Ships returning to Europe

[ducklite]

9 hours ago, wowzz said:

A slight relaxation of lockdown rules is one thing. Allowing 1000s of strangers to leave a ship and wander around a port is totally another.

Anyone who thinks that cruises in Europe will restart before October at the very earliest, is very misguided.

Heck, in the UK,  we're being told to forget about taking holidays in our own country this year,   let alone taking cruise holidays, or letting cruise ships arrive at places like Southampton or Glasgow.  

We have friends who live in Austria. There is much discussion about the German tourists who flock to Austria by the tens of thousands each summer.  Austria likes the tourism dollars, but the overwhelming sentiment is that they want to keep their borders closed to holidaymakers and only allow essential travel with prior permission.  

My cousin lives in Florence, and says they are  likely going to keep their borders closed except for essential travel until next year.  

I've also read that there's a lot of concern between many of the Schengen countries where one wants to open the borders while their neighbor wants to keep them shut and how that will play out over time.  

Regardless, I'm doubtful that most of Europe will be open for a summer cruise season this year.

[TravelinGert]

17 hours ago, wowzz said:

A slight relaxation of lockdown rules is one thing. Allowing 1000s of strangers to leave a ship and wander around a port is totally another.

Anyone who thinks that cruises in Europe will restart before October at the very earliest, is very misguided.

Heck, in the UK,  we're being told to forget about taking holidays in our own country this year,   let alone taking cruise holidays, or letting cruise ships arrive at places like Southampton or Glasgow.  

 

I think it is all down to how the next 4-6 months go. If case counts remain low more things will open. If they skyrocket as fall comes on they might have to shut things down again. We're supposed to do our next cruise the end of October and I'm really not all that hopeful. Mostly just hope we get to do our river cruise next May since they told us when we rescheduled if not there would be no refunds.

[cruisemom42]

On 4/27/2020 at 11:30 PM, clo said:

Here's what I referred to...but it did sound like it could be rescinded.

 

https://nation.com.pk/26-Apr-2020/italy-to-remain-closed-for-tourism-until-end-of-year

 

A rebuttal from Italy:  https://www.thelocal.it/20200429/no-italy-has-not-closed-the-borders-to-tourists-until-2021

[wowzz]

Can I just add something from a European point of view. Take Spain  -  80% or so of the tourists to Spain come from the UK and Germany. In all honesty, it really doesn't matter if the government of Spain says that bars, restaurants etc in holiday destinations can open in July, August or September.  Until the Brits and Germans can freely travel to Spain, hotels and restaurants will not open, because it is not financially viable. 

The same will apply to most other European destinations that rely on foreign tourists. 

As a Brit, I want to go on holiday to Europe - but I can't get insurance,  and therefore I'm not going to book flights or hotels. Cruises are in an even worse predicament, as no European country wants to accept cruuse ships at the moment.

Anyone who thinks cruises to Europe are going to happen this year are being really optimistic.

[cruisemom42]

15 hours ago, wowzz said:

Can I just add something from a European point of view. Take Spain  -  80% or so of the tourists to Spain come from the UK and Germany. In all honesty, it really doesn't matter if the government of Spain says that bars, restaurants etc in holiday destinations can open in July, August or September.  Until the Brits and Germans can freely travel to Spain, hotels and restaurants will not open, because it is not financially viable. 

 

 

Curious about the source of your figure above -- according to what I see reported from their national statistical institute, there were roughly 83,700,000 tourists visiting Spain in 2019, of which the Brits and Germans made up about 29,254,000 -- hardly 80%!  In fact, it's just over a third.

 

https://www.ine.es/jaxiT3/Datos.htm?t=23984#!tabs-tabla

 

 

[wowzz]

13 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Curious about the source of your figure above -- according to what I see reported from their national statistical institute, there were roughly 83,700,000 tourists visiting Spain in 2019, of which the Brits and Germans made up about 29,254,000 -- hardly 80%!  In fact, it's just over a third.

 

https://www.ine.es/jaxiT3/Datos.htm?t=23984#!tabs-tabla

 

 

Sorry, yes you are correct. I had been previously been reading about the Canaries, where the Brits and Germans do make up the majority of visitors, and got my wires crossed.

