Theft from cabin safe on Anthem

[akcruz]

42 minutes ago, Sizzlechest said:

 

You can open it with the code, the owner key, a master key, OR a physical key. Not a combination of those methods. EITHER of them. Anyone on the ship who knows the code doesn't need any keys to open the safe. Anyone with a key doesn't need the code. Nowhere in the manual does it say the temporary code, which is what the passenger is using, is reset if any other method to gain entry is used. YOU WILL NOT KNOW YOUR SAFE HAS BEEN OPENED BY THE STAFF!

 

Every safe we have ever used on a ship you have had to enter a code or swipe a card to LOCK the safe, then use the same method to open it, basically resetting the entry method each time the safe is opened.  If someone on the ship overrode whatever to open it, then how did they close it with the same information the OP used?  If they used any other method than what the OP did they would have known the next time they attempted to open the safe.

 

I truly believe the item was erroneously left in the safe or never put back and fell at some point where they did not notice it.

Edited March 18, 2019 by akcruz
Added info

[rimmit]

1 minute ago, Balsam12 said:

Really?

 

You really think the luggage scanning on the ship couldn't detect an xbox? Especially if they know one has been stolen and are therefore looking for it. Add to the cameras on the ship that could track whoever stole it as well.

 

Stolen xboxes are more far fetched than the OP's story about stolen jewellery.

 

Unless the ship actually kept the serial numbers how could they say it’s not there?  I know many people that have brought video game systems into their cabin.   

 

I agree that cameras should have caught it.  I am just stating the facts.  Two plastic containers were empty, with cracked plastic around the locks.   The crew said they were stolen.   If they were just down for repair you would think the plastic would be intact.  Those are the facts.  Whether it’s the truth I don’t know.  I asked because the lines were a little long and one of our favorite downtime activities when our daughter was napping in the cabin was to go to the Xbox pod and play up there,  and my son was sorely disappointed when 2/5 xboxes were missing.

 

I am only stating the FACTS.  It could be a coverup.  Who knows?

 

I lost my phone on a ship before from when I left it at the bar.   They checked the footage and couldn’t figure out who picked it up.  I had a couple drinks and left it on the bar after showing some pics on it to a fellow passenger.  My fault completely for not putting it back in my pocket.  I blame no one but myself as I should not have left it out.  So footage is not always the most easy to interpret.

[Big_G]

3 hours ago, ShillyShally said:

The only thing known is there is believed to have been a theft.  Other than that I think we all really know nothing as to what happened, including OP!

 

Careful with that common sense stuff. It might be contagious and what fun would that be.

Edited March 18, 2019 by Big_G

[DUBIDUB2]

At the end of the day that's what insurance is for and it ain't cheap but it's there for us. I've claimed once (travel) in my  55 year lifetime (a $2000 diamond ring fell off in the ocean due to significant weight loss. Lol. Insurance paid it.

 

I travel the globe in hotels most weeks for work, 1000s of flight and 17 cruises. Had a Kindle stolen from the hotel room I left it in.. and well, that's it. 

 

Anything sentimental, either leave at home or trust a safe but if you travel with sentimental stuff there's always a risk during travels so just figure out how sentimental it is because it's also a risk leaving at home.

[Sizzlechest]

26 minutes ago, akcruz said:

 

Every safe we have ever used on a ship you have had to enter a code or swipe a card to LOCK the safe, then use the same method to open it, basically resetting the entry method each time the safe is opened.  If someone on the ship overrode whatever to open it, then how did they close it with the same information the OP used?  If they used any other method than what the OP did they would have known the next time they attempted to open the safe.

 

 

Should we believe you who has no actual knowledge of how it actually works, just your unfounded assumptions or the literal manual to the actual safes used on the ship? Hmmmm... Tough call.

[Balsam12]

2 minutes ago, Sizzlechest said:

 

Should we believe you who has no actual knowledge of how it actually works, just your unfounded assumptions or the literal manual to the actual safes used on the ship? Hmmmm... Tough call.

...and your claim to being the font of knowledge on all things related to safes is watching youtube videos?

