What does the future of cruising look like?

[clo]

4 minutes ago, deadzone1003 said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didier_Raoult

 

Does his history shows that he is a charlatan?  You may disagreed with him, but to call him a charlatan needs alot more evidence from you.  

 

 

 

I would say anyone who put his name on 3000 papers IN A YEAR that he didn't write and that the people who did write them didn't have the qualifications...well, that qualifies for me.

char·la·tan

/ˈSHärlədən,ˈSHärlətn/

Learn to pronounce

 

noun

 

1. a person falsely claiming to have a special knowledge or skill; a fraud.

Edited April 2, 2020 by clo

[deadzone1003]

8 minutes ago, clo said:

I would say anyone who put his name on 3000 papers IN A YEAR that he didn't write and that the people who did write them didn't have the qualifications...well, that qualifies for me.

char·la·tan

/ˈSHärlədən,ˈSHärlətn/

Learn to pronounce

 

noun

 

1. a person falsely claiming to have a special knowledge or skill; a fraud.

Where did it say that he wrote 3000 papers in a year?  It did say his laboratory has 200 employess with 86 researchers who write between 250 to 350 papers a year.  I'm pretty sure their names are on the papers as well as his name.  That's the advantage of being the boss in that type of set-up.  When you are rated one of the top specialists in communicable diseases in the world, one should listen to what he has to say.

[clo]

3 minutes ago, deadzone1003 said:

Where did it say that he wrote 3000 papers in a year?  It did say his laboratory has 200 employess with 86 researchers who write between 250 to 350 papers a year.  I'm pretty sure their names are on the papers as well as his name.  That's the advantage of being the boss in that type of set-up.  When you are rated one of the top specialists in communicable diseases in the world, one should listen to what he has to say.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/03/didier-raoult-hydroxychloroquine-plaquenil.html

[CintiPam]

Groundhog Day seems to have taken over this thread! 😁
 

Or as Yogi Berra reputedly said: it’s deja vu all over again!

Edited April 2, 2020 by CintiPam

[pinotlover]

1 hour ago, susiesan said:

Do you really think there are enough anti vaxxers to support a cruise line? Not likely.

Absolutely not! Purely tongue in cheek. The cruise lines will essentially be forced, by their prospective cruisers,  to enforce standards. If they don’t, we’ll test the theory on how many antivaxers there are.

 

On other Forums, with out the absolute cheerleaders here, this issue is a slam dunk on requiring vaccinations when developed. The various cruise line cheerleaders on this Forum only represent a small number of over all cruiser opinion’s on this topic.

 

Not saying that any Forum holds any advantage over another, just saying that any cruise line that chooses, of its own will , to honor antivaxer’s rights over others will face financial obstacles in the future. Self isolation and social distancing alone are already breeding intolerance. 
 

Are there 600+ cruisers, enough to fill a R ship, that are unable or unwilling to vaccinate so to take a cruise together? I guess the market place may test that theory. Maybe they’ll otherwise  be looking at even smaller ships to accommodate them. 

[deadzone1003]

49 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

Absolutely not! Purely tongue in cheek. The cruise lines will essentially be forced, by their prospective cruisers,  to enforce standards. If they don’t, we’ll test the theory on how many antivaxers there are.

 

On other Forums, with out the absolute cheerleaders here, this issue is a slam dunk on requiring vaccinations when developed. The various cruise line cheerleaders on this Forum only represent a small number of over all cruiser opinion’s on this topic.

 

Not saying that any Forum holds any advantage over another, just saying that any cruise line that chooses, of its own will , to honor antivaxer’s rights over others will face financial obstacles in the future. Self isolation and social distancing alone are already breeding intolerance. 
 

Are there 600+ cruisers, enough to fill a R ship, that are unable or unwilling to vaccinate so to take a cruise together? I guess the market place may test that theory. Maybe they’ll otherwise  be looking at even smaller ships to accommodate them. 

It will not be the cruiseline or even the passengers demanding it, but the destinations requiring it.  I guess anti-vaxxers could go on a cruise but they would not be able to visit any ports, basically a cruise to nowhere.

[Shawnino]

The whole thing is just Darwinism at work.

The clever are going to listen to the established science and largely survive.

The hicks and yokels are going to gravitate to the Yuge Idea of the Moment that someone has a gut feeling about, and suffer disproportionately.

[pinotlover]

8 hours ago, deadzone1003 said:

It will not be the cruiseline or even the passengers demanding it, but the destinations requiring it.  I guess anti-vaxxers could go on a cruise but they would not be able to visit any ports, basically a cruise to nowhere.

So you likewise envision a health record inspection, at every port, for those wanting to get off the ship. Otherwise, how would a country guarantee that the antivaxers stayed on the ship. 
 

Personally, I believe, if a foreign cruise, antivaxers wouldn’t make it through immigrations at the airport.

[ORV]

Ive missed all the antivaxers here you're talking about. Who are they again? 

[pinotlover]

10 minutes ago, ORV said:

Ive missed all the antivaxers here you're talking about. Who are they again? 

