Carnival Corp to retire 6 ships in next 90 days

[ProgRockCruiser]

13 hours ago, DryCreek said:

But I wasn't postulating that they would pick up in one spot and drop off at another.

I do understand how closed-loop cruises work.

Bahamas Paradise Cruises offers a package where they drop you off for a number of days at one of their ports of call.  You spend time ashore at a package hotel.  Then you board the ship and come home.

Hmm, I learned something new today!  I had no idea that they did this - I am actually a bit surprised they are allowed, but it obviously is.

 

Well then, yeah, in theory someone could do the route you suggested.  Although dropping off US pax for multi-day shore excursions in the US might lend it self to abusing the system, with people disappearing "home" a bit more easily than they can from the Bahamas.

[jimbo5544]

19 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

Hmm, I learned something new today!  I had no idea that they did this - I am actually a bit surprised they are allowed, but it obviously is.

 

Well then, yeah, in theory someone could do the route you suggested.  Although dropping off US pax for multi-day shore excursions in the US might lend it self to abusing the system, with people disappearing "home" a bit more easily than they can from the Bahamas.

It is common practice in Europe, but untenable in US

[DryCreek]

10 hours ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

Hmm, I learned something new today!  I had no idea that they did this - I am actually a bit surprised they are allowed, but it obviously is.

 

Well then, yeah, in theory someone could do the route you suggested.  Although dropping off US pax for multi-day shore excursions in the US might lend it self to abusing the system, with people disappearing "home" a bit more easily than they can from the Bahamas.

I wasn't suggesting that they did hotel packages on US soil - they only offer packages in the Grand Bahamas and Nassau.

[DryCreek]

20 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

 

They could do cruises from Mobile to San Juan via the Bahamas and then from San Juan to Palm Beach via the Bahamas. As long as no one bypasses San Juan, they should be okay.

 

If demand from Mobil is not sufficient for frequently sailings, they could do it once a month or so.

 

They don't pretend to be a cruise line for everyone.

I'm curious as to why they needed to stop in San Juan?

That is currently not a part of their itinerary as I read it.

[DryCreek]

22 hours ago, tidecat said:

It's going to be hard, though, competing with the major lines just down I-10 in New Orleans.

Aha!  That's exactly the type of critical thinking I was looking for.

I never really thought about how close Nawlins was to Mobile.  I just looked at it on a map - it's a shorter distance that I drive to Galveston from Central Texas.

You are right, they would have to really offer a unique package at an excellent price point to be able to stat a new itinerary out of Mobile.

[BlerkOne]

19 minutes ago, DryCreek said:

I'm curious as to why they needed to stop in San Juan?

That is currently not a part of their itinerary as I read it.

 

Just an option if they are going to pick up passengers in Mobile (or New Orleans or Galveston) and disembark them in Florida (or pick them up in San Juan on the way back). The ship has to either do a closed loop cruise, or stop in San Juan to bypass the antiquated US cabotage laws.

[DryCreek]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

 

Just an option if they are going to pick up passengers in Mobile (or New Orleans or Galveston) and disembark them in Florida (or pick them up in San Juan on the way back). The ship has to either do a closed loop cruise, or stop in San Juan to bypass the antiquated US cabotage laws.

San Juan Puerto Rico?

That's a U.S. Territory and doesn't count as a "distant foreign port", yet Nassau or Freeport in the Grand Bahamas does.

They still would not be able to disembark a Mobile passenger in Florida or SJ PR, nor would they be able to transport Fla passengers to Mobile without violating the PVSA, as I recall.  The closed-loop cruise I proposed would be from Mobile to Nassau, all guests would then disembark for hotels booked through a package deal.  It would be a four day stay.  Rather than have the ship sit idle in port, it would immediately go to Pam Beach and pick up passengers for one of their regular two-day cruises.  At the end of the two day cruise, all Palm Beach cruise-only passengers would depart, and they would pick up a load of passengers booked for cruise-stay in Nassau.  When the reach Nassau, all Palm Beach passengers disembark and go to hotels.  The passengers from Mobile, having spent four days ashore, reboard and return to Mobile.

