Azura passengers stranded?

[Harry Peterson]

1 hour ago, Sam34jolly said:

 

At 2pm the Monaco police chief contacted the Azura and suggested that the passengers be transferred to Villefrance and the ship and tenders meet them there. But there were already 2 cruises at Villefrance and coaches could be arranged to get us to the train station. Also the captain expected the swell to diminish.

Later it's believed that the ship rang around the hotels for any room availability but there wasn't any vacancies. It wasn't till late in the evening, after the supermarkets had closed did the captain give up hope of getting us back to the ship.

The Prime Minister was involved and they implemented their emergency/disaster plan by transferring us to the stadium.

I’m sure most of that is accurately reported.

 

But, come on, let’s be serious, do you really believe, or have any evidence for the statement that the Prime Minister was involved?

 

Though, to be fair, if he had been his track record indicates that things would have become very substantially worse than they already were!

[terrierjohn]

4 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

I’m sure most of that is accurately reported.

 

But, come on, let’s be serious, do you really believe, or have any evidence for the statement that the Prime Minister was involved?

 

Though, to be fair, if he had been his track record indicates that things would have become very substantially worse than they already were!

I was assuming it was the Monaco PM involved not Boris, although he would probably have proposed rigging a zip line to get the passengers back on board.🤣

[Sam34jolly]

36 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

I’m sure most of that is accurately reported.

 

But, come on, let’s be serious, do you really believe, or have any evidence for the statement that the Prime Minister of Monacowas involved?

 

Though, to be fair, if he had been his track record indicates that things would have become very substantially worse than they already were!

 

[Officeboy]

On 10/9/2019 at 7:06 PM, Midland Red said:

Anyone know how P&O dealt with compensation, etc?

I understand there was:

1 day’s cost per person credited back

£50 per person credited to obc

Hamper delivered to home address

Did these apply to all passengers, or only those marooned overnight onshore?

P&O have a very poor record of compensation you only have to look at the treatment of people who booked Adonia and like me Oriana P&O didn't follow their contract  which states that if a cruise is cancelled one can rebook at the same cost or better than the one you paid. they sold the ship, cancelled the cruises, and offered £75 if you  rebooked at 'today's' prices a £500 increase or your money back in my case

[Son of Anarchy]

Very interesting reading.  A contingency plan that wasn't viable, followed by an inability to arrange for payment for goods at a local supermarket which could have assisted those stranded ashore.

 

We're due to go to Monaco on Azura next year, and although its not the yacht show or the GP, it is the first day of the classic Grand Prix.  Invoice states possible tender.  Hopefully P & O will put the hindsight  glasses on and try for Villefranche.

[daiB]

1 hour ago, Son of Anarchy said:

Very interesting reading.  A contingency plan that wasn't viable, followed by an inability to arrange for payment for goods at a local supermarket which could have assisted those stranded ashore.

 

We're due to go to Monaco on Azura next year, and although its not the yacht show or the GP, it is the first day of the classic Grand Prix.  Invoice states possible tender.  Hopefully P & O will put the hindsight  glasses on and try for Villefranche.

Not sure which contingency plan was not viable. Do you mean the one where enough beds in hotels should be available. Well that is just rubbish and can’t exist as it makes no sense. The following are tender ports for P&O and many other cruise lines and could not meet that requirement. Geiranger, Kirkwall, Stornaway, Isafjordur. O can we drop this myth.

[Eglesbrech]

While this situation was not fun for those involved to put it into perspective how many of us have ever been stranded overnight like this.

 

In all the cruises I have done (Stopped counting at 100 😀) I have never been stuck on shore. I may have had very long tender queues in the sun, rain or cold and been annoyed by that fact but I have always got back onboard. I would guess this is not a frequent issue and I’m sure we would not want those new to cruising reading these boards to think that it happens a lot.

 

So other than the contributors to this thread who had this recent issue on Azura, how many of you have actually ever been stuck overnight?

[tring]

On 10/11/2019 at 7:29 PM, NoFlyGuy said:

Some on here claim P&O/Carnival failed in their duty to passengers. I disagree.

 

Would be interesting to know what a non Carnival cruise line would have done differently given the circumstances.