They are here. A few have reported it. Plus here represents a very small slice of cruisers. Some of the US school districts report up to 20% of their students claim exemptions from required vaccinations. This is most prevalent in affluent suburban areas, not in poorer inner city areas. Those kid’s parents aren’t being immunized either.

 

What happens on Carnival, Disney, NCL, and other mass lines will have ramifications from authorities as to what happens on all cruise lines. Princess has gotten a huge wake up call!

[LHT28]

I am curious what vaccines  will you require on your cruise line?

[deadzone1003]

5 hours ago, pinotlover said:

So you likewise envision a health record inspection, at every port, for those wanting to get off the ship. Otherwise, how would a country guarantee that the antivaxers stayed on the ship. 
 

Personally, I believe, if a foreign cruise, antivaxers wouldn’t make it through immigrations at the airport.

Right now, I can't even envision what this system would be.  The only thing that I could see developing is that foreign destinations requiring proof of vaccine provided that a vaccine could be developed.  Passengers may not care if other passengers are vaccinated or not as they are already protected by the vaccine, but they would care if the ports would not let anyone visit their port without everyone being vaccinated.  A system may be as simple as when you get vaccinated, your name (that you use in your passport), your birthdate, the date of vaccination, as well as from whom you received the vaccination that gets sent to a master file where other countries can check on it.  The anti-vaxxers could force the cruise lines to let them on the ship if they depart from a US port, but the cruise line is allowed to not let the anti-vaxxers onto their ship if destinations requires this vaccination, sort of like a visa requirement.  If you don't have the proper visas, the cruise line may denied boarding to you.  Everything is out the window if no vaccine could be developed.  Remember, the cruise industry is not alone.  The airlines will have similiar problems.  They will probably be the first to offer some kind of solution.  

[deadzone1003]

9 hours ago, Shawnino said:

The whole thing is just Darwinism at work.

The clever are going to listen to the established science and largely survive.

The hicks and yokels are going to gravitate to the Yuge Idea of the Moment that someone has a gut feeling about, and suffer disproportionately.

From the CDC, here are your theraputic options:

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/therapeutic-options.html

 

There is one more, prayer, but I don't think it is effective.

[deadzone1003]

Here is a worldwide survey of physicians who are treating the Wuhan virus.

 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/2/hydroxychloroquine-rated-most-effective-therapy-do/

 

Number one treatment was analgesics which was probably Tylenol or equivalent.  Number two was azithromycin.  Number three was Hydroxychloroquine. (Wonder if number 4 was Chloroquine).

 

Analgesics is not an FDA-approved treatment for the Wuhan virus.  I suspect it is for those under 60 who do not have underlying conditions, but for the pain and fever caused by the virus which will be the case for the majority of patients.

 

While most countries in the world have cardiac problems as the leading underlying problem relating to the Wuhan virus.  USA unfortunately has Diabetic, Pre-Diabetic, and Obesity towards the top for underlying conditions.  New Orleans has twice the death rate as New York because of these 3 underlying conditions.  USA has alot more younger patients who died at a higher rate than any other nation.  Again, we have a higher incident of those 3 underlying conditions than other nations among all our citizens.  Guess what?  most cruisers probably have these same problems but at an even higher rate.  What is worst the disease appears to go through you at a faster rate if you are diabetic or pre-diabetic.  Being diabetic compromises your immune system (something that surprised me when I first learn of it).  With the virus already suppressing the immune system, in this case a weakened immune system, it does make sense that it will go through you like a hot knife through butter.  If you have these conditions and have the symptoms of the virus, it is imperative that you get treated as early as possible.  The drugs simply do not work after a certain point because your disease will be creating another problem which cannot be solved by these drugs.

 

[bbtondo]

I keep wondering why I haven't seen or heard anyone discussing smoking.  I would think that this would be a very big underlying condition.  All these public service announcements on TV showing disfigured smokers, dying smokers, etc. I would be interested in seeing how many people that died from corona were/are smokers.

 

My mother is in assisted living where there are corona cases. It's scary to say the least.  What she's most mad about is that the only people who get to go outside are smokers.  

 

Will cruise lines ask that question on their "health questionnaire" in the future?

[deadzone1003]

The smokers are usually part of the group with the underlying respiratory problems.  Italy and China has good percentage of people with that underlying problem.  USA started in the 60's to discourage its citizens from smoking, so it is not as great a problem as other countries.

 

There should be a distinction between people dying of the Wuhan virus and dying because of one of their underlying conditions.  If you are going to die from the Wuhan virus without any underlying conditions, I can only surmise that it is most likely because your lungs has turned into cement and you ended up on a ventilator,  If you have a heart condition and you get the Wuhan virus, you go into the hospital, you get treated, but you die of a heart attack - your death is classified as dying from the Wuhan virus with that underlying condition.  I wonder how many of the elderly had died because of their underlying conditions.