[ShillyShally]

27 minutes ago, Big_G said:

 

Careful with that common sense stuff. It might be contagious and what fun would that be.

HAHAHA 🙂  

[Baron Barracuda]

Those who have sailed Anthem know there is no shelf in front of the safe, so on disembarkation morning most folks empty safe contents onto the bed and then pack everything away in a carry-on.  In the rush to exit it is all to easy for an item (like a box of jewelry) to fall to the floor or get covered up by rumpled bed covers.   

 

If there is real suspicion of theft believe hallway cameras allow security to identify every person who entered and exited the cabin during the cruise.  Unsure how long they keep the tapes though.

[chengkp75]

21 minutes ago, Sizzlechest said:

 

Should we believe you who has no actual knowledge of how it actually works, just your unfounded assumptions or the literal manual to the actual safes used on the ship? Hmmmm... Tough call.

And as someone who has maintained safes like this on ships (not this exact model), and who can read an operator's manual, while the safe can be opened by any of the means you mention, it cannot be locked again unless one of two things is done:  either the "master key" is used and the "permanent code" is entered to open the safe, and then it can be locked using the permanent code, not the cabin occupant's temporary code.  Or, a "temporary code" is input to lock it.  Either way, the OP would never be able to open the safe again using their "temporary code".  The "temporary code" that the occupant chooses is "reset" every time the safe is opened, by the entry of a code (either the same or different) when locking.  The main facet is that whatever is used to lock the safe is what is needed to open the safe.  Since the OP never mentioned having to have someone come and reset the safe, their "temporary code" was still valid and no one had opened their safe.  Even when opened using the "hard key" (the metal, mechanical key), to close and lock the safe, a "temporary code" must be entered, and this would have to match the OP's code.

[voyager70]

3 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And as someone who has maintained safes like this on ships (not this exact model), and who can read an operator's manual, while the safe can be opened by any of the means you mention, it cannot be locked again unless one of two things is done:  either the "master key" is used and the "permanent code" is entered to open the safe, and then it can be locked using the permanent code, not the cabin occupant's temporary code.  Or, a "temporary code" is input to lock it.  Either way, the OP would never be able to open the safe again using their "temporary code".  The "temporary code" that the occupant chooses is "reset" every time the safe is opened, by the entry of a code (either the same or different) when locking.  The main facet is that whatever is used to lock the safe is what is needed to open the safe.  Since the OP never mentioned having to have someone come and reset the safe, their "temporary code" was still valid and no one had opened their safe.  Even when opened using the "hard key" (the metal, mechanical key), to close and lock the safe, a "temporary code" must be entered, and this would have to match the OP's code.

 

Thank you, chief.  Well explained.

 

[Sizzlechest]

6 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And as someone who has maintained safes like this on ships (not this exact model)

 

 

WARNING: Opinion incoming. Not fact.

 

6 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

and who can read an operator's manual, while the safe can be opened by any of the means you mention, it cannot be locked again unless one of two things is done:  either the "master key" is used and the "permanent code" is entered to open the safe, and then it can be locked using the permanent code, not the cabin occupant's temporary code.  Or, a "temporary code" is input to lock it.  Either way, the OP would never be able to open the safe again using their "temporary code".  The "temporary code" that the occupant chooses is "reset" every time the safe is opened, by the entry of a code (either the same or different) when locking.  The main facet is that whatever is used to lock the safe is what is needed to open the safe.  Since the OP never mentioned having to have someone come and reset the safe, their "temporary code" was still valid and no one had opened their safe.  Even when opened using the "hard key" (the metal, mechanical key), to close and lock the safe, a "temporary code" must be entered, and this would have to match the OP's code.

1

 

Since you say you can "read an operator's model," please copy and paste the part of the manual that states that. We'll wait.

[Sizzlechest]

37 minutes ago, Balsam12 said:

...and your claim to being the font of knowledge on all things related to safes is watching youtube videos?

 

That's a funny way of saying you were wrong.

[Balsam12]

12 minutes ago, Sizzlechest said:

 

That's a funny way of saying you were wrong.