Apart from the question of whether going to Monaco during the boat festival was a sensible idea, this could have happened to any cruise ship.

 

The sheer number of passengers and crew stranded meant the result was always going to be problematic and not ideal. The idea that hundreds of hotels rooms can be found at short notice at a typical tender port  is ridiculous - Last year we tendered at Rovinj in Croatia, a really nice but fairly small town, doubt they could have accommodated the numbers involved if a similar incident had happened there.

 

 

The big hotels in Rovinj are out of town but within walking distance and other tourist resorts are nearby as well.  There will also be oodles of hotels on Guernsey not that far away.

Edited October 12, 2019 by tring

[brian1]

18 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

I was assuming it was the Monaco PM involved not Boris, although he would probably have proposed rigging a zip line to get the passengers back on board.🤣

Don't underestimate a zipline.My favourite piece of kit.

[stephen@stoneyard.co.uk]

This situation caused a significant distress to passengers and crew. It seems to me that P&O could reasonably be questioned  about

 

The decision to schedule Monaco as a port when it was likely to be a tender port with a reputation for bad weather. 
 

The decision to tender on the day depending on the local weather forecast. 
 

The safety of allowing passengers to tender who may not have complete d the step test. 

The  safety of the crew member who fell in the sea. That could have been a real tragedy. 

 

The decision to tender some passengers back to the ship. Uncomfortable seems an understatement. 
 

The failure to look after stranded passengers adequately. Food, water, accommodation, information, shade, toilets and money may have been lacking. Also expecting passenger to stand for an extended period. Presumable P&O had a port agent, Monaco is well developed and connected to the rest of Europe. 

The level of compensation offered to affected passengers. Some feel this is less than generous. It is entirely under the control of Carnival UK, not dependant on the weather, not dependant on local facilities in Monaco and does not have to be paid In an emergency. It is the one part of this that is entirely in their control. 
 

Best wishes, Stephen. 

 

 

 

[vsgnorwich]

Thank you Stephen and others for your pertinent comments. It was a horrendous experience

[Eglesbrech]

9 minutes ago, vsgnorwich said:

Thank you Stephen and others for your pertinent comments. It was a horrendous experience

Looks most uncomfortable, one picture we won’t be seeing on P&Os marketing.

 

Can I ask what was the “tone” like on the ship and then later if you have contacted P&O back at home. Were they apologetic about it onboard / back home or defending the situation?
 

 

[vsgnorwich]

17 hours ago, Eglesbrech said:

While this situation was not fun for those involved to put it into perspective how many of us have ever been stranded overnight like this.

 

In all the cruises I have done (Stopped counting at 100 😀) I have never been stuck on shore. I may have had very long tender queues in the sun, rain or cold and been annoyed by that fact but I have always got back onboard. I would guess this is not a frequent issue and I’m sure we would not want those new to cruising reading these boards to think that it happens a lot.

 

So other than the contributors to this thread who had this recent issue on Azura, how many of you have actually ever been stuck overnight?

This incident on Azura affected more than 1100 passengers and crew. I agree this is perhaps and thankfully an unusual occurrence. However, it should not detract from the fact that as with other, thankfully, one off / rare events or numerous near fatal / life changing events, that they are not avoidable, badly handled or that very important lessons MUST be learnt from them

[Eglesbrech]

11 minutes ago, vsgnorwich said:

This incident on Azura affected more than 1100 passengers and crew. I agree this is perhaps and thankfully an unusual occurrence. However, it should not detract from the fact that as with other, thankfully, one off / rare events or numerous near fatal / life changing events, that they are not avoidable, badly handled or that very important lessons MUST be learnt from them

Absolutely. I did not in any way mean to imply that what happened to you and others was in any way acceptable, lessons should indeed be learned. I just didn’t want any new cruisers to think that it happens a lot.

 

P&O were already aware of issues at this tender port. The last time I was there we were stuck in a queue for hours in the sun with no shade and no water. Staff from Viking  cruises took pity on us and handed out water. Some of the older guests really struggled. We did eventually get back onboard but it was unpleasant, so P&O already know that it is an issue and worse when the Grand Prix or boat show are in town.
 

They should have learned lessons from that incident but clearly did not which begs the question why.