However, certain package destinations (Benidorm, Torremolinos etc) do rely almost entirely on Brits (and to a lesser extent, Germans) and without those package tourists, the tourism industry in those areas will stay moribund.

More cosmopolitan tourist areas, Barcelona obviously springs to mind, will not suffer quite as much.

[clo]

4 hours ago, wowzz said:

Torremolinos

Some years ago we did a package there. We were hard-pressed to even find any Spanish FOOD. All the visitors wanted their OWN cuisine. We still laugh about it.

[wowzz]

2 hours ago, clo said:

Some years ago we did a package there. We were hard-pressed to even find any Spanish FOOD. All the visitors wanted their OWN cuisine. We still laugh about it.

No different really to the Americans who come to Europe and will only eat in McDonald's and drink coffee in Starbucks. 

 

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, wowzz said:

No different really to the Americans who come to Europe and will only eat in McDonald's and drink coffee in Starbucks. 

 

LOL, we once stopped in a McDonalds in Paris because DW thought she could finally get decaf coffee there. She was told only normal.

[clo]

2 hours ago, wowzz said:

No different really to the Americans who come to Europe and will only eat in McDonald's and drink coffee in Starbucks. 

 

Oh, I SURE hear you 🙂 But in Torremalinos there were German, English restaurants. And not chains. And that's totally fine. But we wouldn't go back there. Give me Barcelona please 🙂

[Charles4515]

LOL, we once stopped in a McDonalds in Paris because DW thought she could finally get decaf coffee there. She was told only normal.

I have stopped in McDonalds in Europe. But for only one reason. To use their restrooms. [emoji3]


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[ilikeanswers]

The first time we visited France we didn't understand how seriously they take their hours of eating so we missed the lunch period and everything was closed😱. McDonalds came to the rescue otherwise we would have to wait hours for dinner time to start. Then there was the time we drove around Jutland and it turns out they take their weekends seriously as every eatery was closed except for McDonalds. I have come to realise it isn't always so bad to have a McDonalds around😉. 

[clo]

1 minute ago, ilikeanswers said:

I have come to realise it isn't always so bad to have a McDonalds around😉. 

We toured a site in Israel (can't for the life of me remember where) that was out in the middle of nowhere. The site had IIRC three maybe four walk-up food places. Everything was crazy expensive. This was just a short stop-for-lunch. We did McD's and it also was stupidly expensive but half the price of the others. Whatever.

[wowzz]

5 hours ago, clo said:

Oh, I SURE hear you 🙂 But in Torremalinos there were German, English restaurants. And not chains. And that's totally fine. But we wouldn't go back there. Give me Barcelona please 🙂

You have to remember that Torremolinos,  Benidorm etc is not really Spain - they are resorts that have developed for the package tourist market. Barcelona is fine, but it's not the place to go for a two week beach holiday if you a young couple with two or three children. 

Barcelona is ok to visit a couple of times,  but personally there are far too many tourists there for me. But then, I lived in a small inland pueblo for quite a few years, where anyone from 10 miles away   was considered a foreigner.

Edited May 3, 2020 by wowzz

[LoisGriffin1]

I live in a popular cruise stop (mainly for British Isles cruises). We have been told not to expect to travel until next year. Cruise ships haven’t been banned officially but anyone arriving on the island has to quarantine for 14 days.
 

We now only have 21 active cases due to closing our borders. While other counties are struggling they will stay closed. I cannot wait to leave the island again but it could be worse. It’s a beautiful place to live and very safe. 
 

There are plenty of cruise ships in Europe. Look at Marine Traffic. Ships are taking turns in docking in Southampton. If the season starts there will be some ships ready at shortish notice. I have my doubts there will be a season though.

[John Bull]

11 hours ago, clo said:

Some years ago we did a package there. We were hard-pressed to even find any Spanish FOOD. All the visitors wanted their OWN cuisine. We still laugh about it.