Ummm... I've not questioned anything you've said about the safes. I've not seen the safes used on Anthem, nor am I a locksmith or safe expert.

 

Please clarify what you think I am wrong about?

 

The only knowledge you have claimed is what you have found on the internet.

 

Unless you have some other claim to safe knowledge, you are speculating.

Edited March 18, 2019 by Balsam12

[Balsam12]

Nobody has questioned the fact that some crew members can access the safes in cabins. Anyone with an IQ higher than their shoe size knows this.

 

The question here is whether they did so in the OP's case?

 

I do not believe they did. You can form your own opinion, but the risk for the crew is far more than the possible reward, especially when there are much easier ways they could steal from passengers.

 

The whole concept here is not the security of the safes, but the security of the crew.

 

The are also too many gaps in the OP's story, and, as usual, they have not come back to clarify.

 

I hope their insurance claim comes up with the correct result.

Edited March 18, 2019 by Balsam12

[A&L_Ont]

1 hour ago, JennyB1977 said:

Was the OP wearing the Hope Diamond? I don't doubt that there are dishonest people on the ship. If there are/were not widespread reports of theft, I'd like to know why OP was "targeted". I mean if you're in the Owner's Suite (or similar) and walk around dripping in gems. You make yourself stand out. If the jewelry is not overtly ostentatious, how would someone know it had any value?

 

I am not a criminal and probably don't think like one. I find it hard to fathom that someone would undertake such a caper without knowing an item's value.

 

OP -- I truly hope that your item is found/recovered. 

 

Agreed.  If it was jewelry of great value it should be covered under your home insurance with a separate rider, or its own individual policy. 

 

 

24 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And as someone who has maintained safes like this on ships (not this exact model), and who can read an operator's manual, while the safe can be opened by any of the means you mention, it cannot be locked again unless one of two things is done:  either the "master key" is used and the "permanent code" is entered to open the safe, and then it can be locked using the permanent code, not the cabin occupant's temporary code.  Or, a "temporary code" is input to lock it.  Either way, the OP would never be able to open the safe again using their "temporary code".  The "temporary code" that the occupant chooses is "reset" every time the safe is opened, by the entry of a code (either the same or different) when locking.  The main facet is that whatever is used to lock the safe is what is needed to open the safe.  Since the OP never mentioned having to have someone come and reset the safe, their "temporary code" was still valid and no one had opened their safe.  Even when opened using the "hard key" (the metal, mechanical key), to close and lock the safe, a "temporary code" must be entered, and this would have to match the OP's code.

 

I'll take the Chief's word, no photo needed for me.

[gatour]

2 hours ago, Sizzlechest said:

 

You can open it with the code, the owner key, a master key, OR a physical key. Not a combination of those methods. EITHER of them. Anyone on the ship who knows the code doesn't need any keys to open the safe. Anyone with a key doesn't need the code. Nowhere in the manual does it say the temporary code, which is what the passenger is using, is reset if any other method to gain entry is used. YOU WILL NOT KNOW YOUR SAFE HAS BEEN OPENED BY THE STAFF!

You are wrong.  Page 30 says all codes will be reset if you use the "reset button".

 

The owner/master key method doesn't state if the the temp password is wiped or not.  However, someone above reported that it did when they had to summon security to unlock the safe.

 

Plus some of the methods require a physical key, which while not foolproof are mostly likely controlled by security.

 

One requires them to remove a sticker and insert a key into a lock release.  This is probably the failsafe, short of having the safe drilled.

 

Not saying the OP wasn't robbed by someone, but I have my doubts.

[RDC1]

2 hours ago, klfhngr said:

When I missed the ship on the Allure, the cabin steward and security were in my room OPENING THE SAFE to see if I left my passport or credit cards in there. My wife walked in when they were going thru the stuff. So yes, they can open the safes.

Yes security can open the safes.  Policy requires at least two people must be present.  Steward on the other hand cannot open the safe.

 

Whenever someone misses the boat standard practices is to retrieve passport from safe and give to port agent.