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2019 by Eglesbrech

[stephen@stoneyard.co.uk]

27 minutes ago, vsgnorwich said:

Thank you Stephen and others for your pertinent comments. It was a horrendous experience

A horrendous experience. To think I worry about if I get one cabin service or two in a day. It really puts it in perspective. You should not have had that experience but I do hope your complaint to P&O is resolved satisfactorily. 

 

Edited October 13, 2019 by stephen@stoneyard.co.uk

[vsgnorwich]

Can I ask please when was your incident and which ship?

Re new cruisers I see your point, however we feel all cruisers, whether new or regulars, on ALL cruise line tenders, should have the information and potential risks, so that they can make an informed decision and prepare adequately e.g. taking meds / supplies for 2 days and whether they want to take the risk. Hundreds of our fellow passengers were extremely worried, as they did not have their medication for the evening, nighttime or following morning. If they hadn't managed to eventually get the tenders secured back on the ship it could have been even longer

[vsgnorwich]

10 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

Can I ask what was the “tone” like on the ship and then later if you have contacted P&O back at home. Were they apologetic about it onboard / back home or defending the situation?

At the Q&A session with some of the affected passengers and in the letter that was placed in the cabin of those affected, the Captain "wished to apologise for the disruption you suffered during our call in Monte Carlo". At the meeting they defended the decision to anchor and tender, by the weather and sea forecast being good. As detailed in the review, the Captain also volunteered that 3 years ago he had warned P&O / Carnival not to tender during the yacht show and also 2 weeks before, they had tried to secure tender facilities at Villefranche, but were unable to do so. 

The tone on the ship following the event was mixed, there were many passengers who were extremely angry and tearful (some reporting recurrent nightmares and extreme emotional distress); others who were very accepting; some a mixture of both; there were many unaffected passengers who had no idea of what we had gone through and were horrified at the stories and photo evidence; others that were cross at the press coverage, either thinking it was exaggerated and others thinking it was underplayed. There were also a large number of affected passengers who took many days to recover from the ordeal either due to sleep deprivation, fatigue, musculoskeletal problems or emotional distress, so had most of the 2nd week of their cruise wiped out.

Our evaluation of these varied reactions leads us to believe that it depended on: 

1. The physical condition of passengers prior to the event

2. Whether this was your first cruise or not

3. The exact individual experience e.g. if you had been one of the excursion returners at 5pm who had been told by the Intercontinental man not to join the queue, but to seek shelter and facilities in the commercial centre, or if you had queued from 1.30; if you been one of the unlucky people in the 2 horrendous priority tenders and suffered a traumatic hour being thrown around in a tender in the pitch black, with  those around you screaming, vomiting and having panic attacks, whilst being trapped by all the wheelchairs, scooters and buggies in the exits; if you had managed to get a blanket, stretcher, camp bed, food or had to lay on the cold, concrete floor on top of a flattened biscuit box etc etc.

 

Re back home, as detailed in the review we received a hamper, with a compliments slip stating "a warm welcome home from all to enjoy from P&O cruises". There was no accompanying apology. The response to date to our complaint letter thanked us for our email and "I have taken note of your comments and have passed them on to our guest relations team, who will respond within 28 days.....I would also like to thank you for taking the time to share your feedback". I personally feel, that given the severe nature of this event and the hundreds of affected passengers, that P&O would already have allocated dedicated staff to address the complaints that would be coming in on an urgent basis, rather than the standard acknowledgement and response time.

 

[Eglesbrech]

44 minutes ago, vsgnorwich said:

Can I ask please when was your incident and which ship?

Re new cruisers I see your point, however we feel all cruisers, whether new or regulars, on ALL cruise line tenders, should have the information and potential risks, so that they can make an informed decision and prepare adequately e.g. taking meds / supplies for 2 days and whether they want to take the risk. Hundreds of our fellow passengers were extremely worried, as they did not have their medication for the evening, nighttime or following morning. If they hadn't managed to eventually get the tenders secured back on the ship it could have been even longer

14 April 2016 and we have never booked a cruise with this port included again.

 

In our case we were never offered either explanation or apology. It was not bad weather. The ship was however at anchor quite a distance out and the tenders seemed to take forever. At  one point they just stopped completely.

