Are our cruising days over? (merged topics re: health and age restrictions)

[TYinPalmSprings]

47 minutes ago, Justalone said:

Agree with you.  For the time being, at least until a vaccine is developed, tested, and safe for the public.   Especially since you are in a high risk group.  Your age, plus underlying health issue, diabetes. I would heed the warnings from CDC, NIH/Dr. Fauci, and U.S. State Department.  And especially to avoid cruises.     Plus if implemented, your Dr. cannot sign off on the Fit to Travel certificate.  FCC advantage to the cruise lines for obvious reasons.

When it is more safe, you may be able to cruise again in the future.

Good luck, and safe travels (just no cruises for now).🙏🙏

JMO

 

If the cruise line  creates a requirement for travel after the fact, and that already paid for customer cannot fulfill the new requirement, then the cruise line should be honest and respectable and refund the money. Issuing a future cruise credit with an expiration date with no assurance that they will ever change their existing rule, or resolution based on other assumptions is something approaching theft. We can thank the Cruise Line International Association, whose members include: NCL, RCCL, Princess, Carnival and just about all the other cruise lines. This organization proposed this new rule to the government and are implementing it. Kelly Craighead is the CEO of their organization. Their website is www.cruising.org.  I recommend we all approach her with our concern

[WmFCoyote]

I do not believe that Option 1 is available as the cruise leaves on May 16th, 6 days after the program ends. Princess is in effect canceling the cruise if they go through with this and the best I can possibly do is get a 100% Future Cruise credit. I have not been offered the option to receive any money back, never mind any bonus

[Thrak]

40 minutes ago, WmFCoyote said:

I do not believe that Option 1 is available as the cruise leaves on May 16th, 6 days after the program ends. Princess is in effect canceling the cruise if they go through with this and the best I can possibly do is get a 100% Future Cruise credit. I have not been offered the option to receive any money back, never mind any bonus

 

I "think" they may revise the eligible dates for the refund proposal. I'd wait a bit. If you *are* offered credit/refund I would seriously consider option 2. I think 100% refund plus 100% FCC sounds much better. I would hate to be enticed by the "shiny" 225% FCC only to find that you are now "too old to cruise". I don't know your age but, for many, that is a real possibility.

[Justalone]

1 hour ago, WmFCoyote said:

All this is well and good but PCL remedy is to provide a Future Cruise Credit with an expiration date. What happens if there is no cure for the Crono Virus and the diabetes does not go away before that time? PCL is not offering me a refund based on anything I can control. A FCC with an expiration date with PCL determining how suitable it is for me to cruise is not acceptable.

 

1 hour ago, Thrak said:

 

If I had a paid-in-full cruise cancelled I would take the second option where I would get 100% of my money back plus a 100% FCC. The 225% FCC seems to me to be more of a "sparkly thing" to attract people's attention so they will take the "better" option that might not really be of any real value to them. How lame to take the huge FCC option and then find out you are now going to be "too old to cruise".

Wouldn’t that make FCC basically worthless if you are no longer able to cruise, or you cannot find a suitable itinerary?  Or you decide not to cruise in the future /deadline to use FCC?   Or the cruise line either drastically reduces the number of sailings, or the cruise line goes bankrupt?

Isn’t FCC just a clever way for cruise lines to keep customers on the hook to continue cruising with them?

Edited March 14, 2020 by Justalone

[DebbieMacG]

These restrictions won’t last forever, at the moment, Covid 19 is new and there’s no vaccine but they will develop one and people will also start to build up immunity to it like they have with the flu. In time it will become another “type” of flu. At the moment a very large number of people have it all at once, medical services are over stretched and these measures are brought in to stop it spreading too quickly, it’s all very new territory.

