Orlando Ashford is leaving HAL

[AlanF65]

1 hour ago, pete_coach said:

To something that appeals to more people of all ages or....go under.

Gotta have passengers that spend money on not just the ride on the boat.

 

Shorter more affordable voyages appeal to wider audiences. HAL is in a niche market, how they broaden the appeal and keep longer , more interesting cruises is the challenge

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by AlanF65

[1ANGELCAT]

42 minutes ago, iancal said:

I would not venture to predict what HAL will be like post covid.

 

One thing is for certain.  History is littered with companies and organizations that did not keep up with changing customer demands and preferences or that failed to make the changes necessary to ensure the future of their business.

By your own admission you haven’t cruised HAL for several years and have no plans to do so in the immediate future , yet you continue to post what they need to do. 
Why?

[iancal]

Because HAL is no different than any other cruise line.  There is a reason why we have not selected a HAL cruise in two-three years.  We found more compelling offers at the time.   We do not dislike HAL.  HAL is invariably on our list of the top three choices on any itinerary that we are considering.  But when we see HAL blowing out cruises on certain routes at prices well below most of the competition at the time we begin to wonder why this is.  

 

My comment is not exclusive to HAL.   You only have to see all the changes in the industry over the past few years to see that customer demands and preferences are changing.  We do not select any ship on the basis of the cruise line.  Not loyal to any travel vendor, or any vendor for that matter.   No reason to be in changing markets and new offerings.

 

We have no plans to cruise on any cruise line for the next 18 months or so.  Not even shopping.   We are not willing to risk our health or well being just to get on a cruise ship.

Edited June 5, 2020 by iancal

[rkacruiser]

22 hours ago, DeeDee Groff said:

, Stein Kruse does not have the connection to Arnold Donald that Orlando

Ashford does.....

 

He does have a connection with someone who is a bit more significant:  Mr. Micky Arison.  

[rkacruiser]

22 hours ago, DeeDee Groff said:

, Stein Kruse does not have the connection to Arnold Donald that Orlando

Ashford does.....

 

He does have a connection with someone who is a bit more significant:  Mr. Micky Arison.  

[BarbarianPaul]

5 hours ago, 1ANGELCAT said:

By your own admission you haven’t cruised HAL for several years and have no plans to do so in the immediate future , yet you continue to post what they need to do. 
Why?

We’re four star mariners and have cruised all over the world with them. Our last cruise was in Southeast Asia right before the current situation unfolded. Sadly, it’s going to be our last one for a while due to a number of reasons. First, it was boring. Not enough happening on the ship. No interesting lectures, no enrichment, no production shows. Literally nothing was happening. Second, our ship the Westerdam had cabins that were old, small and below average. Third, the food was also below average and the buffet was bad. A shame, because the dining used to be considerably better.
 

The line is definitely in need of some fresh blood to enhance the shipboard experience. There is nothing fresh or unique about sailing with them anymore. We love that the brand is a part of maritime history, but the only new thing they’ve added in years is the whole music walk experience and for us, it’s not really our thing. 
 

We do like to find a quiet corner on sea days and read and relax, and I’m certainly not asking for belly flop contests in the pool. But the line needs to do more. To us it just feels old and stodgy and stale.

 

 

 

[sail7seas]

2 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

He does have a connection with someone who is a bit more significant:  Mr. Micky Arison.  

 

 

 

Indeed,  that is quite true

[sail7seas]

Anyone know if Mr. Ashford has accepted a position at another cruise line?

 

[BarbarianPaul]

2 hours ago, sail7seas said:

Anyone know if Mr. Ashford has accepted a position at another cruise line?

 

I don’t think you’ll see him “accepting a position” at any other cruise line. Do you honestly think any cruise line would hire him?

[USN59-79]

2 hours ago, BarbarianPaul said:

We’re four star mariners and have cruised all over the world with them. Our last cruise was in Southeast Asia right before the current situation unfolded. Sadly, it’s going to be our last one for a while due to a number of reasons. First, it was boring. Not enough happening on the ship. No interesting lectures, no enrichment, no production shows. Literally nothing was happening. Second, our ship the Westerdam had cabins that were old, small and below average. Third, the food was also below average and the buffet was bad. A shame, because the dining used to be considerably better.
 

