Maybe the CDC is right after all

[PhillyFan33579]

I have been very critical of the way the CDC has treated the  cruise industry both online and verbally with family, friends, neighbors, etc.  But I am starting to think maybe the CDC knows what they are doing since it appears the cruise lines and cruise industry have no idea what they are doing.  CLIA comes out and announces all US cruises are suspended until September 15th, but then today Carnival announces all cruises are cancelled thru September 30th.  When the cruise industry can’t even agree on something as simple as a date, it makes me wonder if the cruise lines have a clue what they are doing? Maybe that’s what the CDC is consistently seeing and therefore has no interest in seeing cruise lines resuming operations any time soon. 

Edited June 22, 2020 by PhillyFan33579

[shof515]

since the CDC had made US crew reparation almost impossible, i think the CDC does not care about ships overall. The CLIA tried their best to work with the CDC to restart sailings and that did not go well which forced them to tell cruise lines to cancel September cruises.

[MsTabbyKats]

1 minute ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I have been very critical of the way the CDC has treated the  cruise industry both online and verbally with family, friends, neighbors, etc.  But I am starting to think maybe the CDC knows what they are doing since it appears the cruise lines and cruise industry have no idea what they are doing.  CLIA comes out and announces all US cruises are suspended until September 15th, but then today Carnival announces all cruises are cancelled thru September 30th.  When the cruise industry can’t even agree on something as simple as a date, it makes me wonder if the cruise lines have a clue what they are doing? Maybe that’s what the CDC is consistently seeing and therefore has no interest in seeing cruise lines resuming operations any time soon. 

The CDC knows what it's doing.  Carnival's objective is to make a profit.  The CDC knows that it's impossible to socially distance on a ship...and one person sneaking the virus on-board can end up with multiple infections...and then those people pass it on...etc.

 

The easiest way to transmit the virus is by casual contact between people....conversations (your spit becomes my spit)....your sneeze...your cough.  My example....the big guy in the back of the elevator has a good loud sneeze.

 

No matter how many people are cleaning....and how much they reduce ship capacity....cruising just won't work in this environment.

 

A bit off topic but related....this is why B'way won't be back for ages.  Not to get into it...but the cast can't socially distance, the orchestra pit can't socially distance, the show can't be profitable at reduced capacity. 

 

I mention this only to say that the CDC isn't picking on the cruise industry.  They're trying to eradicate the disease by isolating it.

 

 

[MsTabbyKats]

6 minutes ago, shof515 said:

since the CDC had made US crew reparation almost impossible, i think the CDC does not care about ships overall. The CLIA tried their best to work with the CDC to restart sailings and that did not go well which forced them to tell cruise lines to cancel September cruises.

Or, you can say the cruiselines haven't figured out how to socially distance people which is why everything is canceled thru Sept.

 

The CDC's jot isn't to care about cruiselines or profits...it's to do what it's name says...Control Disease

[Stick93]

I think it safe to say that the whole world including the CDC and the cruise lines are in uncharted water!  

The safe way may not be the smartest way or the most profitable way. We are learning as we go through it and it changes everyday.
 

This has been a humbling and crushing experience. 

[TigerGalCruiser]

3 minutes ago, MsTabbyKats said:

Or, you can say the cruiselines haven't figured out how to socially distance people which is why everything is canceled thru Sept.

 

The CDC's jot isn't to care about cruiselines or profits...it's to do what it's name says...Control Disease

 

Agreed. Also, cruise lines need to figure out logistics besides the social distancing aspect. You cannon conceivably disinfect an entire ship in the narrow window of time between debarkation and embarkation. We're all hurrying to get off the ship by 10am, and the next set of cruisers come aboard at 11am. You'd need to put a day or two in between sailings. So, if you do a 7 day, the next itinerary would need to sail a day or two later and be a 5 day. Or, you can't sail until the following week. There's just a lot there that needs to be done before it's realistic to sail right now.