 

The article that was linked says

 

 "The President's objective is for us to make cruise lines safer, even as we work with the cruise lines to ensure that -- that no one in our particularly vulnerable population is -- is going out on a cruise in the near future”

 

Cruiselines are trying to protect those will not protect themselves, some people will not take advice not to cruise, (I’m not talking about anyone in particular) perhaps because they don’t wish to miss that trip of a lifetime but if you have an underlying health issue, that may make Covid 19 cause you severe problems, whether you are young or old then you shouldn’t cruise at the moment (most cruises are cancelled anyway) but in the future when things become more “normal” you will be able to cruise again and use the future cruise credit. 

 

If however people aren’t happy with FCC because you don’t think you will cruise again then if you should be able to get a refund, if this isn’t possible then perhaps an insurance company would step in, as the FCC is worthless in this instance. If offered the choice of cash or FCC then it would be better in these circumstances to take the cash.

Edited March 14, 2020 by DebbieMacG

[mevs904]

We are in our late 60’s and early 70’s and are disheartened by this proposed new policy.  We’re active and have no serious chronic health conditions and enjoy traveling on cruises and our beloved Rick Steves Tours (which are quite active).  While I am sure that we wouldn’t have any difficulty obtaining a certificate from our physicians I’m not sure if we will want to.  I have great empathy for the people who have been battling cancer and then go on a cruise with their families to celebrate the end of their chemo.  I also have sympathy for the grandparents who might not be able to cruise with their families.  Just look at the demographics on the Princess ships.  This will affect many passengers.

     Not sure if this a temporary reaction to the current global pandemic or something that will remain permanent.  I just read that Norwegian has already adopted this policy and that it comes after discussions with the White House and Vice-President, probably in exchange for the support of the current administration.

Does anyone know if Disney will be following this policy?  It’s actually our favorite cruise line.

[caribill]

The CLIA proposed this to the government to prove they are doing something (anything!) to prevent what happened on the Diamond and the Grand. It does not matter that this would not prevent that type of event in the future, but it "proves" the cruise lines are not ignoring the virus problem.

 

It is stated that if you cannot present the certificate you will be denied boarding and get a refund of your cruise cost.

 

It does not say you will get a refund if your doctor will not sign the certificate. Will you need to go to the embarkation port to be denied boarding in order to get a refund then?

[pully8]

The wording is interesting.  SEVERE  chronic conditions and they have included diabetes.

wonder how they define SEVERE.

Many in the age group post 70 would have a chronic condition including diabetes, however most maybe well managed and controlled.

Would be helpful to have an expert opinion.

Denying everyone over 70 in this way seems an over reach.

Many well under that age including children have diabetes and other conditions that are not well controlled or managed, no restrictions on them?  . 

Ageism is wrong. 

[TYinPalmSprings]

27 minutes ago, pully8 said:

The wording is interesting.  SEVERE  chronic conditions and they have included diabetes.

wonder how they define SEVERE.

Many in the age group post 70 would have a chronic condition including diabetes, however most maybe well managed and controlled.

Would be helpful to have an expert opinion.

Denying everyone over 70 in this way seems an over reach.

Many well under that age including children have diabetes and other conditions that are not well controlled or managed, no restrictions on them?  . 

Ageism is wrong. 

Yes, It's purely discrimination. Back in 2009 when the H1N1 (Swine Flu) invaded the industry, we got rerouted a lot and there was some confusion, but I do not recall them making any similar requirement to the age group that was target for the illness: children and those under 25.  You have paid for the cruise, and now, after the fact, they change the policy, and keep your money. No one is fighting for us right now, unfortunately. 

[pully8]

Ageism is perhaps the last discrimination to be recognised and dealt with in the same way racism pervades the world.

Sadly many do not consider their policies/practices to be discriminatory.

Time for that to change in all aspects of life including travel.

Not all older people fit the stereotype of frail or vulnerable.

Many may be fitter than people half their age. 

