When will the next shutdown extension be announced?

[cruisenewbie1976]

16 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

I know that you keep saying it’s not cash flow, but I’m afraid that you are wrong. Workload is of course part of the issue but doesn’t in any way account for 60 days delays on refunds. Hardly anyone has had a refund yet, which tells you all you need to know. Anyone who has ever run a business will tell you that in the current crisis it’s all about cash flow and, as I have pointed out before when you said the same thing, ABTA are saying the same. 

Where have you got the stats from for people who've had a refund? 

[AndyMichelle]

7 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

I know that you keep saying it’s not cash flow, but I’m afraid that you are wrong. Workload is of course part of the issue but doesn’t in any way account for 60 days delays on refunds. Hardly anyone has had a refund yet, which tells you all you need to know. Anyone who has ever run a business will tell you that in the current crisis it’s all about cash flow and, as I have pointed out before when you said the same thing, ABTA are saying the same. 

Yep, ABTA said yesterday that without government help, many companies will collapse. Which? said the same. 

They are not only struck trying to survive with no income, we all want money that has already been spent refunded... 

Of course they are going to try to hold on to money wherever possible. 

There would be a slow flow of refunds happening if it was just down to staffing.. 

Andy 

[cruisenewbie1976]

1 hour ago, terrierjohn said:

The Iona Canaries cruise in Feb next year, which I transferred my cancelled April 19 cruise to, is exactly, to the pound, the same price today as it was when I did the transfer in March.

Same here. In anticipation of our cruise being cancelled, I priced up 3 for next year about 2 months ago. Just checked them all again and they're still exactly the same price. 

[Selbourne]

Just now, cruisenewbie1976 said:

Where have you got the stats from for people who've had a refund? 

No stats, there’s a separate thread about it on here and it seems that only one contributor (the OP) has had their refund. 

[cruisenewbie1976]

Just now, Selbourne said:

No stats, there’s a separate thread about it on here and it seems that only one contributor (the OP) has had their refund. 

To be fair, there's only about 10 regulars that post on here so that's not really a very good sample size. It's evident that there are a lot of people waiting from the comments on their twitter pages though. But then again, they're dealing with thousands of people so it's difficult to gauge. It'd be interesting to know how many refunds they have processed so far. 

[Tablelamp]

11 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

Yep, totally agree. 

I'm still trying to be optimistic despite the facts.. 😊

Andy 

Being checked upon embarkation  isn’t really the answer as what about excursions.   Would they check you every time you re-boarded?   And what would happen if you had a temperature when you did re-board.  Would they leave you behind?  I’ve  loved every moment of my cruises but probably won’t cruise again until we have a tried and tested vaccine.

[Monorail Orange]

Apologies if this is a daft question, but I've only paid a deposit so far. Would that mean they won't now take the balance? And that just the deposit is transferrable?

 

 

[zap99]

Pause in operations until 31 July.

[Selbourne]

Just now, cruisenewbie1976 said:

To be fair, there's only about 10 regulars that post on here so that's not really a very good sample size. It's evident that there are a lot of people waiting from the comments on their twitter pages though. But then again, they're dealing with thousands of people so it's difficult to gauge. It'd be interesting to know how many refunds they have processed so far. 

Yes I think we’d all be interested to know that. I think many of us suspect that the numbers who have received refunds are very low as a percentage. We requested a refund for our May cruise the day it was cancelled. I have made a note of when the 60 days is up and don’t anticipate getting the refund much before then, but live in hope! Although cash flow is the driver, now that all cruises up to 31st July are cancelled if they don’t get a move on and start processing the earlier refunds at pace the workload could overwhelm them. 

[Selbourne]

3 minutes ago, Monorail Orange said:

Apologies if this is a daft question, but I've only paid a deposit so far. Would that mean they won't now take the balance? And that just the deposit is transferrable?

 

 

Whatever you have paid so far, deposit or full payment, is transferable, but you can only get a refund when the cruise is formally cancelled (up to 31st July). If you just cancel before balance due date, you have to transfer the deposit as FCC or lose it. P&O is being a bit crafty in cancelling after balance due dates, as they then have a lot of people’s money for 60 days until they refund it, which helps their cash flow - but not ours!

[molecrochip]

9 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

Yep, ABTA said yesterday that without government help, many companies will collapse. Which? said the same. 

They are not only struck trying to survive with no income, we all want money that has already been spent refunded... 

Of course they are going to try to hold on to money wherever possible. 

There would be a slow flow of refunds happening if it was just down to staffing.. 

Andy 

Was talking with someone involved in the refund process yesterday. Cashflow is not the issue. Management are pushing for refunds to be done as quickly as possible but there really is a significant shortage of suitable staff. Most staff are being needed answering phones meaning that there are very few to process refunds.

 

I also know of a number of people who have received refunds - just because they don't post on here doesn't mean they don't exist.

