New Pricing Bundles or Non-Refundable: Your Thoughts!

[Luvcrusn]

20 minutes ago, cantstopingcruising said:

Thankfully, we are booked for next year's cruises.

 

I don't want to book any non-refundable cruises and the refundable are substantially more expensive. They are much more that the value of the perks.

 

If this continues into the future, my Celebrity days may come to an end.

DH  and I booked a cruise for next year back in February.  It was the first (and maybe last) time we booked a nonrefundable. We immediately bought insurance to protect ourselves. The cruise was planned to celebrate a very special (at this point they're all special)  milestone anniversary.  We booked the nonrefundable through our TA, who at the time was offering all 4 perks, and 10% back in OBC (on Reflection  not Edge). Because of the special anniversary combined with the deal, it was too good to pass up despite the nonrefundable deposit,  but we won't come across the same circumstances again most likely. The new pricing has seen the cruise fare jump $1500 (for 2) with 2 less perks and the TA is no longer offering 10% back in OBC.  That makes the difference in the cruise fare and  included "perks" and OBC

almost $3000 more now than 2 months ago. We've cruised X for many years  and have monitored pricing regularly  (read that "almost daily ")  and have never before seen such a huge jump in fare this far out from the sailing date.  If this trend continues, which it looks like it very well may, we along with many others, may be departing X for other vacation options. Happily the world is full of options. 

[Ken the cruiser]

10 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

That's weird. It displayed the options earlier today, but not this evening. Maybe X is updating some software. I'll try again tomorrow and let you know if they show up then.

Well, I guess the web site giveth, then taketh away as it now only shows that the Go Best perks are all included when you book a suite, even on a TA. But, I do know what our PCC told us and the fake bookings looked like yesterday afternoon. Who knows what evil lurks. Best thing to do is ask your PCC/TA the next time you decide to book a cruise if you want the nonrefundable option to see if it even exists anymore for a suite.

[Alsmez]

Given the economics, I'm not surprised that Celebrity is trying to reduce the number of non-refundable deposits. As with airfares or even things like subscription services, non-refundable deposits are really like money in the bank on X's balance sheet - looks great to investors, stabilizes their cash flow, etc. They are obviously trying to ease customers into it by bundling refundable deposits with "perks" that they have already determined are desirable for a large portion of their customer base. Unfortunately, the pricing of the bundled perks really only makes sense if a customer likes to travel with the drink package, as the cost seems to nearly always exceed the retail price of any two of the other perks.

 

We like having the drink package but would normally also consider a fare that didn't include it, especially if we were looking at a very port-intensive cruise. However, flexibility is VERY important to us and we probably would not consider booking a non-refundable fare unless we were booking very close to sail date (which we normally do not - we prefer to book a bit in advance). It doesn't bother us to be "forced" to buy perks to get a refundable fare, but I do understand why it might bother others, especially non-drinkers. Those who are willing to pay the perks-included price also have the option of cancelling and rebooking a non-refundable fare once they are more sure of their travel plans - a loophole I'm sure Celebrity is hoping people will not exploit!

[Ken the cruiser]

2 hours ago, ak1004 said:

 On many lines the internet now is $10/day, not to mention lines like Oceania where it's free.

However, IMHO on lines such as HAL and Oceania where the internet costs are either cheaper or included in the fare, just remember you get what you pay for. We have always had great internet service on a X cruise whereas on HAL or O, it's been pretty weak especially if you want to access the internet in your cabin.

[bkbarrym]

2 hours ago, Luvcrusn said:

DH  and I booked a cruise for next year back in February.  It was the first (and maybe last) time we booked a nonrefundable. We immediately bought insurance to protect ourselves. The cruise was planned to celebrate a very special (at this point they're all special)  milestone anniversary.  We booked the nonrefundable through our TA, who at the time was offering all 4 perks, and 10% back in OBC (on Reflection  not Edge). Because of the special anniversary combined with the deal, it was too good to pass up despite the nonrefundable deposit,  but we won't come across the same circumstances again most likely. The new pricing has seen the cruise fare jump $1500 (for 2) with 2 less perks and the TA is no longer offering 10% back in OBC.  That makes the difference in the cruise fare and  included "perks" and OBC

almost $3000 more now than 2 months ago. We've cruised X for many years  and have monitored pricing regularly  (read that "almost daily ")  and have never before seen such a huge jump in fare this far out from the sailing date.  If this trend continues, which it looks like it very well may, we along with many others, may be departing X for other vacation options. Happily the world is full of options. 