[NorthwestCruiser]

It isn't ageism, it is trying to keep you aliveism.   Read up on the situation in Italy right now, they are very close to having to decide to take people off of ventilators based on, well, basically age.   Tragic for us but I think we all would agree that it is more important to protect a young mother -- and despite popular belief,  young mothers are dying as well.

 

From the Washington website, which defines "higher risk of getting very sick" as "being an older adult":

 

If you are at higher risk of getting very sick from COVID-19, you should:

 

• Stock up on supplies.
• Take everyday precautions to keep space between yourself and others.
• When you go out in public, keep away from others who are sick, limit close contact and wash your hands often.
• Avoid crowds as much as possible.
• Avoid cruise travel and non-essential air travel.
• During a COVID-19 outbreak in your community, stay home as much as possible to further reduce your risk of being exposed.

Edited March 14, 2020 by NorthwestCruiser

[subaru94]

8 hours ago, WmFCoyote said:

The kicker in the e-mail is:

 

If you are unable to provide a "fit to travel" letter from your physician or have a compromising medical condition, they will provide you with a Future Cruise Credit to come back and sail with them at a later time.

 

Will PCL cure me of Diabetes? That would be wonderful as I have been fighting this disease for over 20 years. So until I am over this disease Princess will provide me with a Future Cruise Credit? 

That's discrimination, just because you are over 70 does not mean you are old and fragile.  My husband is 70 going on 71 and is fitter than people half his age.

[caribill]

44 minutes ago, subaru94 said:

That's discrimination, just because you are over 70 does not mean you are old and fragile.  My husband is 70 going on 71 and is fitter than people half his age.

 

Not to mention having to pay for the doctor visit(s) and potential laboratory tests.

[subaru94]

2 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

Not to mention having to pay for the doctor visit(s) and potential laboratory tests.

Yes, that comes into it too.

 

[kkmiausa]

i am 70. i don't look it or feel it and have hbp controlled but husband is 80 with severe underlying so we will never be both cleared. So I am out $6000 if we syrvive the virus. I have bought all the possible cures so hope we survive. Loss of cruise credits is least of worties. Just want to live. have my first 4 month old grandchild. All best hope to everyone😇😥

Edited March 14, 2020 by kkmiausa
spelling

[fireman999]

We are in a similar position it the UK as our government has just issued a statement indicating that people over 70 with chronic health conditions such as diabetes should no go on a cruise holiday. My wife and I both have diabetes and my wife has other health problems and we are due to sail on the QE on the 12th April 2020 on a Circumnavigation Cruise of Australia.

Obviously, we have contacted both our cruise agent by email 4 times with no response except to send us the tickets, together with Cunard who have responded indicting that they are reviewing the situation. Some insurers in the UK are stating that travel insurance is for unexpected events and coronavirus is a known event so they are not liable and if you travel against government advice you may not be covered.

This obviously puts us in am impossible situation and makes think we will never cruise again.

[Mackenzie1]

If cruise lines implement this requirement, cruising as we know it will be over with.  The longer cruises of two or more weeks are mostly filled with the 60+ and 70+ demographic because they are retired, and don't have to worry about having enough annual leave to take such a long cruise.  Retirees are as free as birds to take as many cruises as they want, and to take as long a cruise as they want.  I doubt very many are going to make appointments with their doctor's to get doctor's notes, and I doubt that the medical profession is going to look favorably on dedicating resources to giving out travel letters to everyone of that demographic who wants to go on a cruise. In the U.S., cruises will dwindle down to seven-day milk runs from Ft. Lauderdale to St. Thomas, and from Anchorage to Seattle that are filled with younger people who want a short get-away.

[MadManOfBethesda]

4 hours ago, subaru94 said:

That's discrimination, just because you are over 70 does not mean you are old and fragile.

Of course it doesn't.  That's why the cruise lines are permitting all healthy 70+ year old people to continue to travel.  So where's the discrimination?

4 hours ago, subaru94 said:

 My husband is 70 going on 71 and is fitter than people half his age.