Closed-loop cruise completed from two different homeports.  Never had I envisioned that one would be able to board at one port and finish at another (U.S.) port.

 

BPCL runs two-day cruises out of Palm Beach.  It takes a day each way to the two ports of call that they visit (depends on ship).  Then, it is one day back.  I was trying to make it possible for them to offer similar packages out of Mobile, but it is a two-day trip in either direction.  That requires some changes to be made in schedules. Of course if they really did pick up another ship, then they can run whatever schedule fits their needs out of a new home port.

[BlerkOne]

Puerto Rico has an exemption from PVSA. A ship from the mainland can disembark passengers in Puerto Rico. I threw it out as an option.

 

46 U.S.C. § 55104- Transportation of Passengers between Puerto Rico and Other Ports in the United StatesA vessel that is not qualified to engage in the coastwise trade may transport passengers between a port in Puerto Rico and another port in the United States until such a time as a finding is made that a qualified U.S.-flag passenger vessel is available for such service.

[Essiesmom]

2 hours ago, DryCreek said:

San Juan Puerto Rico?

That's a U.S. Territory and doesn't count as a "distant foreign port", yet Nassau or Freeport in the Grand Bahamas does.

They still would not be able to disembark a Mobile passenger in Florida or SJ PR, nor would they be able to transport Fla passengers to Mobile without violating the PVSA, as I recall.  The closed-loop cruise I proposed would be from Mobile to Nassau, all guests would then disembark for hotels booked through a package deal.  It would be a four day stay.  Rather than have the ship sit idle in port, it would immediately go to Pam Beach and pick up passengers for one of their regular two-day cruises.  At the end of the two day cruise, all Palm Beach cruise-only passengers would depart, and they would pick up a load of passengers booked for cruise-stay in Nassau.  When the reach Nassau, all Palm Beach passengers disembark and go to hotels.  The passengers from Mobile, having spent four days ashore, reboard and return to Mobile.

Closed-loop cruise completed from two different homeports.  Never had I envisioned that one would be able to board at one port and finish at another (U.S.) port.

 

BPCL runs two-day cruises out of Palm Beach.  It takes a day each way to the two ports of call that they visit (depends on ship).  Then, it is one day back.  I was trying to make it possible for them to offer similar packages out of Mobile, but it is a two-day trip in either direction.  That requires some changes to be made in schedules. Of course if they really did pick up another ship, then they can run whatever schedule fits their needs out of a new home port.

Uh oh.  You are mistaken. The Bahamas ports do not count as ‘distant’ foreign ports, although they do count as foreign ports for closed loop Cruises.  The distant foreign ports are the ABC islands and any port on the continent of South America.  EM

[BlerkOne]

27 minutes ago, Essiesmom said:

Uh oh.  You are mistaken. The Bahamas ports do not count as ‘distant’ foreign ports, although they do count as foreign ports for closed loop Cruises.  The distant foreign ports are the ABC islands and any port on the continent of South America.  EM

 

Distant foreign port is simplified anything in another hemisphere but for Florida or the Gulf Coast what you list are what makes sense.

 

As I think about it, Puerto Rico has casinos, and I think running what amounts to ferries from the mainland to Puerto Rico wouldn't require a port stop anywhere else.

[DryCreek]

That's what I like about this forum, you can learn stuff without being called a dummy.

 

I guess that I used the terminology "distant foreign port" incorrectly.  I was just proposing closed-loop cruises from Mobile, but with a different carrier that has established ports o' call in two "foreign" ports.  I would hate to see Carnival abandon a home port, but if they did, it would be great if another upstart cruise line could fill the void - and be successful.

 

Hmmmm Puerto Rico has an exemption.  That's very interesting.  Heck, I'd go for a cruise to PR and back, if they offered one.  Just think, no one to verbally punish you if you don't have a passport.  

 

ETA - Oh yeah, I forgot to ask - why is it that a Fantasy-class ship is needed to service Mobile?  From looking at the satellite view maps, the cruise terminal appears to be south of the I-10 bridge, and right on the Mobile River.  Draft?  Keep in mind that they repaired the Triumph there (now Sun something).  Couldn't a ship of that class replace an F-Class one?