Selbourne - your principle is completely correct but that really is not the case. Carnival UK & Corp now have liquid cash funds available to survive through 12/20 if they receive no more income. This is well documented. They are not earning significant funds on deposit due to market rates therefore no advantage to slowing cashflow - the stock markets already know the money is going back to customers so doesn't make a difference whether its now or in 3 months as they will have already recorded the liability,

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

But what was the price in October last year?

Since I had booked it initially on launch I can tell you exactly, the new price is £168pp higher, but the OBC is £170pp more. 

[zap99]

12 hours ago, wowzz said:

I see the Chief Medical Officer today said that social distancing would need to be kept in place  for at least the rest of this year. So, basically that's cruising out for 2020  (and probably the death knell for thousands of pubs, restaurants and cafes  as well)

IMHO I can't see cruising in large ships going ahead next year either.  Taking a FCC, which has no intrinsic value, for a cruise that will probably not go ahead, is a high risk strategy. Just ask for a cash refund, and stick the money under your mattress in the hope that, one day,  we can go to the sea side again. Cruising, as we know it, is over for at least two years.

Does that mean my cruise at the end of August on Iona may be at risk?. Quite looking forward to seeing Gary Barlow.

[Dinglebert]

4 minutes ago, zap99 said:

Does that mean my cruise at the end of August on Iona may be at risk?. Quite looking forward to seeing Gary Barlow.

In short yes.  Chances of crusing this year is probably nil from a UK ship.  If pubs etc are the last to open then a cruise ship is in many ways a giant pub and restaurant.

[AndyMichelle]

30 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

Was talking with someone involved in the refund process yesterday. Cashflow is not the issue. Management are pushing for refunds to be done as quickly as possible but there really is a significant shortage of suitable staff. Most staff are being needed answering phones meaning that there are very few to process refunds.

 

I also know of a number of people who have received refunds - just because they don't post on here doesn't mean they don't exist.

Selbourne - your principle is completely correct but that really is not the case. Carnival UK & Corp now have liquid cash funds available to survive through 12/20 if they receive no more income. This is well documented. They are not earning significant funds on deposit due to market rates therefore no advantage to slowing cashflow - the stock markets already know the money is going back to customers so doesn't make a difference whether its now or in 3 months as they will have already recorded the liability,

Sorry, ABTA and which? Must have it wrong then.. 

All the people on the other social media sites still waiting for refunds, the today program, BBC and various other media outlets are all mistaken. 

Sorry my mistake. 

Andy 

[AndyMichelle]

44 minutes ago, Tablelamp said:

Being checked upon embarkation  isn’t really the answer as what about excursions.   Would they check you every time you re-boarded?   And what would happen if you had a temperature when you did re-board.  Would they leave you behind?  I’ve  loved every moment of my cruises but probably won’t cruise again until we have a tried and tested vaccine.

I was only dreaming... 😊

Andy 

[Roger88]

Just now, AndyMichelle said:

I was only dreaming... 😊

Andy 

The funny thing is that I am afraid of saying things that might not have anything related to reality. I mean, I only hear on the news that some politician will give a word on the situation. They literally speak about it everyday and no words needed really. Its not a situation that can be solved that easily and I think that we shouldnt be expecting any serious speeches given in a near future. I only hope that economy itself will adjust itself and we wont care about things that are going on in the world right now 

[AndyMichelle]

48 minutes ago, cruisenewbie1976 said:

To be fair, there's only about 10 regulars that post on here so that's not really a very good sample size. It's evident that there are a lot of people waiting from the comments on their twitter pages though. But then again, they're dealing with thousands of people so it's difficult to gauge. It'd be interesting to know how many refunds they have processed so far. 

There are more 'watchers' than you give this site credit for, but they would be soon to post if anything major happened. 

Despite that, all other social media sites are reporting similar, not many have had anything back yet. 

Andy 

[terrierjohn]

29 minutes ago, zap99 said:

Does that mean my cruise at the end of August on Iona may be at risk?. Quite looking forward to seeing Gary Barlow.

Extremely unlikely you will be cruising, P&O have just announced that cruises up to July 32st are cancelled. So its very unlikely we will see any cruising before Nov or Dec at the very earliest.

Edited April 23, 2020 by terrierjohn

[majortom10]

2 hours ago, AndyMichelle said:

Good points Selborne. 

Someone will have to be the first to take the plunge and, despite the risks, someone will do it as soon as realistically possible. 

MSC are already talking about getting operations ready to go in China. 

A massive risk, could be make or break, but if they are likely to break anyway.. 

Now B&Q are open, every other retailer wants to do the same, the cruise companies will be no different. 

I know the cruise industry is almost impossible to social distance, but with adequate screening at boarding, things may be different, although we are probably a way off that yet. 

