Exaggerated or Not?

[Bloodgem]

42 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

So parents need to be by their teenagers’ sides at all times to prevent them from being attacked? 

No but parents should teach their kids not to accept anything (drinks; sweets; car rides) from strangers.

  

[Itchy&Scratchy]

On 8/12/2019 at 1:39 PM, mjkacmom said:

9 pm curfew for a 15 year old?!😂

is there anything strange about this curfew? I had it. 

[Itchy&Scratchy]

1 hour ago, mjkacmom said:

So parents need to be by their teenagers’ sides at all times to prevent them from being attacked? 

no, but they need to teach their teenagers (preferably, before they become teenagers and start "knowing better than their parents") not to get drunk with adult strangers. Because you don't know when you will get incapacitated and attacked. Young people think they are invulnerable and untouchable. It's best if their parents teach them to be responsible.

[ed01106]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

If you carefully read the story, the bar was not serving the minor.  The minor got her drinks from men.  On a crowded ship of thousands it is difficult for a handful of security folks to monitor everybody's activities and see who is giving what to whom

 

Hank

They seem to be able to manage the task of making sure that someone who has a drink package doesn’t share with some paying cash.  Shouldn’t be too hard to extend the responsibility to also make sure drinks aren’t purchased for minors.  Plus hundreds of thousands of establishments that serve alcohol and allowed minors on the premises are able to monitor this, and if they fail to do so they lose the privilege of selling alcohol.   

[mjkacmom]

13 minutes ago, Itchy&Scratchy said:

no, but they need to teach their teenagers (preferably, before they become teenagers and start "knowing better than their parents") not to get drunk with adult strangers. Because you don't know when you will get incapacitated and attacked. Young people think they are invulnerable and untouchable. It's best if their parents teach them to be responsible.

You really think that all kids who have been taught the dangers of underaged drinking by their parents don’t do stupid things like drink?! I know some excellent parents who’s great kids have done some really stupid things as teenagers. My friend’s daughter was brought home by the police, drunk, when she was supposed to be at a sleepover, at 14 ( she was grounded the entire summer with the exception of volunteering at the library). My parents were great parents, I still did stupid things, and yes, alcohol was sometimes involved.

 

ETA I’m guessing you don’t have teens? My 5 range in age from 16 - 23, almost all of my friends have teenagers, we talk about these issues all of the time, we discuss these issues with our kids all of the time! Please don’t assume that if you educate your kids the will always follow your advise, because they won’t! They screw up!

Edited August 13, 2019 by mjkacmom

[mjkacmom]

41 minutes ago, Bloodgem said:

No but parents should teach their kids not to accept anything (drinks; sweets; car rides) from strangers.

  

I don’t know of a single parent that doesn’t teach their kids these things, but teens sometimes choose not to listen. My kids are pretty open with s about stuff that goes on, including young teens getting their stomachs pumped. You just pray that your kids listen, and don’t cave to peer pressure.

[Itchy&Scratchy]

7 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

You really think that all kids who have been taught the dangers of underaged drinking by their parents don’t do stupid things like drink?! I know some excellent parents who’s great kids have done some really stupid things as teenagers. My friend’s daughter was brought home by the police, drunk, when she was supposed to be at a sleepover, at 14 ( she was grounded the entire summer with the exception of volunteering at the library). My parents were great parents, I still did stupid things, and yes, alcohol was sometimes involved.

of course, some teens rebel and do stupid crap, but do their parents then sue the hell out of the cruise line (airline, hotel, fraternity, boy scouts, whatever) because they themselves failed their kids? Failed to supervise, failed to make sure the kids were safe, failed to teach them survival skills, etc.?

Edited August 13, 2019 by Itchy&Scratchy

[mjkacmom]

8 minutes ago, Itchy&Scratchy said:

of course, some teens rebel and do stupid crap, but do their parents then sue the hell out of the cruise line (airline, hotel, fraternity, boy scouts, whatever) because they themselves failed their kids? Failed to supervise, failed to make sure the kids were safe, failed to teach them survival skills, etc.?

