Changes in Onboard Behavior & Procedures after Cruises restart sailing again...

[clo]

2 hours ago, ldubs said:

I would take a vaccine that is 50% effective

I would also...but I wouldn't get on a cruise ship.

[navybankerteacher]

3 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

What I remember is the sugar cube too.  Maybe my life long irrational fear of needles makes it more vivid because I dodged a shot.  haha

 

I would take a vaccine that is 50% effective.  That is a heck of a lot better than what I have now.  Best would be if it was a sugar cube instead of the shot, but that is hoping for too much I know.   

A 50% effective rate is certainly better than nothing - and some years the flu shot does not exceed that by much.  Still, I do not believe I would want to cruise unless there was something else - a major drop in new infections (approaching zero) or strong evidence that COVID has mutated to a less threatening strain.

[ldubs]

8 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

A 50% effective rate is certainly better than nothing - and some years the flu shot does not exceed that by much.  Still, I do not believe I would want to cruise unless there was something else - a major drop in new infections (approaching zero) or strong evidence that COVID has mutated to a less threatening strain.

 

I also am not planning on any new cruises until I see what things are going to look like, including a lot better information about CV.  I am retired and truly blessed with many other things that I enjoy and can do besides go on a cruise.  

 

At this point, I just want things to start opening up again.     

[ilikeanswers]

Unless the vaccine is rolled out worldwide to everyone I would need to know cruise lines have strong plans for what happens when denied docking. As long as the threat of COVID19 is there countries can reject cruise ships at a whim and charter flights are not that cheap especially if insurance will not cover it. 

[SRF]

On 4/26/2020 at 2:19 PM, clo said:

If that happens. It seems that there's already some question in some patients.

 

No one will hang their hat on saying that you will or will not get immunity.

 

But the data is such, that they are not sure.  There have been some reoccurances, but not enough data to know if it was a reinfection, or if the person was feeling better, and had a relapse.

 

Also, there is some concern about the length of immunity for having it or a vaccine.  This may end up being a multi dose vaccine (like Hep A, Hep B, and Polio), and possibly a reoccurring one (every so many years).  

 

Again, if having it does not confer immunity, it will be a BIG problem with regards to a vaccine.

[SRF]

On 4/26/2020 at 3:12 PM, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

The actual quote of what WHO actually said was: ""There is currently no evidence that people who have recovered from #COVID19 and have antibodies are protected from a second infection.""

But they quickly took it down, and replaced it with:  "Earlier today we tweeted about a new WHO scientific brief on "immunity passports". The thread caused some concern & we would like to clarify:

 

We expect that most people who are infected with #COVID19 will develop an antibody response that will provide some level of protection.'

A very different kettle of fish.  And a good reminder that if possible we should go to the actual source, rather than letting the MSM filter it for you.  There is a big difference between a claim that there is "not enough" evidence and a claim that there is "no evidence".

But you shouldn't believe me, either.  Here is the Twitter thread:

 

https://twitter.com/i/status/1254160937805926405

and if you scroll down about 4 tweets you'll see their own record of the original immunity passport thread, which they had deleted.  Showing what they actually said, as I described above.

 

The first statement was over simplified.

 

Basically, as I said, no one wants to say definitively one way or the other, at this time.

[Toofarfromthesea]

6 minutes ago, SRF said:

 

The first statement was over simplified.

 

Basically, as I said, no one wants to say definitively one way or the other, at this time.

 

Not only was it over-simplified, it was made by the same agency, WHO, that told us in mid-January that there was no evidence of human to human transmission.

[clo]

31 minutes ago, SRF said:

 

No one will hang their hat on saying that you will or will not get immunity.

 

But the data is such, that they are not sure.  There have been some reoccurances, but not enough data to know if it was a reinfection, or if the person was feeling better, and had a relapse.

 

Also, there is some concern about the length of immunity for having it or a vaccine.  This may end up being a multi dose vaccine (like Hep A, Hep B, and Polio), and possibly a reoccurring one (every so many years).  

 

Again, if having it does not confer immunity, it will be a BIG problem with regards to a vaccine.

Data. We need lots and lots of data.

