Are you afraid of RCI going belly up?

[xpcdoojk]

1 hour ago, BirdTravels said:

Reopening is not causing the spikes. The blatant disregard of mask and social distancing is causing the spikes. A couple of weeks ago, we were at a reopened resort. While people were constantly reminded to wear masks, most didn't. And those "best buddies" that were doing virtual happy hours for the past three months were drunk and hugging each other, sharing whatever they brought with themselves. It was pathetic. 

 

RCI won't go "belly-up". But how fast they reopen will be totally dependent upon the passengers on the initial cruises. And if they behave like those on our flights and at the resort, then opening will be veeeerrrrryyy slow. 

 

So many virologists on the internet

 

jc

[Trevoli]

No, at the VERY worst, they would experience a restructuring.   

[baldilocks]

24 minutes ago, Trevoli said:

No, at the VERY worst, they would experience a restructuring.   

 

That is what Chapter 11 bankruptcy does...it restructures. 

[JAMESCC]

 
That is what Chapter 11 bankruptcy does...it restructures. 

I think what he meant was bankruptcy as in out of business which is what most people think when they hear bankruptcy. I think he was just trying to say they wouldn't go under.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[Trevoli]

What I meant was, RCI isn’t going “belly up”, as in “out of business”.    If things got really bad, financially, they would file bankruptcy/chapter 11/ restructure.    They wouldn’t cease to exist.   

[grandgeezer]

If you think they will eventually file for bankruptcy, take the refund, not the fcc. In bankruptcy, fcc is considered Unsecured debt and is paid off after all secured debt is. You could end up with penny’s on the dollar, or nothing.

[baldilocks]

A new wrinkle in RCI finances. Information has just been released that the German company Wirecard cannot explain why $2.1 billion dollars is missing from their accounts. Wirecard is the company that RCI uses to pay their employees. Almost all the employees have Wirecard accounts, including savings accounts. I'm sure that if this gets nasty, RCI is going to be on the hook for some dollar amount as they are the ones that hired Wirecard. Note: Carnival does not use Wirecard.

[baldilocks]

I forgot to list the source for the above Wirecard post: The Miami Herald, June19

[ONECRUISER]

26 minutes ago, baldilocks said:

I forgot to list the source for the above Wirecard post: The Miami Herald, June19

It's on first Post, topic of this Thread

[CORKY_Q]

20 hours ago, Merion_Mom said:

^^^^^

[soloadventurer]

Its my understanding a number of financial institutions are getting nervous about the lack of cash coming into RC at present. I believe any further extensions to sail beyond October could be the trigger for investors to start looking for their money or assets. 
 

Get the popcorn 🍿Out  it’s going to be a bumpy ride 

[soloadventurer]

And it doesn’t get any better over 4,000 new virus cases in Florida 

[Motorman23]

18 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

Reopening is not causing the spikes. The blatant disregard of mask and social distancing is causing the spikes. A couple of weeks ago, we were at a reopened resort. While people were constantly reminded to wear masks, most didn't. And those "best buddies" that were doing virtual happy hours for the past three months were drunk and hugging each other, sharing whatever they brought with themselves. It was pathetic. 

 

RCI won't go "belly-up". But how fast they reopen will be totally dependent upon the passengers on the initial cruises. And if they behave like those on our flights and at the resort, then opening will be veeeerrrrryyy slow. 

You are 100% correct. It’s the me, me, me philosophy about wearing masks. Las Vegas may be closing casinos because employee infection rates are rising and guests won’t wear masks. Here in NY we were dropping to all time lows until last week when bars reopened in upstate and no one stopped the over crowding and lack of masks at the bars. Gov Coumo Was not happy and may be shutting down the bars down if they don’t get on board. Until we get a vaccine or 100% compliance with masks and distancing the virus will rule.

Edited June 20, 2020 by Motorman23

[B-52]

18 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

Reopening is not causing the spikes. The blatant disregard of mask and social distancing is causing the spikes. A couple of weeks ago, we were at a reopened resort. While people were constantly reminded to wear masks, most didn't. And those "best buddies" that were doing virtual happy hours for the past three months were drunk and hugging each other, sharing whatever they brought with themselves. It was pathetic. 

 

RCI won't go "belly-up". But how fast they reopen will be totally dependent upon the passengers on the initial cruises. And if they behave like those on our flights and at the resort, then opening will be veeeerrrrryyy slow. 

By now people should know the precautions, etc...If people want to get sick, let them get sick. We are not going to stop it.
They will get sick, medical help (maybe) and recover with ant-bodies.
Also, some of the higher numbers because there is more testing being done.

Edited June 20, 2020 by B-52

[BND]

3 hours ago, baldilocks said:

A new wrinkle in RCI finances. Information has just been released that the German company Wirecard cannot explain why $2.1 billion dollars is missing from their accounts. Wirecard is the company that RCI uses to pay their employees. Almost all the employees have Wirecard accounts, including savings accounts. I'm sure that if this gets nasty, RCI is going to be on the hook for some dollar amount as they are the ones that hired Wirecard. Note: Carnival does not use Wirecard.