So, if a parent does everything right, and their kid screws up anyway, they failed? If your child ends up with a needle in his arm in spite of being educated in depth about the dangers of substance abuse (which is possible), its your fault? Where did you go wrong? Because as a very experienced parent, I think you are kidding yourself if you think you can ensure your kid won’t screw up, and even screw up big time. Fortunately, thank God, we’ve had no significant issues here, but I still have 2 more years to go.

 

What if your child was violently raped while you thought he or she was hanging in the teen club, and it could’ve been prevented. Does that fact that he/she was drinking make he/she deserving of it. Were the parents to blame even if they had no idea their child wasn’t where they thought he/she was?  Because I guarantee you that there will be times your child is not where you think your child is, and is doing something they’ve been warned not to do.

[Itchy&Scratchy]

41 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

So, if a parent does everything right, and their kid screws up anyway, they failed? If your child ends up with a needle in his arm in spite of being educated in depth about the dangers of substance abuse (which is possible), its your fault? Where did you go wrong? Because as a very experienced parent, I think you are kidding yourself if you think you can ensure your kid won’t screw up, and even screw up big time. Fortunately, thank God, we’ve had no significant issues here, but I still have 2 more years to go.

 

What if your child was violently raped while you thought he or she was hanging in the teen club, and it could’ve been prevented. Does that fact that he/she was drinking make he/she deserving of it. Were the parents to blame even if they had no idea their child wasn’t where they thought he/she was?  Because I guarantee you that there will be times your child is not where you think your child is, and is doing something they’ve been warned not to do.

if the parents are unaware of what their daughter is doing, why are they blaming the cruise line for not keeping an eye on her? Why aren't the parents doing it? Is it really the cruise line's fault that the kid checked herself out of the teen's club, roamed the ship alone, made some questionable adult "friends", and drank herself silly with them? If the parents are unable to keep tabs on their ONE kid, how is the cruise line going to keep tabs on hundreds of free roaming teenagers?

[ed01106]

19 minutes ago, Itchy&Scratchy said:

if the parents are unaware of what their daughter is doing, why are they blaming the cruise line for not keeping an eye on her? Why aren't the parents doing it? Is it really the cruise line's fault that the kid checked herself out of the teen's club, roamed the ship alone, made some questionable adult "friends", and drank herself silly with them? If the parents are unable to keep tabs on their ONE kid, how is the cruise line going to keep tabs on hundreds of free roaming teenagers?

Because the cruise line providing her with alcohol.  This is not an issue of the cruise line not monitoring the teen, it is a matter of the cruise line not monitoring the behavior of the bartenders.  

[mjkacmom]

17 minutes ago, Itchy&Scratchy said:

if the parents are unaware of what their daughter is doing, why are they blaming the cruise line for not keeping an eye on her? Why aren't the parents doing it? Is it really the cruise line's fault that the kid checked herself out of the teen's club, roamed the ship alone, made some questionable adult "friends", and drank herself silly with them? If the parents are unable to keep tabs on their ONE kid, how is the cruise line going to keep tabs on hundreds of free roaming teenagers?

The bar staff should be aware of what is going on, but it sounds like they are like so many others who don’t want to ruffle feathers, like those not wanting to confront chair hoggers or babies in pools. I can’t imagine no one noticed an obviously intoxicated minor with a bunch of grown men. Our kids have been told that not helping someone in need is the same as hurting them, our sons to never take advantage, but to take them home. Alcohol can cause bad situations, like this, or fights, bartenders should be aware of what is going on, in addition to pouring drinks, just like those on land.

[Itchy&Scratchy]

6 minutes ago, ed01106 said:

Because the cruise line providing her with alcohol.  This is not an issue of the cruise line not monitoring the teen, it is a matter of the cruise line not monitoring the behavior of the bartenders.  

it appears that that the cruise line was providing the alcohol to the adults. Not to her. Bartenders don't have the time or ability to monitor where the alcohol goes after they serve it to the adults.