We too regularly monitor pricing, particularly with booked cruises in the hopper. For our upcoming cruise (past final payment) and one that we have booked for next year the prices increased (like for like) from immediately before to after the pricing reconfiguration April 4. Based on my cases it would seem that X used this rejigging to mask what appears to be a price increase. We have been loyal to Celebrity and would prefer to continue so, however, I feel that with the changes to the pricing options, reaction to Edgification etc. X  has woken a sleeping bear.  We and it seems from reading this board, other X loyalists are likely more open to researching vacation alternatives

Edited April 10, 2019 by bkbarrym

[ak1004]

19 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

However, IMHO on lines such as HAL and Oceania where the internet costs are either cheaper or included in the fare, just remember you get what you pay for. We have always had great internet service on a X cruise whereas on HAL or O, it's been pretty weak especially if you want to access the internet in your cabin.

 

Not necessarily. On our two sailings on X the internet was pretty bad. Here is my experience on the Equinox from two years ago:

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com.au/topic/2344643-high-speed-internet-false-advertising/

 

Of course it could be different on some other ships, and my last sailing on X was over 2 years, so things could change.

 

Our best internet was last year on Regal Princess (I believe we got over 10mbps speed), and we paid $10/day. On Oceania it was not great (around 1-2mbps) but still better than X.

 

So in this case, you don't always get what you pay for.

[Luvcrusn]

1 hour ago, Alsmez said:

Given the economics, I'm not surprised that Celebrity is trying to reduce the number of non-refundable deposits. As with airfares or even things like subscription services, non-refundable deposits are really like money in the bank on X's balance sheet - looks great to investors, stabilizes their cash flow, etc. They are obviously trying to ease customers into it by bundling refundable deposits with "perks" that they have already determined are desirable for a large portion of their customer base. Unfortunately, the pricing of the bundled perks really only makes sense if a customer likes to travel with the drink package, as the cost seems to nearly always exceed the retail price of any two of the other perks.

 

We like having the drink package but would normally also consider a fare that didn't include it, especially if we were looking at a very port-intensive cruise. However, flexibility is VERY important to us and we probably would not consider booking a non-refundable fare unless we were booking very close to sail date (which we normally do not - we prefer to book a bit in advance). It doesn't bother us to be "forced" to buy perks to get a refundable fare, but I do understand why it might bother others, especially non-drinkers. Those who are willing to pay the perks-included price also have the option of cancelling and rebooking a non-refundable fare once they are more sure of their travel plans - a loophole I'm sure Celebrity is hoping people will not exploit!

Did you mean that Celebrity is trying to increase the number of non-refundable deposits? Otherwise your point above makes no sense.

[Alsmez]

3 minutes ago, Luvcrusn said:

Did you mean that Celebrity is trying to increase the number of non-refundable deposits? Otherwise your point above makes no sense.

 

YES - DUH!!!!!! Thank you for catching that - my fingers and my brain are obviously not working in tandem today!

[Luvcrusn]

28 minutes ago, bkbarrym said:

We too regularly monitor pricing, particularly with booked cruises in the hopper. For our upcoming cruise (past final payment) and one that we have booked for next year the prices increased (like for like) from immediately before to after the pricing reconfiguration April 4. Based on my cases it would seem that X used this rejigging to mask what appears to be a price increase. We have been loyal to Celebrity and would prefer to continue so, however, I feel that with the changes to the pricing options, reaction to Edgification etc. X  has woken a sleeping bear.  We and it seems from reading this board, other X loyalists are likely more open to researching vacation alternatives

Sadly, I agree.  We will be shopping other cruising options thoroughly when our vacations include a cruise. For the past 20 years, except for a few cruises chosen for a particular itinerary not offered by X, when deciding to cruise we automatically went to X. While we did shop the X cruise to find the best deal, we were shopping TAs and not cruise lines. Now that X has shown a drastically increased pricing structure we may , as will others, find  a new favorite.