The line is definitely in need of some fresh blood to enhance the shipboard experience. There is nothing fresh or unique about sailing with them anymore. We love that the brand is a part of maritime history, but the only new thing they’ve added in years is the whole music walk experience and for us, it’s not really our thing. 
 

We do like to find a quiet corner on sea days and read and relax, and I’m certainly not asking for belly flop contests in the pool. But the line needs to do more. To us it just feels old and stodgy and stale.

 

 

 

Interesting how some people feel so different about a similar experience.  We are 5-star mariners and did two weeks on the Westerdam 7-21 December.  We enjoyed it so much that we signed up for 6 weeks more starting 31 January.  The only real gripe I had was that they removed the library.  We enjoyed the stage shows by the Westerdam singers and dancers although we did have one meal in the Pinnacle that was less than perfect.  Of course the 31 January cruise ended early in Cambodia, but I felt we were well cared for by HAL and especially Orlando Ashford.  He flew to Cambodia and arranged for everyone to fly home at HAL's expense.  I filed an expense report with HAL after I got home for airline fees, meals and even laundry expenses in Cambodia and was reimbursed to the last penny.  We had a balcony cabin on both cruises and it was clean and everything worked, so we were satisfied and will return to the Westerdam if the right agenda is available.

[BarbarianPaul]

9 hours ago, USN59-79 said:

Interesting how some people feel so different about a similar experience.  We are 5-star mariners and did two weeks on the Westerdam 7-21 December.  We enjoyed it so much that we signed up for 6 weeks more starting 31 January.  The only real gripe I had was that they removed the library.  We enjoyed the stage shows by the Westerdam singers and dancers although we did have one meal in the Pinnacle that was less than perfect.  Of course the 31 January cruise ended early in Cambodia, but I felt we were well cared for by HAL and especially Orlando Ashford.  He flew to Cambodia and arranged for everyone to fly home at HAL's expense.  I filed an expense report with HAL after I got home for airline fees, meals and even laundry expenses in Cambodia and was reimbursed to the last penny.  We had a balcony cabin on both cruises and it was clean and everything worked, so we were satisfied and will return to the Westerdam if the right agenda is available.

We got off in Hong Kong just as you guys were getting on! Just out of curiosity, did you really enjoy cruising aimlessly for almost two weeks in the South China Sea, without visiting a single port, only to finally end up in Sihanoukville? I don’t mean to be confrontational, I just remember feeling distinctly uncomfortable disembarking in Hong Kong, and wondering why the ship was picking up new passengers. Passengers who were continuing on from our cruise were afraid to get off the ship.

 

Also, the Westerdam had just gone through a dry dock when we boarded in Singapore, and I was totally surprised that they hadn’t touched the cabins, and appeared to have done minimal to nonexistent work on the passenger areas. Yes, the cabins were clean and everything worked, but they also appeared to have been stuck in 25 year old time warp. 

[USN59-79]

50 minutes ago, BarbarianPaul said:

We got off in Hong Kong just as you guys were getting on! Just out of curiosity, did you really enjoy cruising aimlessly for almost two weeks in the South China Sea, without visiting a single port, only to finally end up in Sihanoukville? I don’t mean to be confrontational, I just remember feeling distinctly uncomfortable disembarking in Hong Kong, and wondering why the ship was picking up new passengers. Passengers who were continuing on from our cruise were afraid to get off the ship.

 

Also, the Westerdam had just gone through a dry dock when we boarded in Singapore, and I was totally surprised that they hadn’t touched the cabins, and appeared to have done minimal to nonexistent work on the passenger areas. Yes, the cabins were clean and everything worked, but they also appeared to have been stuck in 25 year old time warp. 

