that it is just spectacular. Even so, those folks who may have "space issues" with cabin bathrooms have the two new 1100 passenger Allura class ships (2022 and 2025) on the horizon.

 

Meanwhile, with the unequaled quality of food, service, amenities and bottom line value on Oceania, I don't think they're worried about not filling any of the R ships.

 

BTW: as small sailing yacht owners, we always chuckle at comments by folks who think any accommodations on most cruise ships are "too small."

[Hlitner]

ROFL!   🙂

 

Hank

[GeezerCouple]

3 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

 

<snip>

 

 

Looks just wonderful!

 

When do reservations open? 

GC

[Flatbush Flyer]

4 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

Looks just wonderful!

 

When do reservations open? 

GC

You may find yourself more interested in "my"' other passion.

[LHT28]

Just now, Flatbush Flyer said:

 

sorry to interrupt  the arguing

What make is your boat ?

I agree about the size of cabins  on the R ships  after being in a 26" sailboat the basic cabins are  fine for us 😉

[Flatbush Flyer]

15 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

 

sorry to interrupt  the arguing

What make is your boat ?

I agree about the size of cabins  on the R ships  after being in a 26" sailboat the basic cabins are  fine for us 😉

Hunter 30' fractional rig sloop (rigged for single handed sailing). Given our local SF Bay currents, that's pretty much the smallest length advisable keeled boat.

 

[LHT28]

Just now, Flatbush Flyer said:

Hunter 30' fractional rig sloop (rigged for single handed sailing). Given our local SF Bay currents, that's pretty much the smallest length advisable keeled boat.

 

 

Nice

I could not place the design by the transom 😉

[Flatbush Flyer]

58 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

 

Nice

I could not place the design by the transom 😉

Hunter models from 1990(?) on switched to a rear entry (not just the 30'). If you zoom in on the pic at the rear spring line on the port aft rail, you can make out part of the Hunter logo on the hull just below the rail.

Do/did you have a 26' boat? What kind?

[TheOldBear]

7 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

It is OP who keeps referring to Oceania a a "luxury" line while I (and pretty much everyone else on earth) always refer to it as "premium."

Of course, now that Celebrity TV ads self-identify that line as "premium," Oceania and Azamara will need to add "ultra" to their "premium" designation.

 

As for the R ships, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

 

Even though their spaces and amenities are already quite "luxurious" (remember that O spent 40 million only a few years ago to transform the former Ocean Princess "R ship" into Sirena), Oceania is now doing a complete interior remodeling of all four R ships (including bathrooms and showers in particular). 

 

Insignia (recently departed on the 2019 world cruise) was the first to get this "Oceania NEXT" interior makeover and the reports I've gotten are that it is just spectacular. Even so, those folks who may have "space issues" with cabin bathrooms have the two new 1100 passenger Allura class ships (2022 and 2025) on the horizon.

 

Meanwhile, with the unequaled quality of food, service, amenities and bottom line value on Oceania, I don't think they're worried about not filling any of the R ships.

 

BTW: as small sailing yacht owners, we always chuckle at comments by folks who think any accommodations on most cruise ships are "too small."

 

It that at the Gowanus Yacht Club?

😉

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, TheOldBear said:

 

It that at the Gowanus Yacht Club?

😉

Fortunately, while I was born and spent my first 20 years (including Brooklyn College) in Brooklyn, I long ago joined the zillions of New Yorkers who are now in the SF Bay Area.

That photo was taken at the Richmond Yacht Club on SF Bay, consistently home to the production of the most US Olympic sailors.

Edited February 7, 2019 by Flatbush Flyer

[AL3XCruise]

On 2/6/2019 at 12:58 PM, Flatbush Flyer said:

TW: as small sailing yacht owners, we always chuckle at comments by folks who think any accommodations on most cruise ships are "too small."

 

So if you load that onto a cruise ship, does it become a ship within a ship?  Or at least a sailboat within a ship?

 

Just trying to stay on topic.  🙂