[Ken the cruiser]

8 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

Not necessarily. On our two sailings on X the internet was pretty bad. Here is my experience on the Equinox from two years ago:

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com.au/topic/2344643-high-speed-internet-false-advertising/

 

Of course it could be different on some other ships, and my last sailing on X was over 2 years, so things could change.

 

Our best internet was last year on Regal Princess (I believe we got over 10mbps speed), and we paid $10/day. On Oceania it was not great (around 1-2mbps) but still better than X.

 

So in this case, you don't always get what you pay for.

We were on the Eclipse for 25 days on a Canary Island and TA cruise in Oct 2017 in a C1 and had no issues at all from our cabin. We were just on the Reflection for 21 days in the Caribbean and again had no issues from our cabin.

 

On the other hand we were just on the O Riviera for 45 days in the Med along with a TA back to Miami and from our A3 cabin, we would only be able to maintain connectivity to the nearby router for 5-10 minutes before getting knocked off because there were too many devices trying to bind up to it because every cabin now has unlimited service meaning no one logs off their devices anymore. Besides this when we were on, the response time was very slow unless it was in the middle of the night.

 

As far has HAL goes, you have to go to a public space before you can get a decent internet connect. 

 

However, glad to hear Princess has good service as we have a few booked with them. 

[Purplsmurf]

3 hours ago, cantstopingcruising said:

Thankfully, we are booked for next year's cruises.

 

I don't want to book any non-refundable cruises and the refundable are substantially more expensive. They are much more that the value of the perks.

 

If this continues into the future, my Celebrity days may come to an end.

This is not necessarily true. We recently booked a TA and the pricing is $1000 more than it was before the change, but our 2 perks are worth approximately $2500 so we paid $1k more to get $2500 in perks. Maybe it doesn’t make sense for shorter cruises, I’m not sure since I already have the rest of mine booked for next year, but in the case of a TA we are making out great!

[Ex-Airbalancer]

I like the way they shows base price and the price with 2 choices on the website 

but they should include the taxes and tips into the base price as those have to be paid anyway 

in Canada , taxes must be included in all vacation pricing 

[bEwAbG]

8 minutes ago, Purplsmurf said:

This is not necessarily true. We recently booked a TA and the pricing is $1000 more than it was before the change, but our 2 perks are worth approximately $2500 so we paid $1k more to get $2500 in perks. Maybe it doesn’t make sense for shorter cruises, I’m not sure since I already have the rest of mine booked for next year, but in the case of a TA we are making out great!

 

This is only true if you want the perks, though.  I rarely buy the beverage package, so that perk is not "worth" whatever they're charging for it.

[Purplsmurf]

2 minutes ago, bEwAbG said:

 

This is only true if you want the perks, though.  I rarely buy the beverage package, so that perk is not "worth" whatever they're charging for it.

Right! We always take the beverage package as a perk and in this case, before the pricing changes, we were going to buy it for the second half of the cruise. We will now have it for the entire cruise and also have our tips paid so very well worth it for us.

[Ken the cruiser]

16 minutes ago, Purplsmurf said:

This is not necessarily true. We recently booked a TA and the pricing is $1000 more than it was before the change, but our 2 perks are worth approximately $2500 so we paid $1k more to get $2500 in perks. Maybe it doesn’t make sense for shorter cruises, I’m not sure since I already have the rest of mine booked for next year, but in the case of a TA we are making out great!

Just curious, what 2 perks are worth $2,500?

[Purplsmurf]

1 minute ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Just curious, what 2 perks are worth $2,500?

Beverage package and tips.....it’s a 14 night TA

[Lastdance]

I have an NRD cruise booked for next May, but I booked it because I received all four perks several months ago, then transferred it to the big  box company.   In addition, I booked insurance for my deposit of $900, in order to lock in the pre-existing conditions.  Then I can just add to this as time progresses to final payment.  Actually, this is a first for me with this type of booking, so time will tell...I love my cabin and having all the perks, but life has a way of changing one's plans; however, I am totally okay with this and completely understand how it works.  Yes, I took a chance for the additional two perks.  It is an 11 day cruise in Europe, and then we plan to stay longer in Italy.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Lastdance

[mnocket]

7 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Just curious, what 2 perks are worth $2,500?

