What If NCL files for bankruptcy? And we have cruises book ?

[sverigecruiser]

38 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

 

 

No, they can't just anchor outside a country. That's also illegal.  Passengers have to be given the opportunity to disembark and go ashore for the port call to satisfy the PVSA requirements . That requirement can only be waived for national security reasons, not because people want to take a vacation and cruise lines want to make money.

 

 

Rules and laws can be changed. Who knows what happens in the future. Can the port be just a beach on a deserted island in another country? If no, the laws can be changed.

 

If they want to, they can change the laws.

[sverigecruiser]

42 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

How are you going to be sure that crew from third world countries with questionable medical systems and facilities have already had and recovered from Covid-19?

 

I assumed that it was possible to create a test for that but I'm not an expert so I appologize for that suggestion.

[sverigecruiser]

 

The easiest solution is to just give up.

 

 

[njhorseman]

3 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

Rules and laws can be changed. Who knows what happens in the future. Can the port be just a beach on a deserted island in another country? If no, the laws can be changed.

 

If they want to, they can change the laws.

On anyone's agenda of the top 1000 laws that Congress should be concerned about or be interested in changing, this wouldn't even come close to making the list.

[sverigecruiser]

38 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

On anyone's agenda of the top 1000 laws that Congress should be concerned about or be interested in changing, this wouldn't even come close to making the list.

 

If millions of people may die they can make a long list with laws they can just  skip.

 

We can also move the ships so that US laws don't matter.

[Lionkingrichard]

23 hours ago, njhorseman said:

Yes, I'm well aware of the fact that NCL has a line of credit secured by the Epic. That provides cash to draw on but creates a huge liability on their books. It's not something you want to do unless you are concerned your cash flow is going to be insufficient to pay your debt service and your other obligations such as employee salaries. NCL knows very well that their cash on hand was likely to be be insufficient to carry them through this crisis.

You see where NCL posted that they Borrowed the money? They did not apply for credit. They were smart and got all the cash they could right now to weather the storm!

[njhorseman]

2 hours ago, Lionkingrichard said:

You see where NCL posted that they Borrowed the money? They did not apply for credit. They were smart and got all the cash they could right now to weather the storm!

Here it is. NCL has borrowed the full $1.55 billion available from its two credit lines.

 

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/22621-nclh-taps-into-1-55-billion-credit-facility.html

 

"NCLH said that beginning on March 12, 2020, it has borrowed the full amount of $1.55 billion."

 

And here's their SEC 8-K filing that confirms the above  news report:

http://www.nclhltdinvestor.com/node/12776/html

 

$675 million of the 1.55 billion is a new credit line recently obtained .

Edited March 23, 2020 by njhorseman

[Love my butler]

9 hours ago, Lionkingrichard said:

You see where NCL posted that they Borrowed the money? They did not apply for credit. They were smart and got all the cash they could right now to weather the storm!

Yeah, the have their 'valued customer's' cash in their bank right now.  They have issued IOUs.  Err, I mean Future Cruise Credits.

[sr71_1]

..well....I recently placed my bet that NCL will get back to good health.   While the stock bounced nicely today it'll be back down and up a few more gut wrenching times for sure ... if I'm right NCl will be paying me to take several years of future Haven cruising....    I figure this is my small way of helping them get back on they feet so the they are less reluctant to cancel this years alaska cruise season  = they will give me back my (June cruise) Haven cash...... Win-Win     

[Lionkingrichard]

15 hours ago, Love my butler said:

Yeah, the have their 'valued customer's' cash in their bank right now.  They have issued IOUs.  Err, I mean Future Cruise Credits.

Yes they have 2 BILLION in FCC and deposits on the books. Not sure if that was counted against the $250 Million cash on hand? I wouldn't think so? It will take some time to work through that. Going to be a bad couple years. No more free flights. That cost them a lot of profits!

 

 

 

Big congrats to any one who bought at $7 and sold today at $14! Doubled your money!

[PelicanBill]

On 3/19/2020 at 4:41 PM, Formula280SS said:

 

 

I probably won't worry about Norovirus ever again!!!!!!!!!!

 

Good point... me too!

[Formula280SS]

42 minutes ago, PelicanBill said:

 

Good point... me too!

 

Bill, LOL.  I was a germafobe 'long before COVID19 and the current cruise line closures.

 

I posted a thread on NOROVIRUS that displayed my preventative thoughts (got mostly hammered). 😄  Not just on cruises, but on airplanes on the way to a cruise (I Clorox wipe down 'everything for our two seats, as well as the person in the 3rd seat, make them gargle Purell and wear nose plugs - JK on that part).