 

And if you're doctor agrees, he'll still be allowed to cruise. So what's the issue?

 

[dog]

Could someone direct me to the place where Princess cruises states this?  
on Mach 6 th I took the cancel for 100 percent FCC.  No mention of doctor’s note, age etc was mentioned to me by my TA in order to use it. If so, then I expect a cash refund 

[dog]

10 minutes ago, MadManOfBethesda said:

Of course it doesn't.  That's why the cruise lines are permitting all healthy 70+ year old people to continue to travel.  So where's the discrimination?

 

And if you're doctor agrees, he'll still be allowed to cruise. So what's the issue?

 

It is discrimination, plain and simple 

[MadManOfBethesda]

36 minutes ago, dog said:

It is discrimination, plain and simple 

 

No, it's not.  You need to look up the definition of discrimination.

 

If they banned all 70+ year olds, without regard to any other characteristic or qualification, that would be discrimination.  Simply asking for medical certification that people over 70 are healthy, is not.

 

Plain and simple.

[TYinPalmSprings]

2 hours ago, fireman999 said:

We are in a similar position it the UK as our government has just issued a statement indicating that people over 70 with chronic health conditions such as diabetes should no go on a cruise holiday. My wife and I both have diabetes and my wife has other health problems and we are due to sail on the QE on the 12th April 2020 on a Circumnavigation Cruise of Australia.

Obviously, we have contacted both our cruise agent by email 4 times with no response except to send us the tickets, together with Cunard who have responded indicting that they are reviewing the situation. Some insurers in the UK are stating that travel insurance is for unexpected events and coronavirus is a known event so they are not liable and if you travel against government advice you may not be covered.

This obviously puts us in am impossible situation and makes think we will never cruise again.

The industry will huge a massive market especially as we are more the market that fills their transatlantic and extended voyages and lines like Viking who have a predominantly old clientele.  

[TYinPalmSprings]

57 minutes ago, MadManOfBethesda said:

Of course it doesn't.  That's why the cruise lines are permitting all healthy 70+ year old people to continue to travel.  So where's the discrimination?

 

And if you're doctor agrees, he'll still be allowed to cruise. So what's the issue?

 

The issue is they took your money, then, after the fact, changed their policy. Sure, they can do that, but then they should refund your money as they will not allow you to cruise in the future under their new policy. The credit is worthless. They just stole your money. 

[KmomChicago]

To answer the question in the title of the thread, yes, for many, our cruising days are over.  The current situation has heightened awareness of a slew of risks that were not apparent previously. The piecemeal reactions that have occurred over the past several days are nothing compared to what's coming. 

 

Separate from the outrage current and near future passengers are expressing, and the immediate risks of the current pandemic, public perception of the industry will likely cause a sharp decline in the industry, if not its demise.  First off, lots of people are afraid of water and would never cruise in the first place. Then you get people who try a cruise once and don't like the small staterooms, crowded conditions, add-on charges, or other aspects of the experience.  

 

Then you get people who still remember the Carnival Triumph "poop cruise" and the many nororvirus outbreaks, and long ago decided this whole enterprise was not for them. 

 

Now you have several incidents of shipwide quarantines followed by a coordinated agreement between the government and the cruise lines themselves, all very well publicized, planting the idea that cruise ships are a dangerous environment with a high risk of disease transmission. People will not forget this. Period. That's all.  We will see demand fall off, followed by the cancellation of several megaship pre-orders, decommissioning of some of the smaller and older ships (so long, Carnival Fantasy Class), and a contraction of the industry. It may recover gradually if it can rebuild a stellar safety record over the next few years, and through the next novel viral outbreak, and the one after that, and so on. 

[franktown]

Just talked to my neighbor who is a Cardiologist.  He said he would not sign for any patient under his care without complete testing which would run many thousands of dollars.  Said there is no way to know how a individual would react to the virus including those under 70.  He said and I quote " they are just trying to cover their butt"