[gusbeall]

23 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

It will be "cleared up" only when there is a proven vaccine. Until then if a single person gets on the ship and spreads C19 just by breathing the air around that person; we will be exactly back where Westerdam & Zaandam were; every port will close to the ship. There are 10 in testing right now. Yesterday (11th) it was said that 2021 is the expected date for a "proven" vaccine!    The remark about getting a flight really means nothing when you can not even get off the ship because the port or ports are totally closed to you. The difference between C-19 and the the Black Death, also known as the Pestilence and the Plague, was the most fatal pandemic recorded in human history, resulting in the deaths of up to 75–200 million people in Eurasia and North Africa, peaking in Europe from 1347 to 1351 is almost nothing EXCEPT we have communications now that almost travel faster than the virus,( and in the case of Communist China who allowed infected people to travel around the world for months and months while they kept the VIRUS a secret) we know how to keep people apart, we have Rx that slows the virus, we have ventilators and closing the borders. Just look at the world right now, 200 countries affected because of people on airplanes that have the virus that move at 500+ MPH Gus (Gold Mariner 600+ days)

 

[cdwise]

If you are going to put your life on hold until there is a vaccine or a "near zero" infection rate I hope you really enjoy staying in your home.  Life is not safe. Influenza dills tens of thousands every year in spite of vaccines. There has never been a vaccine for any coronavirus as far as I can find from researching the subject, No I'm not a doctor or other medical professional but I have been extensively trained and have decades in experience when it comes to research. Coronaviruses account for 40% of the common cold, primarily winter colds. The rest are mostly rhinoviruses. SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV are examples of previous cornonavisues  Covid-19 aka the "novel" or new SARS-CoV-2 that appeared in 2019 belongs to that same family, SARS hit Asia hard in 2003 while MERS 2012 & 2015 was even more deadly just less contagious. Neither has a vaccine. Ebola another pandemic illness took 19 years before a vaccine was available.  

 

We will cruise again and hopefully in October when using the FCC we took for one of our 3 canceled cruises this year. That is with or without a vaccine, whether or not my husband and I get Covid and develop antibodies before then. I have a suspicion I've already had it after an international event I attended end of January so when an antibody test is available where I live I will take it just to know one way or another. In the meantime life isn't safe. They are health risks to staying home and doing nothing for months as well as from getting some virus (influenza reached pandemic levels in the US Dec 18, 2019 but you didn't hear the call to shut the world down for it or  any of the previous influenza pandemics of the last 3 years). Hopefully I'll see some of you onboard, if not, enjoy staying "safe".

[gusbeall]

Not on hold, just waiting for Rx to catch up for this older person that can find many things to do outside, away from big crowds where one does not have to pass someone (like in a passageway on the ship) and touch or come within inches of another person. Cruising is nice but not the only thing to do on this earth. I survived being hunted by the Viet Cong in 1969 and the Iranian Revolutionary Guard after the county fell in 1979; but I could SEE and HEAR and SMELL them. This one is totally hidden, and again I'm not twenty anymore.

[navybankerteacher]

53 minutes ago, cdwise said:

...

 

Ebola another pandemic illness took 19 years before a vaccine was available.  

...

 

They are health risks to staying home and doing nothing for months as well as from getting some virus (influenza reached pandemic levels in the US Dec 18, 2019 but you didn't hear the call to shut the world down for it or  any of the previous influenza pandemics of the last 3 years). Hopefully I'll see some of you onboard, if not, enjoy staying "safe".

I think you misunderstand the meaning of the term “pandemic” . The last influenza pandemic was in 2009, and Ebola did not reach pandemic status - due to early and effective “shutting down”.  If “the call to shut the world down” this time around had been made (and heeded) earlier we would not have seen so many tens of thousands dying in countries around the world. We also still know too little about COVID 19 - whether contracting it grants subsequent immunity, whether and when  a vaccine with a significant effectiveness rate can be developed - to rush back to business as usual.

[clo]

1 hour ago, cdwise said:

If you are going to put your life on hold until there is a vaccine or a "near zero" infection rate I hope you really enjoy staying in your home. 

You wrote that which is a general statement that I could agree with. But then you go on and make it sound like if one doesn't go on a cruise you're putting your life on hold. I've seen far more of the world NOT on a ship than ON. The only reason we kinda/sorta returned to cruising was to visit Antarctica. I'd almost say you've already "put your life on hold" if all your travel is via a ship.