That is entirely Wirecard's issue.  Companies that do that kind of work are insured to protect their clients.  It doesn't matter that RCI hired them. 

[Seville2Cabo]

2 hours ago, soloadventurer said:

Its my understanding a number of financial institutions are getting nervous about the lack of cash coming into RC at present. I believe any further extensions to sail beyond October could be the trigger for investors to start looking for their money or assets. 
 

Get the popcorn 🍿Out  it’s going to be a bumpy ride 

Wondering where you heard this?  A Financial lender needs to be careful and they will work with RC since the collateral is a fleet of cruise ships.  Don’t think they want to own them right now either.  It’s now like they can reposes a car and put it back on the lot to sell again.  And the ships probably will not get a lot at auction if they go chapter 7. 

[Trevoli]

On 6/20/2020 at 11:39 AM, B-52 said:

By now people should know the precautions, etc...If people want to get sick, let them get sick. We are not going to stop it.
They will get sick, medical help (maybe) and recover with ant-bodies.
Also, some of the higher numbers because there is more testing being done.

Let them get sick...?   Clearly, you haven’t been adversely impacted by covid/quarantine. Obviously, more testing results in more positives, but that’s not the point.  The point is, why are we still getting so many positives in the first place?  It’s because selfish, arrogant people think they are indestructible and the rules don’t apply to them.   As for those recovering with antibodies, there hasn’t been enough testing to determine a cause/effect, AND, for those that DO have antibodies, it is not known for how long.    30 days?  60 days?  We simply don’t know.   What we DO know, is that these selfish people are prolonging the mask and social distancing for EVERYONE, not to mention crippling our economy.   Sweden took an interesting approach.  They essentially had a country-wide measles party.  And they are now regretting it big time.   And the doofus in Brazil ought to be charged with murder.   

[Merion_Mom]

On 6/20/2020 at 2:39 PM, B-52 said:

By now people should know the precautions, etc...If people want to get sick, let them get sick. We are not going to stop it.
They will get sick, medical help (maybe) and recover with ant-bodies.
Also, some of the higher numbers because there is more testing being done.

 

 

[Milwaukee Eight]

35 minutes ago, Trevoli said:

Let them get sick...?   Clearly, you haven’t been adversely impacted by covid/quarantine. Obviously, more testing results in more positives, but that’s not the point.  The point is, why are we still getting so many positives in the first place?  It’s because selfish, arrogant people think they are indestructible and the rules don’t apply to them.   As for those recovering with antibodies, there hasn’t been enough testing to determine a cause/effect, AND, for those that DO have antibodies, it is not known for how long.    30 days?  60 days?  We simply don’t know.   What we DO know, is that these selfish people are prolonging the mask and social distancing for EVERYONE, not to mention crippling our economy.   Sweden took an interesting approach.  They essentially had a country-wide measles party.  And they are now regretting it big time.   And the doofus in Brazil ought to be charged with murder.   

It’s never been about testing or number positive. There is no cure for CV19. Its ALL ABOUT overrunning the healthcare system. One can stay quarantine forever and CV19 will not go away. Currently, the healthcare system is not being overrun. There is some isolated cases where a couple of staff at hospital have suggested their hospital had no beds but was debunked by others. If they run out of beds, and can’t find others locations with beds, then we have a problem. A very low percentage of positive require hospitalization. 
 

M8

[Trevoli]

15 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

It’s never been about testing or number positive. There is no cure for CV19. Its ALL ABOUT overrunning the healthcare system. One can stay quarantine forever and CV19 will not go away. Currently, the healthcare system is not being overrun. There is some isolated cases where a couple of staff at hospital have suggested their hospital had no beds but was debunked by others. If they run out of beds, and can’t find others locations with beds, then we have a problem. A very low percentage of positive require hospitalization. 
 

M8

I completely agree with most of what you said.  I 100% agree that we will not be out of the woods on this virus until there is a vaccine.   I desperately hope that when a vaccine is developed, it is rolled out appropriately, and NOT like testing was rolled out. 
 

I think to view hospitals not being overrun with cases is NOT a way to judge success.   Widespread testing that doesn’t result in spikes of cases, is how you succeed.   Successfully and safely reopening the economy is how you succeed.   

[Milwaukee Eight]

9 minutes ago, Trevoli said:

I think to view hospitals not being overrun with cases is NOT a way to judge success.   Widespread testing that doesn’t result in spikes of cases, is how you succeed.   Successfully and safely reopening the economy is how you succeed.

The economy must be open. Things will get much worse after the Government unemployment benefits go away in July. We have people here getting so much more money now and avoid going back to work. 
 

I am a firm believer that hospitalizations and ICU cases are very important. More so than the numbers testing positive. 
 

M8

[Trevoli]

1 minute ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

The economy must be open. Things will get much worse after the Government unemployment benefits go away in July. We have people here getting so much more money now and avoid going back to work. 
 