Edited July 23, 2020 by DryCreek
see ETA

[ch09]

2 hours ago, DryCreek said:

That's what I like about this forum, you can learn stuff without being called a dummy.

 

I guess that I used the terminology "distant foreign port" incorrectly.  I was just proposing closed-loop cruises from Mobile, but with a different carrier that has established ports o' call in two "foreign" ports.  I would hate to see Carnival abandon a home port, but if they did, it would be great if another upstart cruise line could fill the void - and be successful.

 

Hmmmm Puerto Rico has an exemption.  That's very interesting.  Heck, I'd go for a cruise to PR and back, if they offered one.  Just think, no one to verbally punish you if you don't have a passport.  

 

ETA - Oh yeah, I forgot to ask - why is it that a Fantasy-class ship is needed to service Mobile?  From looking at the satellite view maps, the cruise terminal appears to be south of the I-10 bridge, and right on the Mobile River.  Draft?  Keep in mind that they repaired the Triumph there (now Sun something).  Couldn't a ship of that class replace an F-Class one?

While Mobile can dock bigger ships, the terminal was originally built to accommodate the Holiday. Once Fantasy class ships came to Mobile, parking has been an ongoing issue at the terminal. The terminal would need to be expanded to do that. The City of Mobile is also in debt on the current one and made a big deal when Carnival pulled out the first time as no money was coming in to pay the debts for it.

Edited July 23, 2020 by ch09

[xDisconnections]

1 hour ago, ch09 said:

While Mobile can dock bigger ships, the terminal was originally built to accommodate the Holiday. Once Fantasy class ships came to Mobile, parking has been an ongoing issue at the terminal. The terminal would need to be expanded to do that. The City of Mobile is also in debt on the current one and made a big deal when Carnival pulled out the first time as no money was coming in to pay the debts for it.

Let’s not forget the terminal becoming a wedding reception venue to recuperate some revenue.

[KmomChicago]

On 6/20/2020 at 8:59 PM, KmomChicago said:

Okay, we obviously need more opinions on whether Fantasy class is being targeted.

 

First off, balconies are a big deal.  Second, the number of ships serving any particular port is a definite concern.  Third, for certain ports, ship size matters.

 

I agree with those who think at least one or two Fantasy Class ships will go early in this process.  Some of them have no balconies except for their suites and junior suites, and those rooms are not comparable to the best suites on newer ships.  In the interview he said more could go after the initial six, so again I would think this class is under consideration for downsizing.

 

Paradise and Elation are the newest and most updated of the class, so I think they'll hang on to those, and with Spirit class,  they can keep most of their current small ports. Some ports with a Fantasy class ship, like San Juan, can easily handle the big boats. A larger, newer ship from there might be more attractive for Southern itineraries.

 

I agree that redundancy like Imagination and Inspiration both doing the same short runs from Long Beach may be a thing of the past.  It may be that Europe comes off the table for Carnival, and then maybe a single larger ship handles the 3/4 night party cruises and the old ships are retired.  Similarly, Miami and Ft. Lauderdale have newer Carnival ships and I question whether there will be enough demand in that area to keep Sensation.

 

Paradise is already in Tampa, Elation could go to Jacksonville, Pride is already in Baltimore. Not sure which other ports have size limits.  But that's my 2 cents. I think if you are a Fantasy class ship, your demise is directly linked to the number of balconies and a shuffle of the survivors will cover existing routes.

 

 

 

Almost like I know what I am talking about. Almost like I always knew, all along. 

[DryCreek]

21 hours ago, ch09 said:

While Mobile can dock bigger ships, the terminal was originally built to accommodate the Holiday. Once Fantasy class ships came to Mobile, parking has been an ongoing issue at the terminal. The terminal would need to be expanded to do that. The City of Mobile is also in debt on the current one and made a big deal when Carnival pulled out the first time as no money was coming in to pay the debts for it.

Well, isn't that a coincidence?  The MS Grand Grand Celebration was the last ship built in the Carnival Holiday class.  Why, she'd fit right in.

 

But, I'm only partially kidding.

