Is rumour true that club dining is to be phased out?

[jeanlyon]

and I'm not kidding, there were 10 people standing at the door in their finery on a formal night at 5.10.  50 minutes to stand there.  They must be mad.  And I thought first sitting was 6.30, so why does Freedom start at 6 - ah, I suppose to get rid of a whole group really early.  Another night the queue was so long as 5.20, it was round to the atrium.

[Harry Peterson]

47 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

Well sounds like we should be fine trying to eat at 8pm.  And we will sit down with the others at the table and order at the same time.  We will give it a try on the next cruise.

 

Second sitting seems to have changed with a lot of either empty tables or half full tables.  Also, although we have always had good tables before, this time was awful.  We knew we weren't spending another evening with them!

 

So if I want to eat at 8, we just go to the restaurant and ask to be seated?  And we say we are happy to share.  I have already asked on the ship what happens to the wine order and apart from the first night, you order a bottle and if you don't finish it they give you a slip to ask for it the next night.  Sounds good to me.

As you say, just turn up and say you’d be happy to share. If there’s any delay they’ll give you a pager. You can even stipulate your table size every night. Lunchtimes too.

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, daiB said:

No not what I think what I observe. We have done freedom to try it out. We did not encounter the problems as we still dined fairly late and we would take any table size.

 

But I have seen the queues forming half an hour before the restaurant opened I have talked to people who have had to wait because they could not get a table at 18.30 on a number of occasions. I have read many complaints about freedom dining not giving them the freedom they thought they were going to get. But clearly you think you have so much more experience of P&O so you must be right.

Docco and I clearly have more experience of freedom dining than you Dai, and while I agree that queuing does happen, on our recent Aurora cruise they started about 5;30, there is seldom a problem getting a table at 6:30 if you are prepared to share, but tables for 2 could present a problem.  If on your only freedom experience you always dined late, then you would very rarely have any problems at all.

[Selbourne]

Our first 6 P&O Cruises were club dining. The first 4 were great experiences but after 2 bad ones we switched to freedom and have now done 12 cruises as freedom diners. We wouldn’t swap back. To reassure those who are swapping to freedom, you don’t necessarily need to lose some of the things that you like about club. For example, if you like a particular section of the restaurant or certain waiters, a word to the head waiters can ensure that you dine there regularly, if not every night.

 

Just back from 19 nights on Aurora and for once we decided to stick to a table for 2 each night. We tended to dine late (arriving between around 8.15pm and 8.45pm) and the table that we liked was waiting for us. The waiters often push for the same passengers to be allocated to their sections regularly as it usually results in end of cruise tips from those diners. The waiters rotate every 2 cruises between club and freedom to ensure that tips are balanced, so the savvy ones work hard on their freedom cruises to minimise the ‘tip downtime’.

 

Pagers are often given to those requiring tables for 2 turning up at peak times (around 7pm) when the early birds have yet to exit. If you want a table for 2 later, as we do, we are always seated immediately. If you are happy to share you will almost always be seated immediately, even at the busiest times. 

 

I shall be interested to see what the show times are on Iona when everyone is on Freedom, as we find that 8.30pm and 10.30pm times don’t work for us as they seem to be set to suit club diners. 8.30pm is when we are eating and 10.30pm is often too late for us (we tend to go to bed earlier than most). Ideally, we would like the first show to be at around 7.30pm so that we could watch it and go to dinner afterwards. 

[wowzz]

10 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

Our first 6 P&O Cruises were club dining. The first 4 were great experiences but after 2 bad ones we switched to freedom and have now done 12 cruises as freedom diners. We wouldn’t swap back. To reassure those who are swapping to freedom, you don’t necessarily need to lose some of the things that you like about club. For example, if you like a particular section of the restaurant or certain waiters, a word to the head waiters can ensure that you dine there regularly, if not every night.

 

Just back from 19 nights on Aurora and for once we decided to stick to a table for 2 each night. We tended to dine late (arriving between around 8.15pm and 8.45pm) and the table that we liked was waiting for us. The waiters often push for the same passengers to be allocated to their sections regularly as it usually results in end of cruise tips from those diners. The waiters rotate every 2 cruises between club and freedom to ensure that tips are balanced, so the savvy ones work hard on their freedom cruises to minimise the ‘tip downtime’.

 

Pagers are often given to those requiring tables for 2 turning up at peak times (around 7pm) when the early birds have yet to exit. If you want a table for 2 later, as we do, we are always seated immediately. If you are happy to share you will almost always be seated immediately, even at the busiest times. 

 

I shall be interested to see what the show times are on Iona when everyone is on Freedom, as we find that 8.30pm and 10.30pm times don’t work for us as they seem to be set to suit club diners. 8.30pm is when we are eating and 10.30pm is often too late for us (we tend to go to bed earlier than most). Ideally, we would like the first show to be at around 7.30pm so that we could watch it and go to dinner afterwards. 

I don't understand why the waiters had to rotate. Surely if the autotips were left in place,  there would be no need to tip.

Now that autotips have been removed, I imagine that some people may wish to tip the waiters, but as P&O have said that tips are not  required, I will conform to their guidelines.

[Selbourne]

1 minute ago, wowzz said:

I don't understand why the waiters had to rotate. Surely if the autotips were left in place,  there would be no need to tip.

Now that autotips have been removed, I imagine that some people may wish to tip the waiters, but as P&O have said that tips are not  required, I will conform to their guidelines.