[jetsfan58]

What should we expect? We as a Nation and even as a Cruise Critic board can't agree on whether to wear mask or not? This is very serious and complicated. Way too much risk for individual passengers and crew. Keep Praying!! 

[jeremyosborne81]

The biggest obstacle is that the CDC, instead of classifying cruise ships in the same category as airplanes, hotels, and theme parks, which are still operating, classified cruise ships in the same category with prisons and retirement homes, which are thought to be much higher risks.

[thesmiths]

31 minutes ago, MsTabbyKats said:

 the cruiselines haven't figured out how to socially distance people

 

It is not just the cruise lines.

It is Airlines, grocery stores, drug stores, Liquor stores, Lowes, Home Depot,, Wawa... Dunkin Donuts + + + +

 

 

 

 

 

[LMaxwell]

It seems to me the cruiselines are unable or unwilling to comply with CDC requests.  As difficult as they are, and I don't know how they are workable, its up to the cruiselines to submit business plans.  Unfortunately cruising and social distancing are two very mutually exclusive things unless you've got your own boat and do your own thing. A cruise ship is not set up for this kind of thing. 

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I have been very critical of the way the CDC has treated the  cruise industry both online and verbally with family, friends, neighbors, etc.  But I am starting to think maybe the CDC knows what they are doing since it appears the cruise lines and cruise industry have no idea what they are doing.  CLIA comes out and announces all US cruises are suspended until September 15th, but then today Carnival announces all cruises are cancelled thru September 30th.  When the cruise industry can’t even agree on something as simple as a date, it makes me wonder if the cruise lines have a clue what they are doing? Maybe that’s what the CDC is consistently seeing and therefore has no interest in seeing cruise lines resuming operations any time soon. 

While I understand your point, and understand that they are the experts, they are certainly learning with the rest of us.  My entire problem with the CDC (outside of them changing directives and flip flopping more than a couple times) is that their stance on the cruise lines is untenable.  They have not worked with the cruise lines and treated them harsher and at a arms length and totally different than any other industry.

 

In regard to the Carnival stance of adding the 15 days, I think it probably the wisest thing they have done on a long time.  This give them more flexibility and the ability to use the time to adjust to the next set of rule changes.  Clearly, countries and the CDC dramatically delayed repatriation (disgusting performance of ineptitude and lack of passion), so this delay probably influenced their decision as well.

 

Lastly, who know what the heck the CDC is saying.  Without going back to look, I recall 2 (as in one more than one) announcements to the industry since the 100 day stay.  Even the last one did not come from the CDC.  The color coded (really....?????) version for repatriation should have come out at least a months and probably 2 months ago.  Disappointing to say the least.  Their version of show us what you got, vs working together shows lack of respect, business partnership and disregard for the industry as an entity.  

[FLAlaska]

27 minutes ago, rufflesmom said:

i tend to agree with you.  Covid 19 is a VIRUS!!!!  you cannot eradicate it any more than you can eradicate the flu or the common cold.

My opinion, if it matters... Most of this is a liability issue. No one wants to get sued. In this hyper litigious soceity, where everyone sues for everything, companies are protecting themselves.

[jeremyosborne81]

32 minutes ago, rufflesmom said:

i tend to agree with you.  Covid 19 is a VIRUS!!!!  you cannot eradicate it any more than you can eradicate the flu or the common cold.

Can't be eradicated? Like Smallpox?

[LMaxwell]

Just now, jimbo5544 said:

They have not worked with the cruise lines and treated them harsher and at a arms length and totally different than any other industry.

 

I don't think the first part is accurate and the cruise industry is different than other industries; a one size fits all approach won't work. 

[Butterbean1000]

25 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

It seems to me the cruiselines are unable or unwilling to comply with CDC requests.  As difficult as they are, and I don't know how they are workable, its up to the cruiselines to submit business plans.  Unfortunately cruising and social distancing are two very mutually exclusive things unless you've got your own boat and do your own thing. A cruise ship is not set up for this kind of thing. 

