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Darned "Jones Act" messing up our plans......

Qcruise

By Qcruise,
in Holland America Line

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Qcruise

Qcruise

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So I kept hearing on these boards as I asked about a "back to back" we were thinking about next April from the Koningsdam 4 day San Diego to Vancouver then over to the Oosterdam overnight to Seattle,  that we had better ask HAL if we could do that.  I called this week to find out that yes....the "Jones Act" would prohibit such a plan.  I guess if the Oosterdam left the next day with one night staying in Vancouver we could do it.  I don't understand it but it would have taken care of our transportation back to Seattle where flights are cheaper and easier to get home and we could visit our kids.  So now it's two nights at our timeshare in Vancouver with accompanying meals and entertainment added costs and flights out of Vancouver to LAX instead of direct into Long Beach or Orange County .....but, hey we're on vacation so we'll roll with it.......there are worse problems to have......:)

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Qcruise

Qcruise

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4 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

Its not the Jones Act, its the PSVA...easy to remember...the "P" stands for "Passenger". Jones Act is about cargo.

OK well thanks for the clarification,  but either way we're not jumping aboard the Oosterdam that day.....looking forward to trying out HAL.

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20 minutes ago, Qcruise said:

So I kept hearing on these boards as I asked about a "back to back" we were thinking about next April from the Koningsdam 4 day San Diego to Vancouver then over to the Oosterdam overnight to Seattle,  that we had better ask HAL if we could do that.  I called this week to find out that yes....the "Jones Act" would prohibit such a plan.  I guess if the Oosterdam left the next day with one night staying in Vancouver we could do it.  I don't understand it but it would have taken care of our transportation back to Seattle where flights are cheaper and easier to get home and we could visit our kids.  So now it's two nights at our timeshare in Vancouver with accompanying meals and entertainment added costs and flights out of Vancouver to LAX instead of direct into Long Beach or Orange County .....but, hey we're on vacation so we'll roll with it.......there are worse problems to have......:)

Call again.  If the two cruises are on different ships, it's certainly legal to do them.

 

The PVSA only applies to B2B cruises on the same ship that would make the total cruise be from one US port to another.

 

Since you're departing from San Diego to Vancouver on one ship, and moving to a different ship for the Vancouver to Seattle cruise, it's totally allowable.

 

 

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knittinggirl

knittinggirl

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We've done this approach several times in different ports.  For the trip to Vancouver, we've stayed in the Pan Pacific.  It's next door to the cruise port.  The porters get your bags out of your hotel room, and they appear on the ship.

 

For it to be legal w/ PSVA on the same ship, you'd need to visit a distant foreign port.

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4 minutes ago, knittinggirl said:

We're on the Eurodam FLL via Panama Canal to Vancouver, then Seattle.  I wonder if weather causes Columbia to get cancelled.  Will they kick us off the ship in Vancouver to comply with the PSVA?

Typically, if there are extenuating circumstances, they will waiver any violations.

 

What sort of weather are they expecting in Columbia that you think it will cancel the stop?

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knittinggirl

knittinggirl

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9 minutes ago, Shmoo here said:

Typically, if there are extenuating circumstances, they will waiver any violations.

 

What sort of weather are they expecting in Columbia that you think it will cancel the stop?

It's a hypothetical question.  It's just that we lost two ports on our recent Voyage of the Vikings.  Fortunately, that cruise didn't have any problem with the PSVA.   We started and ended in the same port.

 

Princess had engine trouble for a round trip Hawaii from California, and lost most of Hawaii.  Still they had to stop in Ensenada.  I would have preferred replacing Ensenada with a port in Hawaii.

Edited by knittinggirl
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6 minutes ago, knittinggirl said:

It's a hypothetical question.  It's just that we lost two ports on our recent Voyage of the Vikings.  Fortunately, that cruise didn't have any problem with the PSVA.   We started and ended in the same port.

 

Princess had engine trouble for a round trip Hawaii from California, and lost most of Hawaii.  Still they had to stop in Ensenada.  I would have preferred replacing Ensenada with a port in Hawaii.

Well, Voyage of the Vikings is mostly northern Atlantic, right?  More weather issues there at this time of year.

 

As to the Ensenada stop, they have to stop at a foreign port, so I would doubt they could substitute that one.