 

Oh well, our methods can be scoffed at; however, we've not been sick in years.

 

I'd like to enumerate on our trips to the grocery store; however, that would send 'some over the top.

 

Or, what we did  😲 on our 2 leg 14 hour and 9 hour two month early return from south east coast of FL to NH via MD to avoid 'everybody and 'everything.

 

As an aside, the restrictions on the cruise lines, the cruise ports, etc. is tough.  It is also 'unbalanced across other industries and cities.  For example, the airlines were left open and NYC has 3 major ones and proclaim "we welcome everyone."  Well, that hasn't worked out so well.  UNFORTUNATELY, NYC'ers that can are FLEEING to various locations.

 

Can you imagine an infected cruise ship, aka NYC as US and almost World "hotspot," being allowed to just hop in a car and leave to other jurisdictions in the US?

 

NO.

 

It wouldn't have been allowed.

 

The cruise industry shut itself down.  They then leveraged (credit lines) to cover customer/prepaid amounts and 15+ months of operations @ $-0- in revenue at first then incremental increases as "drug therapy treatments" evolve and a "vaccine" is developed.

 

These large urban areas didn't shut down, left mass transit (self owned) open, left airports ($$) open, late to curb restaurants and bars, 6' spacing and 10 grouping.

 

NOW.

 

They are being admired 'for their response?  And, how they blame the US for not having what they need?

 

REALLY.

 

They, the admired, "opened the door and welcomed the virus," then let those that could 'escape to infect other geographies across the nation.

 

The cruise lines?  They 'bit the bullet, took the financial hit.  I'm encouraged that customer deposits are now much more reasonably expected to be honored, that the cruise lines will 'make it.

 

We will have to wait a bit to book a cruise again, although very active and healthy, fit and trim, want to make sure our immune systems are appropriate after we take care of older two 6 adn 8 YO grandkids for the summer (to help out one sons' family).

 

NOROVIROUS, not a problem.

 

 

[npcl]

On 3/24/2020 at 10:46 AM, Lionkingrichard said:

Yes they have 2 BILLION in FCC and deposits on the books. Not sure if that was counted against the $250 Million cash on hand? I wouldn't think so? It will take some time to work through that. Going to be a bad couple years. No more free flights. That cost them a lot of profits!

 

 

 

Big congrats to any one who bought at $7 and sold today at $14! Doubled your money!

The deposits are in the current liability area, it does not mean that they have the cash setting aside for them.  If they had the cash for those deposits it would be listed as an asset with a corresponding entry in the liability.  As such they have already spent the cash from most of those deposits.

 

The question is how much of that liability they have been able to convert to FCC's, instead of having to give cash refunds.

Edited March 26, 2020 by npcl

[BonnieJeanne]

What’s everyone thoughts on this ?   
what do you think would happen if you have a paid in full cruise?? 
I have a May 2nd cruise and starting to worry a little bit with the market dumping as it is. NCL is now down to $7.xx A share.  
 
what’s everyone thoughts.  

I did some research on this over the weekend. The experts seem to agree that cruise companies are generally very profitable, so banks would likely be happy to give them a loan.


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[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, BonnieJeanne said:

I did some research on this over the weekend. The experts seem to agree that cruise companies are generally very profitable, so banks would likely be happy to give them a loan.


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Your research wasn't very good. Cruise companies are highly leveraged...they have huge debt service obligations because of all the billion dollar ships they've built and insufficient cash on hand to pay that debt service, refund the money owed to passengers who have had their cruises cancelled and pay their other obligations such as employee salaries. 

They'll need huge infusions of cash to survive an extended shutdown. I saw today that Carnival is looking to raise over $7 billion through issuing additional stock and borrowing. NCL just borrowed 1.55 billion but will soon need more. They will be paying dearly for the money they borrow.

 

Oh...also they all will lose money this year. 

[BonnieJeanne]

Your research wasn't very good. Cruise companies are highly leveraged...they have huge debt service obligations because of all the billion dollar ships they've built and insufficient cash on hand to pay that debt service, refund the money owed to passengers who have had their cruises cancelled and pay their other obligations such as employee salaries. 
They'll need huge infusions of cash to survive an extended shutdown. I saw today that Carnival is looking to raise over $7 billion through issuing additional stock and borrowing. NCL just borrowed 1.55 billion but will soon need more. They will be paying dearly for the money they borrow.
 
Oh...also they all will lose money this year. 