Well, it wasn't aimlessly.  We did stop for a day at Kaohsiung, Taiwan which was enjoyable as my DW is from Taipei.  The first port was to be Manila, but we were turned away when we were half way there.  I had followed the South China Post a couple of weeks before online to learn about conditions in HK.  When we arrived on 31 January there were about ten coronavirus cases in a population of 7 million, so we didn't feel unsafe there.  We did buy about 40 masks at home before we left, though.  We enjoyed our day in Hong Kong, having lunch at a restaurant that is famous for roast goose.  The Westerdam was built in 2004.  We were on her in the Baltic that year.  I will accept that I have had more enjoyable cruises.  Kind of reminds me about what they used to say about the Navy:  "Its not a job, its an adventure".

[BarbarianPaul]

1 hour ago, USN59-79 said:

Well, it wasn't aimlessly.  We did stop for a day at Kaohsiung, Taiwan which was enjoyable as my DW is from Taipei.  The first port was to be Manila, but we were turned away when we were half way there.  I had followed the South China Post a couple of weeks before online to learn about conditions in HK.  When we arrived on 31 January there were about ten coronavirus cases in a population of 7 million, so we didn't feel unsafe there.  We did buy about 40 masks at home before we left, though.  We enjoyed our day in Hong Kong, having lunch at a restaurant that is famous for roast goose.  The Westerdam was built in 2004.  We were on her in the Baltic that year.  I will accept that I have had more enjoyable cruises.  Kind of reminds me about what they used to say about the Navy:  "Its not a job, its an adventure".

Well you did have an adventure! Don’t think your statistics are quite right. On Jan 21 Hong Kong was estimated to have about 1700 cases. When we got off the Westerdam the day you got on, the city was under a state of emergency and all tourist sites were closed.

Of course hindsight is 20/20, but I think HA, and Orlando Ashford, should have cancelled your cruise. 

[cruisemom42]

23 minutes ago, BarbarianPaul said:

Well you did have an adventure! Don’t think your statistics are quite right. On Jan 21 Hong Kong was estimated to have about 1700 cases. When we got off the Westerdam the day you got on, the city was under a state of emergency and all tourist sites were closed.

Of course hindsight is 20/20, but I think HA, and Orlando Ashford, should have cancelled your cruise. 

 

Not sure where you are getting that figure from. According to the official list of reported cases from Hong Kong's own health authority, there were 13 confirmed cases on January 31. 

 

https://www.chp.gov.hk/files/pdf/local_situation_covid19_en.pdf.  (See starting p. 7)

 

I understand that an "estimated" number is going to be higher, but am curious what such a high number is based on.

 

 

 

 

[USN59-79]

26 minutes ago, BarbarianPaul said:

Well you did have an adventure! Don’t think your statistics are quite right. On Jan 21 Hong Kong was estimated to have about 1700 cases. When we got off the Westerdam the day you got on, the city was under a state of emergency and all tourist sites were closed.

Of course hindsight is 20/20, but I think HA, and Orlando Ashford, should have cancelled your cruise. 

Well, we saw things differently.  I was wrong about the number of cases on 31 January.  It was 13, not 10.  I had read the South China Post the day before we left home and the number was 10.  As of today, 6 June, Hong Kong has had  a total of 1106 confirmed cases, with 4 deaths.  Check the timeline for Hong Kong COVID cases in Wikipedia.  Much less than my State of Washington.  A few days before we left home HAL had announced that the itinerary had been changed, and we would skip China ports and cruise to Japan instead.  I thought it was a better itinerary, but of course with the Diamond Princess, Japan also closed its ports, then the rest of Asia.  

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Not sure where you are getting that figure from. According to the official list of reported cases from Hong Kong's own health authority, there were 13 confirmed cases on January 31. 

 

https://www.chp.gov.hk/files/pdf/local_situation_covid19_en.pdf.  (See starting p. 7)

 

I understand that an "estimated" number is going to be higher, but am curious what such a high number is based on.

 

 

 

 

13 confirmed cases. I'll bet that figure is never quoted by the lawyers suing cruise lines for sailings that we now know should not have gone. 13 hardly sounds like a world wide pandemic. 

[BarbarianPaul]

4 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Not sure where you are getting that figure from. According to the official list of reported cases from Hong Kong's own health authority, there were 13 confirmed cases on January 31. 