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knittinggirl

knittinggirl

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1 minute ago, Shmoo here said:

Well, Voyage of the Vikings is mostly northern Atlantic, right?  More weather issues there at this time of year.

 

As to the Ensenada stop, they have to stop at a foreign port, so I would doubt they could substitute that one.

But Pride of America circles Hawaii never visiting a foreign port.  But I hear they have a US crew.

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chengkp75

chengkp75

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55 minutes ago, knittinggirl said:

But Pride of America circles Hawaii never visiting a foreign port.  But I hear they have a US crew.

Yes, and since the POA is US flag (as well as US crew) it is "PVSA compliant" and can make coastwise voyages without the need for a foreign port.

 

For the OP, the information you received from HAL is 100% incorrect, since by taking two ships, you are on two voyages, regardless of whether they disembark/embark on the same day.  PVSA applies only to a ship, not a cruise line, so each ship's voyage is legal under the PVSA, and you are combining two ships, so your plans are completely legal.  Kick this to a supervisor.

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CruiserBruce

CruiserBruce

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2 minutes ago, knittinggirl said:

But Pride of America circles Hawaii never visiting a foreign port.  But I hear they have a US crew.

Pride of America is a US flagged ship...entirely different from virtually all  other cruise ships. They meet all requirements that foreign flagged ships don't.

 

If your ship misses Colombia (no 'u' for the South American country) exemptions would most likely be granted. Aruba also meets the "distant foreign ports" rule. 

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norwega

norwega

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1 hour ago, Qcruise said:

So I kept hearing on these boards as I asked about a "back to back" we were thinking about next April from the Koningsdam 4 day San Diego to Vancouver then over to the Oosterdam overnight to Seattle,  that we had better ask HAL if we could do that.  I called this week to find out that yes....the "Jones Act" would prohibit such a plan.  I guess if the Oosterdam left the next day with one night staying in Vancouver we could do it.  I don't understand it but it would have taken care of our transportation back to Seattle where flights are cheaper and easier to get home and we could visit our kids.  So now it's two nights at our timeshare in Vancouver with accompanying meals and entertainment added costs and flights out of Vancouver to LAX instead of direct into Long Beach or Orange County .....but, hey we're on vacation so we'll roll with it.......there are worse problems to have......:)

Are there other lines that do the one night?  We took Eurodam Seattle to Vancouver then got on Princess and did west coast ending in LA

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Qcruise

Qcruise

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Well,  thanks to all of you I called again and spoke with Amy at HAL who informed me that because we're going from one ship to another we are fine and can book the Oosterdam.   I'm kind of surprised that a rep from HAL gave us bad information especially as they would send a customer away from booking a cruise.

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Just now, Qcruise said:

Well,  thanks to all of you I called again and spoke with Amy at HAL who informed me that because we're going from one ship to another we are fine and can book the Oosterdam.   I'm kind of surprised that a rep from HAL gave us bad information especially as they would send a customer away from booking a cruise.

If it's just one of the people who answer the phone, it's not rare that they would be mis-informed.

 

 

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sail7seas

sail7seas

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7 hours ago, Qcruise said:

OK well thanks for the clarification,  but either way we're not jumping aboard the Oosterdam that day.....looking forward to trying out HAL.

 

4 hours ago, RuthC said:

Oh, don't ever be surprised if a HAL rep gives you bad information. It happens all the time. 

 

4 hours ago, RuthC said:

Oh, don't ever be surprised if a HAL rep gives you bad information. It happens all the time. 

YES,  sadly, so true

 

 

 

 

Jones Act, PVS A

 

 

 

We are so lucky  to have our laptops and ,  tablets,   phones ......computers to use for easy, easy, easy research

 

 

 

Google knows just  about everything

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by sail7seas
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DAllenTCY

DAllenTCY

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This dialog has come up often....and the end result has been consistent over recent years on CC.

 

You cannot sail from one US port to another US port......doesn't matter two ships.....nor even two cruise lines same day.


What matters is that you must spend overnight in Canada between the two voyages.

 

Your Canadian immigration form will need to be completed within 24 hrs of your departure from San Diego and either collected in the terminal or onboard at the Guest Services desk.

 

Holland America will not risk you denied boarding on the second leg.

 

 

David

 

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