Imagine we got to a stage where they could guarantee nobody onboard, crew or passengers had the virus, it would be the safest place to be. (dreaming, I know)... 

Insurance issues will get resolved because they have to. 

It's a massive risk, but when one jumps.. 

Andy 

 

Footnote.. I won't be going anywhere near a cruise ship until you lot have tried it... 😊

 

 

 

 

 

Well we have a 28nt cruise with Cunard booked for October which we booked 2 yrs ago. Dream cruise but dont know if it will still go ahead or be cancelled and not happy about paying £6000 balance in June but TBH we love cruising but would be far happier if it was cancelled but cannot see that happening before our balance is due.

[TOM CRUIZES]

3 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Extremely like P&O have just announced that cruises up to July 32st are cancelled. So itĺsvery unlikely we will see any cruising before Nov or Dec at the very earliest.

 

Both P&O and Cunard just announced cancelations/suspends all Cruises up to 31st July.

Edited April 23, 2020 by TOM CRUIZES

[molecrochip]

7 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

Sorry, ABTA and which? Must have it wrong then.. 

All the people on the other social media sites still waiting for refunds, the today program, BBC and various other media outlets are all mistaken. 

Sorry my mistake. 

Andy 

ABTA and Which are not wrong about travel companies. However its necessary to understand the difference in financial model.

 

Take TUI. They don't own their planes (leased), their down own their coaches (hired from local operators) and they down own most of their hotels (rooms block booked from owners/operators). They have nothing to offer banks and private investors as security.

 

That's not the same for Carnival. Carnival was able to offer 70-90 ships which are fully paid up as security which enabled them to raise the cash hence why they could draw down $3bn instantly.

 

So generally ABTA are right, but we're not talking about your traditional package tour operator on this board.

[Eglesbrech]

19 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

Was talking with someone involved in the refund process yesterday. Cashflow is not the issue. Management are pushing for refunds to be done as quickly as possible but there really is a significant shortage of suitable staff. Most staff are being needed answering phones meaning that there are very few to process refunds.

 

I also know of a number of people who have received refunds - just because they don't post on here doesn't mean they don't exist.

Selbourne - your principle is completely correct but that really is not the case. Carnival UK & Corp now have liquid cash funds available to survive through 12/20 if they receive no more income. This is well documented. They are not earning significant funds on deposit due to market rates therefore no advantage to slowing cashflow - the stock markets already know the money is going back to customers so doesn't make a difference whether its now or in 3 months as they will have already recorded the liability,

The numbers on here are indeed very small but the total outrage and vast numbers commenting on the lack of refunds on other larger media sites makes it clear that anyone who has received their refund so far is among the very lucky few.

 

People have also been asking what date they are up to with refunds and there is just silence. If they are working through refunds, all be it slowly if staffing is the issue, then surely they can tell those asking how far they have got so far. I think this kind of information would reassure people that they will get their money, eventually. In the vacuum of information people will make all sorts of other assumptions.

 

They have communication staff on hand to add unnecessary posts like recipes, their time would be better used reporting on refunds etc. We have refunded up to x date or we will be refunding y cruise next week. 

[wowzz]

I find it strange that on other social media forums, people are saying they will rebook their cancelled cruise to one in October this year.

What alternative planet are these people living on? Do they not read the papers, watch the news etc? When the government are saying  that pubs and restaurants will be amongst the last to open, and only with restrictions, why on earth do they think cruises will go ahead in October?

[molecrochip]

2 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

The numbers on here are indeed very small but the total outrage and vast numbers commenting on the lack of refunds on other larger media sites makes it clear that anyone who has received their refund so far is among the very lucky few.

 

People have also been asking what date they are up to with refunds and there is just silence. If they are working through refunds, all be it slowly if staffing is the issue, then surely they can tell those asking how far they have got so far. I think this kind of information would reassure people that they will get their money, eventually. In the vacuum of information people will make all sorts of other assumptions.

 

They have communication staff on hand to add unnecessary posts like recipes, their time would be better used reporting on refunds etc. We have refunded up to x date or we will be refunding y cruise next week. 

 

I agree - and I don't know the answer to that. All I can tell you is that each person has a batch to work through and I don't know how that batch was allocated. I will ask and if I get the answer I will let you know.

 

1 minute ago, wowzz said:

I find it strange that on other social media forums, people are saying they will rebook their cancelled cruise to one in October this year.

What alternative planet are these people living on? Do they not read the papers, watch the news etc? When the government are saying  that pubs and restaurants will be amongst the last to open, and only with restrictions, why on earth do they think cruises will go ahead in October?

 

Paul Ludlow's comments were interesting this morning. He said that when cruising returns there will need to be new restrictions in place (he compared with airline liquid restrictions). He implied that cruising could begin earlier but with even more stringent restrictions in place and that they don't want to do this and it would devalue the holiday experience too much.