[clo]

49 minutes ago, gusbeall said:

Not on hold, just waiting for Rx to catch up for this older person that can find many things to do outside, away from big crowds where one does not have to pass someone (like in a passageway on the ship) and touch or come within inches of another person. Cruising is nice but not the only thing to do on this earth. I survived being hunted by the Viet Cong in 1969 and the Iranian Revolutionary Guard after the county fell in 1979; but I could SEE and HEAR and SMELL them. This one is totally hidden, and again I'm not twenty anymore.

Thank you for your service. And I'm sure you've read that more Americans have died from this virus than died in Vietnam. That brings it home for our generation. 

[cdwise]

Unfortunately I didn't bookmark the page where the CDC declared that influenza in the US for the 2018-2020 flu season passed the level set for a pandemic in the US as of December 18, 2019 but it seems to have disappeared. I did still find the one for 2017 influenza season https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2018/02/09/this-flu-season-has-now-reached-pandemic-levels-but-its-not-technically-a-pandemic/ which does say that it isn't "technically" a pandemic just reached and subsequently surpassed pandemic levels.

 

Whether the shutdown of the world was or was not necessary will be something for forensic scientists to determine when we do have data comparing countries that didn't shut down with those that did. In the meantime given that there has never been a successful vaccine for a coronavirus I'm not going to put everything on hold for one.

. 

[clo]

23 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

We also still know too little about COVID 19 - whether contracting it grants subsequent immunity, whether and when  a vaccine with a significant effectiveness rate can be developed - to rush back to business as usual.

That IMO is the single most important thing. Tattoo it on your hand if you need to. (Not YOU, nbt.) We know almost nothing about this. It's going to tons of data that we're no where close to having.

[cdwise]

3 minutes ago, clo said:

You wrote that which is a general statement that I could agree with. But then you go on and make it sound like if one doesn't go on a cruise you're putting your life on hold. I've seen far more of the world NOT on a ship than ON. The only reason we kinda/sorta returned to cruising was to visit Antarctica. I'd almost say you've already "put your life on hold" if all your travel is via a ship.

Well I didn't mean that not cruising would be putting your life on hold but if you are not going to do anything that could expose you to getting the virus then you would be putting your life on hold. What I did mean was that if your criteria for doing anything that could expose you is a vaccine or "almost" zero infections then you would be. 

 

[clo]

1 minute ago, cdwise said:

if you are not going to do anything that could expose you to getting the virus then you would be putting your life on hold.

And who said that?  There's a big difference between "anything" and closing yourself up with a few thousand strangers where if anything goes wrong you're flat out SOL. No thanks.

[rkacruiser]

My life is not on hold.  To be "on hold" is to accept a plateau that I am unwilling to accept.  Until I absolutely have to; I'm not there yet.  

 

Are there things that I would prefer to have a choice doing currently?  Certainly.  Do I believe that I will once again be able to do so?  Absolutely.

 

If one does not have hope for the future, what kind of life is that?  

[clo]

6 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

If one does not have hope for the future, what kind of life is that?  

But if your future doesn't include cruising you'd do other great things, wouldn't you?

[clo]

Just saw this on the Princess board; quoting the CDC the poster thought:

 

"There are also crew members who, in addition to being low-paid, sleep in communal quarters. They have bunk beds. They share bathrooms. They often eat together at mess halls".

[rkacruiser]

3 minutes ago, clo said:

But if your future doesn't include cruising you'd do other great things, wouldn't you?

 

I would do so to the best of my ability within the parameters of what is realistic.

[clo]

17 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I would do so to the best of my ability within the parameters of what is realistic.

I get that. We're in our 70s now and there are things we did 20 years ago that we wouldn't do now.

[rkacruiser]

3 minutes ago, clo said:

I get that. We're in our 70s now and there are things we did 20 years ago that we wouldn't do now.

 

You fully understood what I was saying.

 

For me, the sad aspect of that is:  I'd still like to do them!  I'm just thankful that I can do what I can do.

[navybankerteacher]

3 minutes ago, clo said:

I get that. We're in our 70s now and there are things we did 20 years ago that we wouldn't do now.

And I have to acknowledge (without discussing my age) that there are things we do now that we sure as hell will not be able to do 20 years from now.