I am a firm believer that hospitalizations and ICU cases are very important. More so than the numbers testing positive. 
 

M8

Yes, or course, hospitalizations are important, however, testing and positive cases are telling also, because they help us all identify where spikes are occurring, and in what demographic.   
 

I do agree that the way that unemployment benefits were calculated is bizarre.   To more than double the weekly benefit seemed like such a over-reach.   Why on earth they didn’t just add a multiplier to the weekly benefit, such that maybe you got a benefit 50% higher than usual, blows my mind.  And now, as you say, some people aren’t incentivized to return to work.  
 

All that said, we have seen restaurants and clubs open, only to close down again because nobody was managing social distancing and wearing of masks, so clearly, in many cases, it wasn’t done correctly.    Many people can’t be trusted to comply even with simple guidelines, like not gathering in large groups at the beach.    All of these missteps do nothing but prolong a situation that PERHAPS could have been brought under control WEEKS ago, thus adversely impacting the economy even further.  

[Milwaukee Eight]

7 minutes ago, Trevoli said:

Yes, or course, hospitalizations are important, however, testing and positive cases are telling also, because they help us all identify where spikes are occurring, and in what demographic.   
 

I do agree that the way that unemployment benefits were calculated is bizarre.   To more than double the weekly benefit seemed like such a over-reach.   Why on earth they didn’t just add a multiplier to the weekly benefit, such that maybe you got a benefit 50% higher than usual, blows my mind.  And now, as you say, some people aren’t incentivized to return to work.  
 

All that said, we have seen restaurants and clubs open, only to close down again because nobody was managing social distancing and wearing of masks, so clearly, in many cases, it wasn’t done correctly.    Many people can’t be trusted to comply even with simple guidelines, like not gathering in large groups at the beach.    All of these missteps do nothing but prolong a situation that PERHAPS could have been brought under control WEEKS ago, thus adversely impacting the economy even further.  

For the most part I agree with you.

 

I do believe people need to wear a mask in many situations. However, being in lockdown is NOT doing anything to cure CV19. One can be in lockdown forever and the first day out get infected. 
 

People below certain ages that typically are Asymptomatic are not doing their part. 
 

M8

[Trevoli]

2 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

For the most part I agree with you.

 

I do believe people need to wear a mask in many situations. However, being in lockdown is NOT doing anything to cure CV19. One can be in lockdown forever and the first day out get infected. 
 

People below certain ages that typically are Asymptomatic are not doing their part. 
 

M8

Agreed.   I don’t believe anybody thinks that being on lockdown (and we’ve been on lockdown in SF Bay Area since mid March) is supposed to CURE covid, but rather, control it, and I do think that MOST people complying with SIP has played a part in “flattening the curve”.  People are being complacent, though, and we are experiencing spikes in many places here in US as a result  My point is, an increase in positive cases, is not due to increased testing.   If a person has the virus, they have it whether or not they have been tested.  Much of the time, a person is asymptomatic, and good for them, but are they spreading it to others without even knowing it, if they aren’t distancing/wearing a mask?   Of course they are.    And unnecessarily prolonging a devastating situation. 

[Milwaukee Eight]

1 hour ago, Trevoli said:

Agreed.   I don’t believe anybody thinks that being on lockdown (and we’ve been on lockdown in SF Bay Area since mid March) is supposed to CURE covid, but rather, control it, and I do think that MOST people complying with SIP has played a part in “flattening the curve”.  People are being complacent, though, and we are experiencing spikes in many places here in US as a result  My point is, an increase in positive cases, is not due to increased testing.   If a person has the virus, they have it whether or not they have been tested.  Much of the time, a person is asymptomatic, and good for them, but are they spreading it to others without even knowing it, if they aren’t distancing/wearing a mask?   Of course they are.    And unnecessarily prolonging a devastating situation. 

I look at this situation in a different way. The positive numbers are a political tool and mean nothing to me. It’s the numbers who are hospitalized, in ICU, and die. 

I personally haven’t seen any data with a drastic increase in hospitalizations, ICU, and deaths. In the winter time, we often have shortage of beds but it is managed. 
 

The more people positive and Asymptomatic, the faster we reach herd immunity. 
 

There are still areas of concern. The long term care facilities are an issue for sure and I believe I saw something that said 80% of deaths are in these facilities along with the elderly. No death is good. Some of these facilities have hospice patients that a near end of life and very susceptible to having issues with CV19. 
 

We rode today to a Restaurant Bar & Grill on a lake with a beach. Place was packed and didn’t see one mask. We pass many farm hand worker camps. People are packed into these places. Almost 50% of the people in most of those camps are positive. 
 

Let’s hope we don’t get a rush on the hospitals. Let’s hope we all come out of this. We plan to cancel our cruise in October before final payment and take the FCC. 
 

Peace

 

M8

Edited June 22, 2020 by Milwaukee Eight