[4Lakes Lady]

Deadzone1003: why do you insist on calling the corona virus the Wuhan virus?
Diseases are about biology- not geography. This reinforces negative stereotypes of Asian Americans.
JMHO


Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[clo]

13 hours ago, deadzone1003 said:

Here is a worldwide survey of physicians who are treating the Wuhan virus.

 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/2/hydroxychloroquine-rated-most-effective-therapy-do/

 

Number one treatment was analgesics which was probably Tylenol or equivalent.  Number two was azithromycin.  Number three was Hydroxychloroquine. (Wonder if number 4 was Chloroquine).

 

Analgesics is not an FDA-approved treatment for the Wuhan virus.  I suspect it is for those under 60 who do not have underlying conditions, but for the pain and fever caused by the virus which will be the case for the majority of patients.

 

While most countries in the world have cardiac problems as the leading underlying problem relating to the Wuhan virus.  USA unfortunately has Diabetic, Pre-Diabetic, and Obesity towards the top for underlying conditions.  New Orleans has twice the death rate as New York because of these 3 underlying conditions.  USA has alot more younger patients who died at a higher rate than any other nation.  Again, we have a higher incident of those 3 underlying conditions than other nations among all our citizens.  Guess what?  most cruisers probably have these same problems but at an even higher rate.  What is worst the disease appears to go through you at a faster rate if you are diabetic or pre-diabetic.  Being diabetic compromises your immune system (something that surprised me when I first learn of it).  With the virus already suppressing the immune system, in this case a weakened immune system, it does make sense that it will go through you like a hot knife through butter.  If you have these conditions and have the symptoms of the virus, it is imperative that you get treated as early as possible.  The drugs simply do not work after a certain point because your disease will be creating another problem which cannot be solved by these drugs.

 

I'm curious how you know all of this that present as facts. No links to reputable and verifiable citations?

[WaterView2]

There used to exist (still have mine) a yellow immunization booklet to record vaccinations. This was brought on international travel, and often contained stamps as well as signatures from health providers of vaccinations. It should be possible to create a digital version today if the various authorities cooperate. Something like this would greatly assist in cruising without having to provide complete medical histories.

[clo]

42 minutes ago, WaterView2 said:

There used to exist (still have mine) a yellow immunization booklet to record vaccinations. This was brought on international travel, and often contained stamps as well as signatures from health providers of vaccinations. It should be possible to create a digital version today if the various authorities cooperate. Something like this would greatly assist in cruising without having to provide complete medical histories.

So they don't issue those any more? We got ours prior to going to Africa in '08.

[ORV]

54 minutes ago, clo said:

I'm curious how you know all of this that present as facts. No links to reputable and verifiable citations?

Fox News? 

[pinotlover]

40 minutes ago, WaterView2 said:

There used to exist (still have mine) a yellow immunization booklet to record vaccinations. This was brought on international travel, and often contained stamps as well as signatures from health providers of vaccinations. It should be possible to create a digital version today if the various authorities cooperate. Something like this would greatly assist in cruising without having to provide complete medical histories.

I still have my yellow immunization record that I use to keep all my vaccinations up to date. Last updated in 2018. Taking it on a cruise, or any travel, would be easier than carrying a Kindle! Not a big deal!

 

There has been one point mentioned by deadzone1003 that has been locally verified. If you have Coronavirus, yet died of a drug overdose, you are still categorized as a Coronavirus casualty. So in a year, or so, when statistics on causes of death in 2020 appear, everything from heart disease, cancer, COPD, drug overdoses, etc. will be skewed. Everyone just died of Coronavirus! 

[LHT28]

1 hour ago, WaterView2 said:

There used to exist (still have mine) a yellow immunization booklet to record vaccinations.

 I have one  or similar chart 

My Doctor puts in the date/type  of the jab  I get

I carry it when on vacation

[DrHemlock]

1 hour ago, clo said:

I'm curious how you know all of this that present as facts. No links to reputable and verifiable citations?

Would you consider Reuters to be a reputable source regarding the links between obesity, diabetes and Corona susceptibility?  (If they're not reputable, then who is? Alex Jones?)  https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-new-orleans/why-is-new-orleans-coronavirus-death-rate-seven-times-new-yorks-obesity-is-a-factor-idUSKBN21K1B0

Edited April 3, 2020 by DrHemlock

[susiesan]

2 hours ago, deadzone1003 said:

 

There should be a distinction between people dying of the Wuhan virus and dying because of one of their underlying conditions.  If you are going to die from the Wuhan virus without any underlying conditions, I can only surmise that it is most likely because your lungs has turned into cement and you ended up on a ventilator,  If you have a heart condition and you get the Wuhan virus, you go into the hospital, you get treated, but you die of a heart attack - your death is classified as dying from the Wuhan virus with that underlying condition.  I wonder how many of the elderly had died because of their underlying conditions.

deadzone: I agree with you on the number of deaths from cover 19 being overcounted. Can you cite me a link to an article about this? I can only find one from the Economist and it is behind a paywall. I told my husband this and he doesn't believe it without a reference.