 

The package-holiday Brit goes to the Spanish costas wanting  Southend or Brighton or Blackpool but with guaranteed sunshine and cheap booze and cigarettes. Doesn't want to miss out on fish & chips or a sunday roast - but will try Spanish dishes like burgers, curries and pizzas . ............ Other northern European visitors like Germans, Dutch & Scandinavians have similar home preferences. As do many Americans worldwide

 

Back on the subject of cruise ships, whilst most have returned to their home countries Allure of the Seas has been spending the whole period mooching around the southern approaches to the Irish Sea, with the occasional foray into Southampton.

Are there no suitable anchorages on the other side of the Pond ?

Or is the fishing better in the Irish Sea?

Or is she hoping for some late-season cruise action ?

 

JB 

[ontheweb]

10 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

 

I have stopped in McDonalds in Europe. But for only one reason. To use their restrooms.


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LOL, that is a good reason. We generally don't need their restrooms since with DW being an art teacher we visit lots of museums and they all have free restrooms.

[clo]

11 hours ago, wowzz said:

Barcelona is ok to visit a couple of times,  but personally there are far too many tourists there for me.

I could gladly live there. For the food alone. 🙂 

[wowzz]

1 hour ago, clo said:

I could gladly live there. For the food alone. 🙂 

Until you have actually lived in Spain, you really have no idea. Dealing with Spanish bureaucracy is a nightmare. 

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

Until you have actually lived in Spain, you really have no idea. Dealing with Spanish bureaucracy is a nightmare. 

 

Which is why I have decided to spend only 3 months a year in Italy after I retire. After speaking to a number of ex-pats, the bureaucracy is soul-crushing...

[navybankerteacher]

15 hours ago, John Bull said:

 

...

 

Are there no suitable anchorages on the other side of the Pond ?

Or is the fishing better in the Irish Sea?

Or is she hoping for some late-season cruise action ?

 

JB 

You should check out cruise port web cams - there are so many ships “parked” up and down the US east coast that all the fish have had been crowded out of the harbors - perhaps explaining why the fishing has improved in the Irish Sea.

[navybankerteacher]

3 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Which is why I have decided to spend only 3 months a year in Italy after I retire. After speaking to a number of ex-pats, the bureaucracy is soul-crushing...

I think  this is endemic across the EU - having heard from relocatees to Germany, France, and the Netherlands.  All great places to visit - fairly long term - but not for permanent relocation.  

Edited May 3, 2020 by navybankerteacher

[clo]

4 hours ago, wowzz said:

Until you have actually lived in Spain, you really have no idea. Dealing with Spanish bureaucracy is a nightmare. 

A couple of examples please?

[ilikeanswers]

9 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

I think  this is endemic across the EU - having heard from relocatees to Germany, France, and the Netherlands.  All great places to visit - fairly long term - but not for permanent relocation.  

 

They would probably say the same thing about the countries we are from😂. The thing about travel is you get to avoid all the annoying everyday life things that locals have to deal with. As travellers we all see countries through rose coloured glasses. 

[John Bull]

14 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Which is why I have decided to spend only 3 months a year in Italy after I retire. After speaking to a number of ex-pats, the bureaucracy is soul-crushing...

 

 

I suspect that's because "visitors" are given leeway.

Beyond the country's mandated period they're regarded as "residents", not "visitors".

 

For example, in most of Europe a visitor can drive a car registered in their own country, use their home driving licence (with / without an IDP) & insurance for a certain period - usually 6 to 12 months. After that they're "residents", have to register their vehicles locally, obtain a local driving licence, etc.

Same applies to multiple other laws and charges, and especially for other nationalities. So whereas over the years folk have happily dealt with a raft of their own country's bureaucracy, they're suddenly met with all of that bureaucracy and more in one hit. And usually in a different language - and even those who who speak conversational Italian will find Italian technical and judicial terms incomprehensible.

 

When a person's declared funds and income are from another country that warrants checking-out .

Can that person support themselves ? Will they be looking to work illegally?

Conversely, are they laundering illicit funds? 

 

Some countries have more bureaucracy than others, some visitors to the US  find that bureaucracy more bewildering than their own.

I've had an extended stay in Spain, though not in Italy. But I suspect that much of the bureaucracy is the same.

 

JB