[chengkp75]

43 minutes ago, Sizzlechest said:

 

WARNING: Opinion incoming. Not fact.

 

 

Since you say you can "read an operator's model," please copy and paste the part of the manual that states that. We'll wait.

Sorry, don't seem to be able to copy and paste, but if I give a page number, I hope you'll be able to follow along.  On page 28, under "Temporary Code" is says that for "Lockbox closure" you must enter a temporary code, and this same code will open the safe.  Further down the page under "Permanent Code" it tells how to open the safe with a combination of the Master Key (or Owners Key) and the Permanent Code, the door will open.  To close, simply press #.  This locks the safe, but since the door was opened (using the permanent code), the temporary code is erased, as it is every time the safe is opened.  These are the only two methods mentioned anywhere on how to close and lock the safe.  I don't disagree with your little video that people can open the safe, but even that video does not try to relock the safe, nor does it show that the temporary code is not reset.  But, carry on with your conspiracy theories, have a nice day.

[Sitzmark]

5 minutes ago, gatour said:

 

The owner/master key method doesn't state if the the temp password is wiped or not.  However, someone above reported that it did when they had to summon security to unlock the safe.

The first hand knowledge I mentioned in an earlier post involved having security come to open a safe for us.  It took quite a while due to the limited number of people with the ability to open it.  Once it was opened no further action was required on the part of security, the codes were automatically wiped.

[Sizzlechest]

51 minutes ago, Sitzmark said:

The first hand knowledge I mentioned in an earlier post involved having security come to open a safe for us.  It took quite a while due to the limited number of people with the ability to open it.  Once it was opened no further action was required on the part of security, the codes were automatically wiped.

 

The only part of the manual that mentions codes being wiped was if the reset button is pressed. This raises yet another issue. What if the safe is reset? The master code is also reset. Does that imply that the master code is now a default? I won't make that claim as certain, but it's a possibility that resetting the safe before the customer enters and sets their temporary code is a backdoor into the safe.

[ShillyShally]

1 minute ago, Sizzlechest said:

 

The only part of the manual that mentions codes being wiped was if the reset button is pressed. This raises yet another issue. What if the safe is reset? The master code is also reset. Does that imply that the master code is now a default? I won't make that claim as certain, but it's a possibility that resetting the safe before the customer enters and sets their temporary code is a backdoor into the safe.

It may be, as could all the possible scenarios being laid out from the manual excerpts, none of us know what happened on the Anthem for this passenger and I don't recall anyone proving a safe can be opened without impacting the code set by the passenger.  Most reports I've seen say they had to choose a new code after whomever needed to open the safe.

 

We don't all believe theft wasn't possible, but given the OP's story it doesn't seem probable. 

[ShillyShally]

2 hours ago, Big_G said:

 

Careful with that common sense stuff. It might be contagious and what fun would that be.

I should have heeded this warning, I seem to not be able to resist getting sucked back in 🙂

[ShillyShally]

1 hour ago, A&L_Ont said:

 

Agreed.  If it was jewelry of great value it should be covered under your home insurance with a separate rider, or its own individual policy. 

 

 

 

I'll take the Chief's word, no photo needed for me.

Agreed, thank you Chief!

[parrotfeathers]

I wouldn't want to be a cabin steward with the thought that I could be accused of theft.  I would think even an accusation would make the higher ups reconsider another contract?  And how could the person even attempt to a defense?

 

[ShillyShally]

7 minutes ago, parrotfeathers said:

I wouldn't want to be a cabin steward with the thought that I could be accused of theft.  I would think even an accusation would make the higher ups reconsider another contract?  And how could the person even attempt to a defense?

 

Agreed, and yet so many are quick to immediately blame their cabin stewards before ever considering it could be something or someone else (especially a travel mate).

 

That said, if my cabin steward on my Indy cruise a week ago was looking to steal we sure drove him crazy with our unpredictable comings/goings to our cabins 🙂  I know he struggled to figure out when to service our cabin - I felt for him but we didn't know, we played every day by ear and rarely by regular cruise schedules 🙂