 

(My husband has just reminded me that a couple of times the tenders just stopped was to allow private yachts to manoeuvre but at other times nonapparent reason)
 

We actually went back into town for a drink when we first saw the que but when we came back it was even worse and out in the open on a very sunny day. Luckily I had carried a hat, sunscreen, water etc but people in the que were getting badly burned.

Nothing at all like your horrible experience but they could still have learned some lessons.

Edited October 13, 2019 by Eglesbrech
Add in re private yacht

[Harry Peterson]

4 minutes ago, vsgnorwich said:

At the Q&A session with some of the affected passengers and in the letter that was placed in the cabin of those affected, the Captain "wished to apologise for the disruption you suffered during our call in Monte Carlo". At the meeting they defended the decision to anchor and tender, by the weather and sea forecast being good. As detailed in the review, the Captain also volunteered that 3 years ago he had warned P&O / Carnival not to tender during the yacht show and also 2 weeks before, they had tried to secure tender facilities at Villefranche, but were unable to do so. 

The tone on the ship following the event was mixed, there were many passengers who were extremely angry and tearful (some reporting recurrent nightmares and extreme emotional distress); others who were very accepting; some a mixture of both; there were many unaffected passengers who had no idea of what we had gone through and were horrified at the stories and photo evidence; others that were cross at the press coverage, either thinking it was exaggerated and others thinking it was underplayed. There were also a large number of affected passengers who took many days to recover from the ordeal either due to sleep deprivation, fatigue, musculoskeletal problems or emotional distress, so had most of the 2nd week of their cruise wiped out.

Our evaluation of these varied reactions leads us to believe that it depended on: 

1. The physical condition of passengers prior to the event

2. Whether this was your first cruise or not

3. The exact individual experience e.g. if you had been one of the excursion returners at 5pm who had been told by the Intercontinental man not to join the queue, but to seek shelter and facilities in the commercial centre, or if you had queued from 1.30; if you been one of the unlucky people in the 2 horrendous priority tenders and suffered a traumatic hour being thrown around in a tender in the pitch black, with  those around you screaming, vomiting and having panic attacks, whilst being trapped by all the wheelchairs, scooters and buggies in the exits; if you had managed to get a blanket, stretcher, camp bed, food or had to lay on the cold, concrete floor on top of a flattened biscuit box etc etc.

 

Re back home, as detailed in the review we received a hamper, with a compliments slip stating "a warm welcome home from all to enjoy from P&O cruises". There was no accompanying apology. The response to date to our complaint letter thanked us for our email and "I have taken note of your comments and have passed them on to our guest relations team, who will respond within 28 days.....I would also like to thank you for taking the time to share your feedback". I personally feel, that given the severe nature of this event and the hundreds of affected passengers, that P&O would already have allocated dedicated staff to address the complaints that would be coming in on an urgent basis, rather than the standard acknowledgement and response time.

 

That’s a very useful and interesting post.

 

I think you’ll find that the company will deal with genuine complaints very differently, according to circumstances (perfectly reasonable) and according to how assiduous they perceive the complainant is likely to be in pursuing it.

 

That’s just the way they operate. It keeps their costs down, but enables them to buy off someone who they feel likely to cause them problems, possibly via publicity or legal action.

 

Can’t help thinking though that a more open and generous approach would more than repay the cost, particularly in a situation like this where I really do think they’re on very shaky legal grounds for defending what happened. Not the weather, of course, but the lack of forward planning and quite possibly the absence of an effective risk management process.

[CarlaMarie]

What concerns me alot, and I am sure many of you have also seen it at tender ports, is the amount of individuals who cannot complete the step test and yet expect to still go on the tender and expect the crew to assist.

 

In any port if you have individuals who cannot do the test and require assistance onto the tender, it not only puts extra pressure on the crew but also can start to cause even more hold ups. In rare events such as those that occurred in Monaco, this can put others at risk. 

 

We all know when we have a tender port or a potential tender, likewise we all know about the step test, so I hope in future that passengers do take more responsibility and think about the bigger picture. 

[eddie11]

It might even be worth P&O sending this as a “tick to confirm you have read and understood” with bookings, like they do now with ?fancy dress or smoking?