 

 

 

 

P.S. on the other hand, all sorts of people on the Family cruising board are asking whether they can let a 8-11 yo kids free roam on the ship, and all huff and puff in disbelief when I say that predators cruise too... So, I am keeping an eye on my kid at all times, and he is MY responsibility.

[ed01106]

2 minutes ago, Itchy&Scratchy said:

it appears that that the cruise line was providing the alcohol to the adults. Not to her. Bartenders don't have the time or ability to monitor where the alcohol goes after they serve it to the adults.

 

Total Bull.

 

 1. Hundreds of thousands of establishments in the USA serve alcohol in establishments with minors and manage to prevent that alcohol from getting in the hands of minors.  And if they fail to do so they are fined, if they repeatedly do this they lose the privilege of selling alcohol.

 

2. The cruise line carefully tracks drinks procured by those on a drink package to prevent those drinks from reaching the lips of those paying cash for their drinks. 

 

[mjkacmom]

7 minutes ago, Itchy&Scratchy said:

it appears that that the cruise line was providing the alcohol to the adults. Not to her. Bartenders don't have the time or ability to monitor where the alcohol goes after they serve it to the adults.

 

 

 

 

P.S. on the other hand, all sorts of people on the Family cruising board are asking whether they can let a 8-11 yo kids free roam on the ship, and all huff and puff in disbelief when I say that predators cruise too... So, I am keeping an eye on my kid at all times, and he is MY responsibility.

And that’s good because he’s a young kid (and the fact that he’s an only makes it super easy). Bartenders should be aware of dangerous situations. For example, loud angry voices might indicate a fight is about to break out. You don’t know anything about being a parent to a teen yet.

[ed01106]

19 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

The bar staff should be aware of what is going on, but it sounds like they are like so many others who don’t want to ruffle feathers, like those not wanting to confront chair hoggers or babies in pools. I can’t imagine no one noticed an obviously intoxicated minor with a bunch of grown men. Our kids have been told that not helping someone in need is the same as hurting them, our sons to never take advantage, but to take them home. Alcohol can cause bad situations, like this, or fights, bartenders should be aware of what is going on, in addition to pouring drinks, just like those on land.

Oh, I am sure they noticed her.  

 

When I was 22 and my gf was 20 we noticed a very strong correlation between how well I was tipping and how long it took for a bouncer to come over and tell her to stop drinking from my glass.  Generous enough tips — and they never noticed.  I don’t doubt that occurred here.

[TNcruising02]

Employees are constantly walking around the ship asking people if they want a drink and also picking up used glasses.  It's very hard to believe that they didn't notice a 15 year old girl, surrounded by men, drinking alcohol.  It sure seems like that is something that should have been noticed. Wherever alcohol is served, the employees need to be on the lookout for underage drinking.

[ed01106]

1 minute ago, TNcruising02 said:

Employees are constantly walking around the ship asking people if they want a drink and also picking up used glasses.  It's very hard to believe that they didn't notice a 15 year old girl, surrounded by men, drinking alcohol.  It sure seems like that is something that should have been noticed. Wherever alcohol is served, the employees need to be on the lookout for underage drinking.

One method to help spot this used by most land based establishments to spot this is to use slightly different glasses for alcoholic drinks than nonalcoholic drinks to prevent a rum and coke being swapped for a coke.  

 

Cruise lines use this technique to prevent those on a drink package from sharing with a cash passenger.  Because that matters to them.  But they don’t care if a minor gets drunk as long as the drinks are paid for.  

 

 

[TNcruising02]

1 minute ago, ed01106 said:

One method to help spot this used by most land based establishments to spot this is to use slightly different glasses for alcoholic drinks than nonalcoholic drinks to prevent a rum and coke being swapped for a coke.  