Of course they will lose money this year. Thanks for setting me straight on the misinformation I read on the bank loans. Since the entire industry is going bankrupt, I guess I’ll just go to St Barts.


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[david_sobe]

On 3/18/2020 at 12:08 PM, Isabella Benjamin said:

I do not believe they will go bankrupt.  Let's say the worst case scenario is that they have to dock their ships for up to a year.  They just took out a really big loan to help with the overhead expenses.  

 

At the point where people can start getting vaccinated, whenever that happens, people who have proof they've been vaccinated or proof they've had the virus would be free to cruise again.

 

I believe NCL is prepared for the worst case scenario.  Those ships are just worth too much money for their lenders to let them fail.

I agree.  Companies operate all the time while filing for bankruptcy.  What so many seem not forget is this is a health crisis and that indirectly caused an economic crisis.  The cruise lines were operating at record profits.  Those ships will be profitable again.  There will always people wanting to take cruises.  They just must weather this health crisis until it is safe to cruise again.  The only thing that is preventing cruising right now is the health crisis.  This will pass and cruising will dig themselves out of their hole.  New ships may be put on hold but this has happened before.  Remember Epic 2?  The economic crisis hit in 2008 and those plans were shelved.

Edited April 1, 2020 by david_sobe

[4774Papa]

Don't know what NCL's debt is right now.  If they have debt problems they may go into a reorganization, although NCL is not a US Corporation, bankruptcy with reorganization is a likely choice no matter what country.

[Newleno]

3 hours ago, david_sobe said:

I agree.  Companies operate all the time while filing for bankruptcy.  What so many seem not forget is this is a health crisis and that indirectly caused an economic crisis.  The cruise lines were operating at record profits.  Those ships will be profitable again.  There will always people wanting to take cruises.  They just must weather this health crisis until it is safe to cruise again.  The only thing that is preventing cruising right now is the health crisis.  This will pass and cruising will dig themselves out of their hole.  New ships may be put on hold but this has happened before.  Remember Epic 2?  The economic crisis hit in 2008 and those plans were shelved.

Not only a health crisis, a job crisis, a disposable income crisis, a do i ever want to take a cruise on a floating petri  dish again crisis.

[Ptroxx]

So now what , in the wake of everything in the last week or so.   
BK or Bust

[sr71_1]

In the tidal wave of everything going on around us I totally understand how everyone is negative & questioning everything - since these forums allow us to throw in our two cents here's mine:    The global economy was booming but stopped in its tracks by Corona.   Yes - it will get worse before it gets better but our scientific community will figure this out.   We'll get back to work... business will boom again ....the banks will continue to keep their big customers floating (cruise lines) ... and as noted above we will all be cruising again.  I bought more NCL stock today ... to go with the purchases I bought last week and week before.  NCL is not going out of business.  I could be wrong but that's my two cents - I sure hope for all of us that I am right!             

[mugtech]

Probably not going to book an NCL cruise anytime soon, but I certainly want them to stay in business or otherwise there will be higher demand and higher prices for cruises I want to book elsewhere.  Best of luck, NCL and loyal cruisers.

[Ptroxx]

55 minutes ago, mugtech said:

Probably not going to book an NCL cruise anytime soon, but I certainly want them to stay in business or otherwise there will be higher demand and higher prices for cruises I want to book elsewhere.  Best of luck, NCL and loyal cruisers.

And I just had a cruise to Alaska just canceled.    
Trying to decide if I want a refund in 90 days or the FCC 125% and another 20% off a cruise.   

what good is the FCC turned into another cruise if they go BK.   

[mugtech]

2 minutes ago, Ptroxx said:

And I just had a cruise to Alaska just canceled.    
Trying to decide if I want a refund in 90 days or the FCC 125% and another 20% off a cruise.   

what good is the FCC turned into another cruise if they go BK.   

Take the money and run. 

[Ptroxx]

3 minutes ago, mugtech said:

Take the money and run. 

Ya think.   I’m starting to think the same thing.  
I was gonna book a Caribbean cruise to go B2B to go with my RC cruise outta Puerto Rico for Feb2021.   No money outta my pocket.  And about 300 OBC.    
but with another 30 days at the least with theUS being shut down I don’t know how the cruise lines can survive.  
And that’s if we get a handle on this mess.   
I have 500 in cruise next that I paid about 190.00 bucs for that I’m ok on loosing but don’t wanna lose all my money.   
and if NCL survives at least I have the 500.00 for when prices go back down I. The next 3 years lol.