Would help onboard staff say “Sorry, but No” to those failing the step test

[kruzseeka]

2 hours ago, stephen@stoneyard.co.uk said:

This situation caused a significant distress to passengers and crew. It seems to me that P&O could reasonably be questioned  about

 

 

A very reasoned post.

And the to go back further re questions to be asked, you have to question the itinerary planning.  Given the Boat Show and apparently well known impact on the infrastructure , was it sensible to schedule a stop in Monaco that weekend?   

 

1 hour ago, vsgnorwich said:

This incident on Azura affected more than 1100 passengers and crew. I agree this is perhaps and thankfully an unusual occurrence. However, it should not detract from the fact that as with other, thankfully, one off / rare events or numerous near fatal / life changing events, that they are not avoidable, badly handled or that very important lessons MUST be learnt from them

 

And this is what we all want for P&O to learn from the experience to avoid the distress which many passengers suffered.  

 

Can I just say thank you to the posters on here who have written in some detail about their personal experiences, especially vsgnorwich.  The reports have been factual, lacking in hyperbole and simply highlighting what happened and written in very measured tones.  Thank you - I for one am pleased to get non-sensationalised version aka media coverage as my source of information and send my best wishes to you all in terms of future cruises and hopefully that (all) cruise lines pause for thought and ensure the most stringent planning/risk assessment are in place for all cruises in the future.

[tring]

39 minutes ago, CarlaMarie said:

 

We all know when we have a tender port or a potential tender, likewise we all know about the step test, so I hope in future that passengers do take more responsibility and think about the bigger picture. 

 

Thinking about it, we have not tendered from a P&O ship in recent years.  Can you please explain 'the step test'?  Is it something they watch you do before they let you go to the tender, or just that they expect people to be able to manage independently of help, which I have known on other cruise lines (e.g. Fred).  I was always under the impression there were restrictions about who can/cannot be allowed to tender and also feel that people should be able to manage independently for safety reasons and I would not feel safe if a cruise line allowed otherwise.  Tender ports (or potential tender ports) are marked on itineraries, so people can make their decision of whether to go on a cruise in the knowledge of that, regarding their own abilities.

 

I have a particular concern re this as we are poised to book a P&O cruise with three tender ports when the new cruises are released.

 

I realise this would not have made a lot (if any) difference to the situation with Azura and find that whole situation totally unnecessary for various reasons, which have been mentioned here.  We have done a lot of cruises and would be happy to accept that sea conditions affect the ability to dock or tender.

 

I would also like to thank posters who had experience of the situation, especially vsgnorwich and wish them well in recovery and also dealings with P&O.

 

Edited October 13, 2019 by tring

[vsgnorwich]

Completely agree with CarlaMarie.  Every cabin was given the clear P&O statement regarding tendering, including "you must have independent mobility. By that we mean you must be able to negotiate the steps, the gap and height difference unaided.....and demonstrate this ability via a mobility test.....over a distance of 45cm/18 inches......there will be crew members there to guide and steady you as you embark, but they cannot support, carry or lift guests....."

There was a lot more pertinent detail on the statement, which both passengers, crew and officers ignored.  This put all the other passengers and crew at severe risk.  I am disabled myself and a part time wheelchair user, but would never selfishly put other peoples' health and lives at risk. I was extremely offended by terrierjohn's post #114 "in P&O's case I might be biased because as a wheelchair using couple we can never use a tender on a P&O ship, but on RCI and Celebrity we would also have been ashore if the weather had changed, because they do go the extra mile to provide a good experience to all their passengers"

especially as these comments were made after admitting that they had not read the review, which detailed the issues of the non compliance of the steptest by passengers that could not stand / walk unaided being carried onto / off tenders and tender exits blocked by wheelchairs and scooters etc.

Personally I think it is unreasonable to expect any staff from any cruise line to risk their own health, spine and safety by lifting passengers onto tenders. Lastly P&O do not prevent wheelchair users boarding the tender "providing you have enough independent mobility to be able to get out of your wheelchair / mobility scooter and embark on foot.......you or your travelling companion are responsible for assembling and disassembling your wheelchair / mobility scooter".   

[vsgnorwich]

Re Tring's question of the steptest what was meant to happen I have attached the relevant P&O document, which seems perfectly appropriate, but was not adhered to.