 

Cruise lines use this technique to prevent those on a drink package from sharing with a cash passenger.  Because that matters to them.  But they don’t care if a minor gets drunk as long as the drinks are paid for.  

 

 

That's interesting.  I didn't know they did this.  I could see overlooking certain situations like a couple where one of them might look slightly underage.  It's just hard to comprehend them overlooking at 15 year old surrounded by men.  There was no way that was going to end well.

[ed01106]

2 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

That's interesting.  I didn't know they did this.  I could see overlooking certain situations like a couple where one of them might look slightly underage.  It's just hard to comprehend them overlooking at 15 year old surrounded by men.  There was no way that was going to end well.

Look at glasses next time.  Some places the difference is very subtle others extremely obvious.

 

Cruise line didn’t care.  They aren’t going to lose liquor license.   They aren’t getting sued on the dram act for someone killed by DUI.  And if she gets so drunk she falls overboard— they aren’t liable under assumption of risk. 

[calliopecruiser]

4 hours ago, mjkacmom said:

4 hours ago, Bloodgem said:

 

I don’t know of a single parent that doesn’t teach their kids these things, but teens sometimes choose not to listen.

 

Sometimes?  I am guessing it's more often than sometimes.  Or, maybe it should be "some teens choose not to listen", not some times. 

 

And from my experience as a teenager, the more rules the teens had, the less likely they were to listen and the more creative they were at getting around those rules.

 

[Toofarfromthesea]

6 hours ago, *Miss G* said:

 

The main problem is absolutely NOT the lack of supervision by the parents. 

 

Well argued.  Not.

[Toofarfromthesea]

4 hours ago, mjkacmom said:

I don’t know of a single parent that doesn’t teach their kids these things, but teens sometimes choose not to listen. My kids are pretty open with s about stuff that goes on, including young teens getting their stomachs pumped. You just pray that your kids listen, and don’t cave to peer pressure.

 

Kids don't listen, they watch.  You can't lead them with talk, you need to walk the walk before you talk the talk. My dad, who taught junior high for over 30 years, always said that kids this age are ignorant, but they aren't stupid.  My own 15+ years of teaching just confirmed that, for me.  They watch and quickly figure out what the priorities are.  And sadly, in these days of outside babycare, childcare, after school care they quickly understand that parents put a higher priority on maintaining their lifestyle unabated than being a significant part of their lives.  

[mjkacmom]

22 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Kids don't listen, they watch.  You can't lead them with talk, you need to walk the walk before you talk the talk. My dad, who taught junior high for over 30 years, always said that kids this age are ignorant, but they aren't stupid.  My own 15+ years of teaching just confirmed that, for me.  They watch and quickly figure out what the priorities are.  And sadly, in these days of outside babycare, childcare, after school care they quickly understand that parents put a higher priority on maintaining their lifestyle unabated than being a significant part of their lives.  

Are you even a parent? I’m a SAHM, and have been for 23 years, almost all of my working friends would love nothing more than be a SAHM, but due to finances, had to go back. Every single mom in my multiple of friend groups puts their focus on their kids, 100%. The difference between moms today and my mom’s generation is that moms today are WAY more invested in their kids (to a fault).

[*Miss G*]

1 hour ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Well argued.  Not.

 

Careful.  The evidence of effectiveness of your “15 years of teaching” is showing.

[ilikeanswers]

Of course parents leave their kids unsupervised on cruise ships because the cruise line told them they could. Most cruise line advertising is dependent on the idea that you can bring your whole family and they can all do separate things. The parents can do adult things and take a break from being parents while the kids will be looked after by the ship with activities provided. 

 

The cruise line encourages parents to separate from their kids (after all if you are busy looking after your kids you aren't paying for those extra activities). They create the expectation that the cruise ship is like a big daycare centre and the kids will be safe. 

 

As long as cruise lines keep running that narrative then absolutely they should be liable when that narrative unravels, otherwise don't create the expectation of safety in the first place.