 

Another tipping thread isn’t needed as we are all sick to death of them, but the facts are that waiters are rotated between club and freedom every two cruises as club diners are more likely to tip waiters who have looked after them throughout the whole cruise, more so than freedom where passengers may have lots of different waiters. This may, of course, change once the removal of service charges has settled down, but I suspect not as many passengers will still wish to reward excellent service, even though it is not required, and I’d bet that average tips per waiter will remain much higher in club so they will still need to be rotated. 

[brian1]

17 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

Sort of defeats the whole idea of freedom dining if you pre book a time slot.

But it still gives the "freedom" to book a table for 2 at a time of your choice.Worked well for us on Princess.

[stephen@stoneyard.co.uk]

8 hours ago, Selbourne said:

 

Another tipping thread isn’t needed as we are all sick to death of them, but the facts are that waiters are rotated between club and freedom every two cruises as club diners are more likely to tip waiters who have looked after them throughout the whole cruise, more so than freedom where passengers may have lots of different waiters. This may, of course, change once the removal of service charges has settled down, but I suspect not as many passengers will still wish to reward excellent service, even though it is not required, and I’d bet that average tips per waiter will remain much higher in club so they will still need to be rotated. 

 

That is my view. I am less inclined to tip if I have different waiters every night. I know that is odd because I have received the same service.  I see a tip as a personal thank you. Without a personal relationship I am not so inclined to tip. That is odd because I tip on land in restaurants I only visit once.  

 

I cannot think the waiters in Iona will be very happy if it turns out they get fewer or smaller tips. Particularly if they have transferred from other P&O ships. 

 

Best wishes, Stephen. 

 

[Dermotsgirl]

2 hours ago, stephen@stoneyard.co.uk said:

 

That is my view. I am less inclined to tip if I have different waiters every night. I know that is odd because I have received the same service.  I see a tip as a personal thank you. Without a personal relationship I am not so inclined to tip. That is odd because I tip on land in restaurants I only visit once.  

 

I cannot think the waiters in Iona will be very happy if it turns out they get fewer or smaller tips. Particularly if they have transferred from other P&O ships. 

 

Best wishes, Stephen. 

 

P&O have made it clear that, once the current tipping system is abolished, tips are no longer required or expected.

 

As it will be a no tipping culture by the time Iona comes into service, the freedom only dining will make no difference to the waiter’s income. 

 

[jeanlyon]

Anbody had experience of how the wine ordering works in Freedom?  Does it take ages to order on the first night.  We usually order on the wine line and in Club it's on the table when we arrive.

[wowzz]

2 hours ago, Dermotsgirl said:

P&O have made it clear that, once the current tipping system is abolished, tips are no longer required or expected.

 

As it will be a no tipping culture by the time Iona comes into service, the freedom only dining will make no difference to the waiter’s income. 

 

My thoughts exactly.

[Britboys]

3 hours ago, Dermotsgirl said:

P&O have made it clear that, once the current tipping system is abolished, tips are no longer required or expected.

 

As it will be a no tipping culture by the time Iona comes into service, the freedom only dining will make no difference to the waiter’s income. 

 

 

I tend to agree with Selbourne on this.  Once the automatic tips are abolished by P&O, if I receive particularly good service from (Club Dining) waiters and my cabin attendant, I will give them a tip at the end of the cruise.  If the service is only average, I won't.  I think there will be plenty of people who do that - as well as plenty that don't tip under any circumstances.  Consequently, I think it likely that Club Dining waiters will still get more extra tips than those in Freedom Dining.

[Selbourne]

7 hours ago, Dermotsgirl said:

P&O have made it clear that, once the current tipping system is abolished, tips are no longer required or expected.

 

As it will be a no tipping culture by the time Iona comes into service, the freedom only dining will make no difference to the waiter’s income. 

 

 

You are of course entirely correct that tips are no longer required or expected. However, your second comment would only be correct in so far as Iona is concerned. Many people (especially those who have cruised for years) will still want to tip great service and, as Andrew says, those in Club dining are far more likely to do so. As a result, waiters will still want to be rotated between freedom and club on ships that have both, as they do now.  

[Selbourne]

7 hours ago, jeanlyon said:

Anbody had experience of how the wine ordering works in Freedom?  Does it take ages to order on the first night.  We usually order on the wine line and in Club it's on the table when we arrive.

 

We've never bothered to pre order wine in Freedom Jean. The wine waiters appear fairly quickly once you are seated and we didn’t have any delays on our recent cruise. Part used bottles are stored and returned to whichever table you are next on, exactly the same as club. They give you a ticket and you simply hand it to the next wine waiter. All very simple. 

[jeanlyon]

Perfect, many thanks.

[Dermotsgirl]

Regarding tipping ( I don’t want this to turn into a tipping thread!) 

 

As cruisers, we know that tipping has been part of the culture, and P & O are now making a major cultural shift, by abolishing the requirement for tips.

 

i understand that some are used to tipping, and it may feel a bit awkward not to tip.

 

However, for me, tips are gone, and I won’t even think about it when cruising with P&O 

[NSWP]

On 5/15/2019 at 8:16 AM, wowzz said:

I don't understand why the waiters had to rotate. Surely if the autotips were left in place,  there would be no need to tip.

Now that autotips have been removed, I imagine that some people may wish to tip the waiters, but as P&O have said that tips are not  required, I will conform to their guidelines.

I agree, you have already paid for the auto tips in your base price, I reckon current pricing shows that.   But no doubt cabin/wait staff will be expecting some extra by way of cash in hand.  So early next year I sail on Majestic Princess, Sydney to Singapore - tips included then after some time in Singapore, Arcadia, Singapore to Southampton - tips included in base fare.  Suits me.

Edited May 28, 2019 by NSWP