[tidecat]

With yesterday's announcement, Carnival is at least two steps closer to its announced target of 13 divestitures:

 

Carnival Fantasy - scrap

Carnival Inspiration - scrap

Costa Victoria - scrap

Costa neoRomantica - Celestyal

(HAL) Amsterdam - Fred. Olsen

(HAL) Maasdam - unknown

(HAL) Rotterdam - Fred. Olsen

(HAL) Veendam - unknown

(P&O UK) Oceana - unknown

 

If Fascination and Imagination are sold that will make 11 of 13.

[ch09]

6 hours ago, tidecat said:

With yesterday's announcement, Carnival is at least two steps closer to its announced target of 13 divestitures:

 

Carnival Fantasy - scrap

Carnival Inspiration - scrap

Costa Victoria - scrap

Costa neoRomantica - Celestyal

(HAL) Amsterdam - Fred. Olsen

(HAL) Maasdam - unknown

(HAL) Rotterdam - Fred. Olsen

(HAL) Veendam - unknown

(P&O UK) Oceana - unknown

 

If Fascination and Imagination are sold that will make 11 of 13.

Costa Mediterraneanea - sold to CSCC.

Pacific Jewel - was CMV prior to administration.

Pacific Aria -  was CMV prior to administration.

That leaves one more to be announced.

 

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by ch09

[drsel]

I posted a larger list earlier

[tidecat]

3 hours ago, ch09 said:

Costa Mediterraneanea - sold to CSCC.

Pacific Jewel - was CMV prior to administration.

Pacific Aria -  was CMV prior to administration.

That leaves one more to be announced.

 

 

I didn't think those were included in the 13, as those were all supposed to happen within 90 days.

[ch09]

1 hour ago, tidecat said:

I didn't think those were included in the 13, as those were all supposed to happen within 90 days.

Arnold Donald said they accelerated their exits early.

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

I got the cancellation email this morning for my Carnival Inspiration sailing in October. So it's finally official. Interestingly, on the Carnival website it no longer lists sailings for Carnival Imagination either which was doing the same 3/4-night sailings from Long Beach. So it appears Imagination is going bye bye as well. Only remaining sailing from Long Bach is 7-nt Carnival Panorama plus the 4/5-nt San Diego sailings of Carnival Miracle.

Edited July 24, 2020 by KINGBOBOFTHENORTH

[embarkation75]

21 minutes ago, KINGBOBOFTHENORTH said:

I got the cancellation email this morning for my Carnival Inspiration sailing in October. So it's finally official. Interestingly, on the Carnival website it no longer lists sailings for Carnival Imagination either which was doing the same 3/4-night sailings from Long Beach. So it appears Imagination is going bye bye as well. Only remaining sailing from Long Bach is 7-nt Carnival Panorama plus the 4/5-nt San Diego sailings of Carnival Miracle.

 

I take it from your post you didn't read the press release from Carnival yesterday as both the Inspiration (sold) and Imagination (long term storage) are gone from Long Beach effective immediately. They are being replaced by the Radiance (although not arriving until April 2021) meaning the earliest the 3-4 day cruises will be back at Long Beach is next spring...

 

https://carnival-news.com/2020/07/23/carnival-cruise-line-announces-updates-to-fleet-plan/?source=122648

Edited July 24, 2020 by embarkation75

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

1 hour ago, embarkation75 said:

 

I take it from your post you didn't read the press release from Carnival yesterday as both the Inspiration (sold) and Imagination (long term storage) are gone from Long Beach effective immediately. They are being replaced by the Radiance (although not arriving until April 2021) meaning the earliest the 3-4 day cruises will be back at Long Beach is next spring...

 

https://carnival-news.com/2020/07/23/carnival-cruise-line-announces-updates-to-fleet-plan/?source=122648

Thanks for the link; I indeed had not seen that. Good to know!

[sealynx]

Just a quick wrap up. Carnival announced 13 ships to leave the fleet. So far they've named: Costa Mediteranea, Costa Atlantica, Pacific Area, Pacific Dawn, Costa Victoria, Costa neoRomantica, Oceana, Maasdam, Veendam, Rotterdam, Amsterdam, Fantasy and Inspiration. So, I guess we won't be getting any more bad news. That is good news as well, isn't it?

[drsel]

No news is good news nowadays