I dont think its the cruise line that wasn't willing to comply.  Our cruise was just canceled. But we would have canceled if face masks were mandatory.  Also, it would be extremely difficult to social distance on a cruise ship, half capacity or not.

[beerman2]

3 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

While I understand your point, and understand that they are the experts, they are certainly learning with the rest of us.  My entire problem with the CDC (outside of them changing directives and flip flopping more than a couple times) is that their stance on the cruise lines is untenable.  They have not worked with the cruise lines and treated them harsher and at a arms length and totally different than any other industry.

 

In regard to the Carnival stance of adding the 15 days, I think it probably the wisest thing they have done on a long time.  This give them more flexibility and the ability to use the time to adjust to the next set of rule changes.  Clearly, countries and the CDC dramatically delayed repatriation (disgusting performance of ineptitude and lack of passion), so this delay probably influenced their decision as well.

 

Lastly, who know what the heck the CDC is saying.  Without going back to look, I recall 2 (as in one more than one) announcements to the industry since the 100 day stay.  Even the last one did not come from the CDC.  The color coded (really....?????) version for repatriation should have come out at least a months and probably 2 months ago.  Disappointing to say the least.  Their version of show us what you got, vs working together shows lack of respect, business partnership and disregard for the industry as an entity.  

We've agreed and disagreed on things , just curious how you can be cerained the CDC isn't working with cruise lines.

 

Do you personally know someone in the heiracy of cruise lines sharing that info with you?

 

At this point do you think either the Cruise Lines or CDC are going to devuldge the real facts until ALL agree to them?

 

 

 

 

[jimbo5544]

2 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

We've agreed and disagreed on things , just curious how you can be cerained the CDC isn't working with cruise lines.

 

Do you personally know someone in the heiracy of cruise lines sharing that info with you?

 

At this point do you think either the Cruise Lines or CDC are going to devuldge the real facts until ALL agree to them?

 

 

 

 

Nothing wrong with disagreeing.  I have no inside knowledge on this topic, and basing my opinions on what I have read here and other places.  I am basing the lack of communication on just that, lack of communication.  It is almost like they are doing it purposely, but I do not think that is the case.  When things are this fluid, good communication is key.  Their 100 day order is a prime example.  I base Carnivals lack of response in that they feel it will be attacked.  

 

What is the big secret in not telling everyone, why not communicate it to the world they are working together.  This is a multi billion dollar industry and they are acting like children, thousands of people are losing their jobs and their lack of communication comes across as arrogance.  

[jimbo5544]

39 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

It seems to me the cruiselines are unable or unwilling to comply with CDC requests.  As difficult as they are, and I don't know how they are workable, its up to the cruiselines to submit business plans.  Unfortunately cruising and social distancing are two very mutually exclusive things unless you've got your own boat and do your own thing. A cruise ship is not set up for this kind of thing. 

The only way to solve an issue is to communicate.  If the cruise lines are totally not complying then the CDC should say that.  

[tonit964]

I think one of the biggest issues is people boarding with no symptoms and infecting many. The comedian that collapsed on stage a few days ago said he had no symptoms and yet tested positive and how many did he infect unknowingly. Even a short cruise under these circumstances would be bad in that who would let them dock and debark with an outbreak? Multiply that by however many ships are able to start up. I also don't think the crew will/can enforce mask wearing.

It's a logistical nightmare for sure. Just my opinion.

[shof515]

15 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

We've agreed and disagreed on things , just curious how you can be cerained the CDC isn't working with cruise lines.

Do you personally know someone in the heiracy of cruise lines sharing that info with you?