 

https://www.chp.gov.hk/files/pdf/local_situation_covid19_en.pdf.  (See starting p. 7)

 

I understand that an "estimated" number is going to be higher, but am curious what such a high number is based on.

 

 

 

 

My apologies...I honestly can’t find the article I read this morning to substantiate that estimated number. And I looked! But, whatever it was, it was larger of course than the number 13 released by the government.
For those looking to minimize the significance of Hong Kong’s situation in January, when we disembarked the city was under an official state of emergency, with all the government run tourist sites closed. The Westerdam was going to do an overnight in Hong Kong for our final night, but instead we wound up staying an extra day in Halong Bay.

[rkacruiser]

19 hours ago, BarbarianPaul said:

I don’t think you’ll see him “accepting a position” at any other cruise line. Do you honestly think any cruise line would hire him?

 

Another cruise line hiring him in the near future?  Doubtful.  But, as I have stated before, why was he hired by HAL?  With his Human Relations background, what was so attractive about that caused him to be hired?  Was there a Human Relations issue within the Company that required attention?  

 

Given the large furloughs now instituted, having such a CEO with a HR background at the helm might seem for some to be insensitive.  If there was a HR issue and he helped to resolve such, it would have been time for him to seek employment elsewhere anyway.   

[Himself]

I would doubt he would get another Cruise line job.   Personally, I think the top spot should go to a person who knows the working of a cruise line, rather tha an outsider.

[AtlantaCruiser72]

One thing not being discussed is the fact that Rick Meadows, the co-equal to Mr Ashford, has left (or been let go from) Seabourn at the same time after 35 years with Carnival. I think this is a CLEAR indication that Carnival Corp intend to flatten and streamline the management structure of HAL/Seabourn into a more cohesive, integrated operation with two customer facing brands. I expect Stein Kruse to helm both brands for the near term. The two combined would still be smaller than say Princess, which I think will remain separate operationally but within the HAL group.

 

Princess has also seen several long time employees have their positions eliminated , most notably EVP Rai Caluori who was with the company for 35 years. I would expect more "flattening" (elimination) of management positions across ALL the Carnival brands in the next few months in an effort to reduce costs and duplication/overlap of responsibilities. 

Edited June 7, 2020 by AtlantaCruiser72

[USN59-79]

5 hours ago, BarbarianPaul said:

My apologies...I honestly can’t find the article I read this morning to substantiate that estimated number. And I looked! But, whatever it was, it was larger of course than the number 13 released by the government.
For those looking to minimize the significance of Hong Kong’s situation in January, when we disembarked the city was under an official state of emergency, with all the government run tourist sites closed. The Westerdam was going to do an overnight in Hong Kong for our final night, but instead we wound up staying an extra day in Halong Bay.

It is not a matter of minimizing the situation, but a matter of people panicking over the situation and saying people should resign because they didn't immediately cancel that cruise.  Look at the data that CruiseMom provided and you will see that the vast majority of Hong Kong's cases came from Western tourists; i.e. 408 from UK, 86 from USA, 47 from France, but only 20 from Mainland China.  So this was not a Hong Kong problem, but a problem that Hong Kong handled very well.  My state of Washington has 23,442 positive cases with 1153 deaths as of today.  Hong Kong has had 1106 positive cases with 4 deaths as of today.  So where is the state of emergency?

[bmwman]

So here is a left field idea Andrew Stuart from NCL one of the best CEO out there and known as Mr Cruise!!! He is universally liked and credited with NCL renaissance. Yes different concept but an expert in the industry with many followers. And before anyone comments were are both NCL and HAL fans!!!

Edited June 7, 2020 by bmwman

[sail7seas]

Any reason to think he has any notion of leaving NCL in the near future?

 

[sail7seas]

After having sailed HAL and dozens dozens of cruises and loving hem all. After my DH passed, good friends with whom we had sailed, invited me to sail NCL with them.  I accepted, sailed NCL Dawn and that cruise exceeded my expectations.  Given similar circumstances, I would sail  NCL again. 

[Himself]

Now that Orlando Ashford has left HAL,  Who is calling the shots?  Who is making the decisions?