 

You can reach $2,500 with just the PBP on  an 18-day TA for 2.  I remember when I booked my first 16-day TA.  I couldn't believe it when I realized that the PBP was going to cost nearly as much as the cruise itself🤑

[Cruise Junky]

1 hour ago, mnocket said:

 

You can reach $2,500 with just the PBP on  an 18-day TA for 2.  I remember when I booked my first 16-day TA.  I couldn't believe it when I realized that the PBP was going to cost nearly as much as the cruise itself🤑

But you don't need to pay that, they go on sale all the time, especially on repo cruises.

[bkbarrym]

2 hours ago, Lastdance said:

I have an NRD cruise booked for next May, but I booked it because I received all four perks several months ago, then transferred it to the big  box company.   In addition, I booked insurance for my deposit of $900, in order to lock in the pre-existing conditions.  Then I can just add to this as time progresses to final payment.  Actually, this is a first for me with this type of booking, so time will tell...I love my cabin and having all the perks, but life has a way of changing one's plans; however, I am totally okay with this and completely understand how it works.  Yes, I took a chance for the additional two perks.  It is an 11 day cruise in Europe, and then we plan to stay longer in Italy.

If you don't mind me asking what was the cost for that insurance and what were the conditions allowed (i.e. standard/ typical conditions or for any reason)?

[Luvcrusn]

We paid $381 for the two of us with an additional $12 to increase each of our medical coverage by $25,000. The cost does vary by age at time of purchase and covers our entire trip for cancellation and interruption for 16 days. Cancellation is for standard reasons, not "just because we don't feel like going," affecting us or our immediate family members. We purchase at time of booking so that we are covered for pre-existing conditions as well. 

[DrKoob]

On 4/5/2019 at 10:09 AM, mnocket said:

I get a kick out of how successful Celebrity has been in getting people to pay for add-ons and still getting people to think of them as "Perks".  In days gone by, Perks were incentives, freebies if you will, that were offered as a promotion to attract new bookings.  Next we saw "Perk" promotions that were often offset by increased prices.  Then Big, Better, Best - pay more and choose your "Perks".  Now Sail Your Way - a repackaging of BBB that opens the door to broader differentiation along the lines of MSC's "Experiences".

 

Maybe it's just semantics, but I think "Perks" stopped being perks when we started paying for them....  when we started paying more to get "free" drinks, they stopped being free and in my mind stopped being perks.

 

They are still perks...just not as great of perks. The difference in the cruise price with an included beverage package is about half of what you would pay for the same beverage package if you bought it separately. For instance this morning I booked a Sail Plus with two perks and one of them was Classic Beverage (the other gratuities). Paid about an additional $600 over the basic price. If I purchase gratuities and the beverage package separately it is almost $1000. Your perk is the $400. 

 

Also, you could go the way NCL does it and offer six "FREE" perks and then charge for all of them or restrict them so heavily that they are worthless. Like "FREE" drink package that costs $150 for gratuities for "FREE" dinners in specialty restaurants or "FREE" internet which is only 150 minutes for one device per stateroom. 

 

But you are right, it's basically just Big, Better, Best with a new name except for the non-refundable part on the bottom pricing. 

 

Jim

[gordylad]

Apart from the pricing going through the roof lets be honest the sailings are not all that exciting.....and entertainment.

Edited April 10, 2019 by gordylad

[cantstopingcruising]

I don't know anything abut drinks packages because we are not such drinkers.  A glass of wine will suffice.

We have a 12 night cruise to  Israel booked and an inside cabin is now CAD$6384 non refundable. The same cabin Refundable with 2 perks ( tips $446 Cad. and $150 US each which today is about 399.50 Cad.) is priced at $7662 CAD, which is $CAD 432.50 for the privilege of being non refundable.

If this 2020 cruise were not already booked, we would not bother to book it at all.

[jagoffee]

15 hours ago, grandgeezer said:

This year, 2019 for a balcony

Those cruises are past the final payment date, so I think there is no refundable deposit.  (Although it is what it says)

The lower rate is an Exciting deal rate and not a nonrefundable rate deal.  At least that is what it says.  The two perk rate is not an exciting deal rate.

 

You will get a better idea of the delta if you check cruises that do not require a full payment when booked.  Like the 2020 version.

 

But I see your point.

Edited April 10, 2019 by jagoffee