At this point do you think either the Cruise Lines or CDC are going to devuldge the real facts until ALL agree to them?

not sure about Carnival. i did found this one article that says the CDC is not treating the cruise lines right. it is like the CDC is ignoring all of the plans set forth by the cruise lines and will not approve anything

 

https://cruiseradio.net/scathing-report-accuses-cdc-of-mistreating-cruise-industry/

[beerman2]

3 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Nothing wrong with disagreeing.  I have no inside knowledge on this topic, and basing my opinions on what I have read here and other places.  I am basing the lack of communication on just that, lack of communication.  It is almost like they are doing it purposely, but I do not think that is the case.  When things are this fluid, good communication is key.  Their 100 day order is a prime example.  I base Carnivals lack of response in that they feel it will be attacked.  

 

What is the big secret in not telling everyone, why not communicate it to the world they are working together.  This is a multi billion dollar industry and they are acting like children, thousands of people are losing their jobs and their lack of communication comes across as arrogance.  

I guess like many others Cruise Lines or CDC might have trouble admitting “they” could be wrong, 

Pride/arrogance has a way of doing that.

 

It would be nice if the CDC would come out with a published lists of “what needs to be done “.

 

It certainly may be an unrealistic list or the cruise lines think the “cost factor “ to agree is too much.

 

Wait for it COVID-19 will change again today/tomorrow/next week/next month.

 

And that’s a fact 😂😂😂😂

[jimbo5544]

6 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

I guess like many others Cruise Lines or CDC might have trouble admitting “they” could be wrong, 

Pride/arrogance has a way of doing that.

 

It would be nice if the CDC would come out with a published lists of “what needs to be done “.

 

It certainly may be an unrealistic list or the cruise lines think the “cost factor “ to agree is too much.

 

Wait for it COVID-19 will change again today/tomorrow/next week/next month.

 

And that’s a fact 😂😂😂😂

I just saw an MSC post with their late fall and winter plans saying that they were “working” on their compliance program.  I sense the mandate is so detailed, it would fill more than a couple of multi ring binders....  The only reason I can come up with for the delay.   Agree on the last two lines.

Edited June 22, 2020 by jimbo5544

[jetsfan58]

My opinion only. I read where approximately less than 10% of all US citizens have ever cruised? Carnival remains a corporation that is comprised of a Board of Directors that has a CEO reporting to them. 

 

They are in the business of profitability. It may be unfortunate and hasty, but they will find a way (hopefully safely) to cruise.   

[BlerkOne]

The problem isn't the CDC, WHO, or cruise lines. The problem is the fraction of the American population who refused to follow guidelines, and the growing percentage who are doing the same. Some parts of America may be controlling the virus, but when looking at the big picture, American continues to be a superspreader. Current testing and treatments are a joke with unknown reliability and quality of many. It will be years before a clear winner in the vaccine race will be known, and even then, it is doubtful that it will be 100% effective or will last a lifetime.

 

Most of the rest of the world is clearly ahead of the US in the battle to control the virus. I don't think it will be a stretch in the future for most of the rest of the world to enjoy free travel and America and a few others to be on a quarantine list.

[AmBear]

14 minutes ago, tonit964 said:

I think one of the biggest issues is people boarding with no symptoms and infecting many. The comedian that collapsed on stage a few days ago said he had no symptoms and yet tested positive and how many did he infect unknowingly. Even a short cruise under these circumstances would be bad in that who would let them dock and debark with an outbreak? Multiply that by however many ships are able to start up. I also don't think the crew will/can enforce mask wearing.

It's a logistical nightmare for sure. Just my opinion.

Exactly, and lawsuits would follow, and all cruising would shut down again!

My 2 cents, not worth more,,,🙂

We're in a virus pandemic, testing is at best 70% accurate, there is no safe treatment beyond hoping your body will overcome the virus, and there is no vaccine! Temp checks are a joke!

Whether you think the virus is no big deal doesn't matter, cause the financial/business end is what's making decisions here, and the cruise industry can't afford another debacle like this winter/spring was!

Carnival is fighting off lawsuits now for this!

We love cruising, but just don't see any way it will return this year, maybe until the summer of 2021!

Whenever, we hope to see all healthy and cruising again someday!

Some have mentioned airlines, I agree they get treated better likely because many use airlines for business, not just vacation like cruisers!